Top 5 Most Powerful Mutants

Originally posted by Xplosive
MJJ became Universe, but WPOTC controlled it, so greater feat for WPOTC.
But if we take their top feat, MJJ feat is greater than any Phoenix feat.

Phoenix has never repaired/controlled a Whole Universe.

Phoenix Repaired a Timeline, which is FAR smaller than a Whole Universe.

Phoenix wished it could affect the 616 Universe like MJJ did.

Originally posted by Xplosive
But, if they would both face each other and battle in probably titanic, potentially Omniversal battle, I think WPOTC should win.

"Omniversal battle?"

Phoenix can't even produce a Multiversal feat,
and you're throwing her into the Omniverse?

MJJ stomps Phoenix every which way from Sunday.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Jean telekinetically re-creating her universe atom by atom whilst holding it in the palm of her hand, just after warping its entire future timeline?

"re-creating her universe?"

Actually all Jean did was Repair a Timeline (Reality 15104)
Reality 15104 is a Future Timeline that's set 150 years in a Future where only X-Men exist.

Timelines are "baby" or "tiny" universes.
....................................................................................

And it was the Alternate Future of Timeline/Reality 15104 Jean severed:

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104"

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)
....................................................................................

That's what Jean held in her hand,
a "Baby" Reality that Lost it's Parents:

It's Parent Reality of course is
the real Whole Universe this tiny Timeline is connected to,
that being ... 616.
....................................................................................

And again, Timelines are "baby" or "tiny" universes:

It's impossible for a Future Timeline
to occupy the same space as the Present it's connected to.

This is why all Timelines connected to 616 (whether it's the Past or Future)
are situated in their own separate mini Realities:

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appalte.htm
....................................................................................

Here's Uatu holding a Timeline/Universe in his hands JUST LIKE Jean:

This is Reality/Timeline 1602, which is a PAST Timeline of 616
just like Reality 15104 (what Jean held in her hands) is a FUTURE Timeline of 616.

Reality 1602 was nearly erased from existence:

"the sound of a Universe screaming in pain"

Instead, the Watchers Repaired Reality/Timeline 1602 and gave it to Uatu as a gift:

"I place the High Tribunal's gift inside me; A Tiny Universe"
....................................................................................

In the end it's what?

A Tiny Universe" just like Reality/Timeline 15104.
....................................................................................

Let's also not forget that Uatu actually held this Reality/Timeline withIN Reality,

while Jean needed to be withIN the WHR in order to Repair Reality/Timeline 