Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually by me adding "must" insinuates speculation but with a high probability of being fact.There are Two specific scans in GOTG #49 that strongly allude to it being fact,
yet, I agree, it is speculation in the end cause Marvel hasn't made it concrete.But what else would explain the Fact that,
"LT's only superior is the TOAA" in his bio?Just sayin.
A. Scathan is the Celestial in charge of Approving things.
B. No matter how powerful a comic character is, he's nothing compared to a real person.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
There are several illogical things and yet funny at the same time because somebody actually belives them.
I find Lies illogical.
I find it even funnier if one believes them.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Take this for example :
I said it and what? What about it?
That's a scientific fact.
There's roughly that many drops of water in the ocean,
I stated that numerical fact to put some perspective on how much larger,
Beyonder's Universe was than the Infinite Multiverse of 85.
This study was made by New Hampshire's prestigious Keene State University
and Frostburb State University.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
I [b]really hope I'm not the only one seeing something illogical here. [/B]
I seen lies/deceptions, but I'm not really in the mood to pull those cards.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
I'm not even going to bother to comment on that, since there's no really need for it.
Whatever.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Of course , somebody will probably bring the "different levels of infinity" scan ,
"Somebody" is Mr Master, there, I said it for you.
And those scans were published by MARVEL,
in TWO separate issues.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
which again , even after I've explained what it means ,
The voice of perfect reason speaks again.
Get out of here with this sanctimoniuous babble.
pointandlaugh "even after I've explained what it means"
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
they still don't want to understand and still go by "There are different levels of Omnipotence/Infinity !!11 Marvel established that !!!11".
Correct, I will NEVER go by what you want/wish it to mean.
I will go by what MARVEL the company that creates this fantasy established as facts,
concerning MARVEL Comics!!!
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Next is the fact that Molecule Man doesn't even exist since he has been retconned , yet he is still been used in the vs forum .
True, but I think that's the purpose of stating it's PRE-RETCON MM.
(you know as in, make believe)
Cause in case you didn't notice, none of these characters "exist"
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
The writers were actually intelligent enough and point out the fact that he wasn't that strong, yet he is still used .
He was depowered, and STILL (concerning POST-Retcon MM) the LT states:
"One of the MOST Powerful beings in ALL Creation"
Canon baby!
..................................................................
These so-called "intelligent writers" must've missed that one.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
In fact , it is even illogical to be that strong due to the definition of his power and his range of abilities . Not to mention that even pre-retcon he had been stated to be [b]near Omnipotent . [/B]
In fact, MM the "near omnipotent"
"Owen Reece possessed the greatest potential of all,
and by chance ACHIEVED it.
And Now he IS and KNOWS he is the mightier than All other beings of the Multiverse"
And the Living Tribunal is there!
..................................................................
Uatu on his knees in front of MM the "near omnipotent"
"Stop the Beyonder ... I beg of you"
..................................................................
The Cosmic Hierarchy (the LT included)
"Behold the Molecule Man ... Stand aside let him pass"
..................................................................
That's right, get out the way children, the powerhouse is here!
..................................................................
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Just putting Molecule Man against current Living Tribunal brings certain contradictions such as the fact that current Living Tribunal has been established to not be weaker than Molecule Man during Secret Wars
Really? Where was this stated?
Wonder how you're gonna crop a scan to make this one work.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
while pre-retcon Molecule Man has been established to be the second strongest being , second only to Beyonder thus stronger than the Living Tribunal .
This is true.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Not to mention that during the pre-retcon Beyonder & Molecule Man era Living Tribunal was overseeing only one Multiverse .
That one Multiverse was all of canon Marvel.
If you can find a scan that states the LT's power increased
as the Multiverse expanded, you may have something.
Good luck.
..................................................................
On another note,
I've told you before, when you try to insult me,
you're gonna have fire rain on you.
So in order to avoid this tribulation, be respectful
and make a point without being snide and reviling in your not so well cloaked manner.
Peace and love to all true debaters that discuss without derogatory gibberish. 🙂
Originally posted by King Kandy
I don't see how those scans "Allude" to anything other then:A. Scathan is the Celestial in charge of Approving things.
B. No matter how powerful a comic character is, he's nothing compared to a real person.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually by me adding "must" insinuates speculation but with a high probability of being fact.There are Two specific scans in GOTG #49 that strongly allude to it being fact,
yet, I agree, it is speculation in the end cause Marvel hasn't made it concrete.But what else would explain the Fact that,
"LT's only superior is the TOAA" in his bio?Just sayin.
Take it as you will.
(excerpt from the official Marvel handbook 2007)
"The Living Tribunal's ONLY superior is TOAA"
..................................................................................
A. As a Celestial, Scathan should be a joke to the LT.
B. "A real person"? (as in Scathan?)
I don't see, how you can take a scan saying Scathan is the "approver" and another saying power is meaningless beyond the level of the Abstracts, and turn it into "Scathan is an agent of TOAA".
It's pure madness, to take those scans as meaning something other then what they say: That Scathan is the Approver of the Celestials, and that Real people are infinitly above Comic Characters.
I find Lies illogical.I find it even funnier if one believes them.
Lies ?
So you're just pulling this out of nowhere , practically starting your reply with an insult ?
I said it and what? What about it?That's a scientific fact.
There's roughly that many drops of water in the ocean,
I stated that numerical fact to put some perspective on how much larger,
Beyonder's Universe was than the Infinite Multiverse of 85.This study was made by New Hampshire's prestigious Keene State University
and Frostburb State University.
I seen lies/deceptions, but I'm not really in the mood to pull those cards.
"Somebody" is Mr Master, there, I said it for you.And those scans were published by MARVEL,
in TWO separate issues.
The voice of perfect reason speaks again.Get out of here with this sanctimoniuous babble.
"even after I've explained what it means"
Correct, I will NEVER go by what you want/wish it to mean.I will go by what MARVEL the company that creates this fantasy established as facts,
concerning MARVEL Comics!!!
You seem to have a difficulty in understanding what other people are trying to say and go by your own view , if it's either correct or incorrect .
You also seem to have an inability to debate civilized and resort to insulting and attempts to discredit me .
And then , you tell me that I'm the one who can't have a civilized coversation and such . That's called hypocrisy .
Due to your inability or just simply not wanting to view anybody else's point and take your opinion as granted , I'm going to explain this to you in the most simple way .
An infinity can be greater than one infinity only if the former one is contained within the first infinity . An example I will use is the one I've used many times to you , with the fundamental forces of the Universe. If characters A and B have infinite control over Electromagnetism and Gravity respectivly , yet character C has infinite control over all the four fundamental forces of the Universe then Character C > Characters A and B because Character C contains both of them + more .
By Omnipotence , there could be only one thing . All encompassing . Infinite control over all areas , not just a certain area . That's why an Omnipotent being can't be surpassed because there is nothing that surpasses Omnipotence . It is by definition unsurpassable .
While in the context of what we are talking , Main Multiverse and Beyonder's Universe , neither one infinity contained in another nor the second one doesn't apply . Here we are talking about how large the Beyonder Universe in comparison to the Marvel Multiverse. If the Multiverse is infinite , then how can something be larger than it , in this case , the Beyonder Universe ? Do you find that logical ? I'm not really surprised if you do .
True, but I think that's the purpose of stating it's PRE-RETCON MM.
(you know as in, make believe)Cause in case you didn't notice, none of these characters "exist"
Do you find it logical to use a character that has been established to never has been that powerfull in a vs forum ?
He was depowered, and STILL (concerning POST-Retcon MM) the LT states:"One of the MOST Powerful beings in ALL Creation"
Canon baby!
..................................................................These so-called "intelligent writers" must've missed that one.
And this ... shows what ?
Did this scans have any purpose ?
In fact, MM the "near omnipotent""Owen Reece possessed the greatest potential of all,
and by chance ACHIEVED it.
And Now he IS and KNOWS he is the mightier than All other beings of the Multiverse"And the Living Tribunal is there!
..................................................................Uatu on his knees in front of MM the "near omnipotent"
"Stop the Beyonder ... I beg of you"
..................................................................
The Cosmic Hierarchy (the LT included)
"Behold the Molecule Man ... Stand aside let him pass"
..................................................................
That's right, get out the way children, the powerhouse is here!
..................................................................
Again , what exactly does this have to do with what I just posted ?
Comprehend what I post , and then reply . Posting scans over and over again without any purpose doesn't help your case at all and doesn't make you any credible.
Really? Where was this stated?Wonder how you're gonna crop a scan to make this one work.
I can't belive you're actually asking me this question . It again shows your inability to read other's posts . Has it not been retconned that Molecule Man was never stronger than LT during Secret Wars ? Yes . Does that mean that Lt was always stronger than Molecule Man ? Yes . Did I just say that in my post ? Yes .
That one Multiverse was all of canon Marvel.If you can find a scan that states the LT's power increased
as the Multiverse expanded, you may have something.Good luck.
..................................................................
On another note,
I've told you before, when you try to insult me,
you're gonna have fire rain on you.So in order to avoid this tribulation, be respectful
and make a point without being snide and reviling in your not so well cloaked manner.Peace and love to all true debaters that discuss without derogatory gibberish. smile
I've insulted you ? No , I was just pointing out how illogical claims such as an infinite being bigger than another is . That's not an insult , an insult is what you've just done most of your post .
Seriously , this is like I'm talking to a brick wall .
You don't see the contradiction in using a pre-retcon character against a post-retcon one .
You have a comprehending problem .
Everybody got what is the contradiction that appears when comparing Pre-Retcon molecule man to the current Lt yet you can't .
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Lies ?So you're just pulling this out of nowhere , practically starting your reply with an insult ?
You vainly attempted to insult me from the get,
so I obliged.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
You seem to have a difficulty in understanding what other people are trying to say and go by your own view , if it's either correct or incorrect .
Your view is meaningless (concerning Marvel)
when it contradicts something Marvel has established as Fact.
If Marvel says there are different levels of Infinity ... then let it be.
Don't come out telling me, "I already explained it"
(like you know better)
You're simply trying to challenge a simple statement.
That being ... Marvel has different levels of Infinity (On Panel) in TWO separate issues.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
You also seem to have an inability to debate civilized and resort to insulting and attempts to discredit me .
You been popping garbage for a while now,
no more mister nice guy.
Respect = respect, it's not a one way street.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
And then , you tell me that I'm the one who can't have a civilized coversation and such . That's called hypocrisy .
You have a way of seeing things with a one track mind.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Due to your inability or just simply not wanting to view anybody else's point and take your opinion as granted , I'm going to explain this to you in the most simple way .
here we go again. 😆
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
An [b]infinity can be greater than one infinity only if the former one is contained within the first infinity . An example I will use is the one I've used many times to you , with the fundamental forces of the Universe. If characters A and B have infinite control over Electromagnetism and Gravity respectivly , yet character C has infinite control over all the four fundamental forces of the Universe then Character C > Characters A and B because Character C contains both of them + more .
By Omnipotence , there could be only one thing . All encompassing . Infinite control over all areas , not just a certain area . That's why an Omnipotent being can't be surpassed because there is nothing that surpasses Omnipotence . It is by definition unsurpassable .While in the context of what we are talking , Main Multiverse and Beyonder's Universe , neither one infinity contained in another nor the second one doesn't apply . Here we are talking about how large the Beyonder Universe in comparison to the Marvel Multiverse. If the Multiverse is infinite , then how can something be larger than it , in this case , the Beyonder Universe ? Do you find that logical ? I'm not really surprised if you do . [/B]
How this debunks the On Panel facts is sensible only in your mind.
Marvel says there are different levels of Infinity/Omnipotence,
so that's what it is.
Your logic doesn't mean anything, right or wrong.
This is comic books, specifically concerning Marvel in this moment.
All that matters is what Marvel says, concerning THEIR Comics.
So peace.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Do you find it logical to use a character that has been established to [b]never has been that powerfull in a vs forum ? [/B]
Yea, if he's being introduced as his PAST self.
It's all make believe and hypothetical, so yea,
I don't have a problem with someone bring in a Pre-retcon cat,
so long as it's stated in the heading of the thread.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
And this ... shows what ?Did this scans have any purpose ?
Again , what exactly does this have to do with what I just posted ?
It proves you were wrong about MM's status in his pre-era.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
[b]Comprehend what I post , and then reply . Posting scans over and over again without any purpose doesn't help your case at all and doesn't make you any credible. [/B]
I don't care what you post.
I'm only responding to you because of your opening insult in the prior page.
You been doing it across several threads, enough is enough.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
I can't belive you're actually asking me this question . It again shows your inability to read other's posts . Has it not been retconned that Molecule Man was never stronger than LT during Secret Wars ? Yes . Does that mean that Lt was always stronger than Molecule Man ? Yes . Did I just say that in my post ? Yes .
Nah,
the retcon was depowering MM.
It has NEVER been stated that MM or Beyonder were weaker in the PRE era.
Now AFTER the Pre era? Yes, it has been established they BECAME weaker.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
I've insulted you ? No , I was just pointing out how illogical claims such as an infinite being bigger than another is . That's not an insult , an insult is what you've just done most of your post .
Yea you did insult me.
If you don't realized that, you have a problem.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Seriously , this is like I'm talking to a brick wall .
How do you think I feel talking to a proven liar.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
You don't see the contradiction in using a pre-retcon character against a post-retcon one .
MAKE BELIEVE dude!
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
You have a comprehending problem .
It - is - a - hypothetical - question!
Comprehend that.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Everybody got what is the contradiction that appears when comparing Pre-Retcon molecule man to the current Lt yet you can't .
So long as it's stated in the title of the thread,
I could care less about having some fun.
Now, again,
make your point respectfully, and perhaps we'll find a middle where we can be peers.
But don't quote part of my post, and state it's funny like I'm a joke.
And don't state, "somebody is going to bring up different levels of Infinity"
and make a snide remark after it.
Or "I already explained it and he doesn't comprehend"
(as though you're the lord of interpretation)
That's a pompous & sanctimonious remark.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I think you made up this Scathan/TOAA thing because you didn't want to admit, that Scathan was just plain stronger then LT.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually by me adding "must" insinuates speculation but with a high probability of being fact.There are Two specific scans in GOTG #49 that strongly allude to it being fact,
yet, I agree, it is speculation in the end cause Marvel hasn't made it concrete.But what else would explain the Fact that,
"LT's only superior is the TOAA" in his bio?Just sayin.
I'm not going to try and read your mind (as you're trying with mine)
as to why you made up,
"the Multiverse and the Omniverse are the same essence"
or "the Multiverse and the Omniverse are two sides of the same coin"
Were you trying to prove Nvr wrong when you knew he was right?
Were you just wrong, and didn't enjoy that?
Were you mis-informed?
I don't know, but that isn't the purpose of the thread, so I don't care.
(And even if it was, I wouldn't insert my personal feelings)
I rather just post the facts, and if you accept fine, if you reject, fine.
Peace and love yall, gotta work out now.
Originally posted by King Kandy
I said all of that, just to see how long it would take for Nvr to give up on arguing with me.
I'll believe you, instead of prying your mind for the truth.
Originally posted by King Kandy
You say that you post only fact, but apparently that doesn't extend to this situation...
You're free to push as much BS as you want as long as it makes Scathan seem weaker.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually by me adding "must" insinuates speculation but with a high probability of being fact.There are Two specific scans in GOTG #49 that strongly allude to it being fact,
yet, I agree, it is speculation in the end cause Marvel hasn't made it concrete.But what else would explain the Fact that,
"LT's only superior is the TOAA" in his bio?Just sayin.
Third time around is usually a charm.
"BS?" (Hope the big bold text will scratch that)
..........................................................................
Every issue that the LT has appeared in (Post MM/Beyonder) has stated
he's the most powerful Entity in Marvel second only to TOAA. (ON Panel)
Every relevant Bio that has ever mentioned the LT has stated,
he's the most powerful Entity in Marvel second only to TOAA.
(HOTI) is Toaa/god's power withIN the Omniverse so that doesn't count.
ONE (as in a Single) issue appears where a Celestial is depicted
as being more powerful than Protege (who copied the LT's power)
and about 20 Years of established facts are overwritten?
I have to disagree.
Celestials were created by Eternity with a thought.
Eternity is less than nothing to the LT.
"BS?"
If Celestials are insects to the LT,
(and the LT's 2006 Bio clearly states the "LT's ONLY superior is TOAA" ...)
What other explanation is there for the PIS of that Single GOTG issue?
This is where my speculation comes from homie, as I stated in big bold text.
(Like THREE times in this thread alone)
Besides the allusion in the issue itself (YES IMO)
Originally posted by Mr Master
I'll believe you, instead of prying your mind for the truth.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Every issue that the LT has appeared in (Post MM/Beyonder) has stated
he's the most powerful Entity in Marvel second only to TOAA. (ON Panel)
I fact, I'd like you to find me one where he IS.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Every relevant Bio that has ever mentioned the LT has stated,
he's the most powerful Entity in Marvel second only to TOAA.
Originally posted by Mr Master
(HOTI) is Toaa/god's power withIN the Omniverse so that doesn't count.
Originally posted by Mr Master
ONE (as in a Single) issue appears where a Celestial is depicted
as being more powerful than Protege (who copied the LT's power)
and about 20 Years of established facts are overwritten?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Celestials were created by Eternity with a thought.
Eternity is less than nothing to the LT.
Originally posted by Mr Master
If Celestials are insects to the LT,
(and the LT's 2006 Bio clearly states the "LT's ONLY superior is TOAA" ...)
Originally posted by Mr Master
What other explanation is there for the PIS of that Single GOTG issue?
Originally posted by Mr Master
This is where my speculation comes from homie, as I stated in big bold text.
(Like THREE times in this thread alone)
Besides the allusion in the issue itself (YES IMO)
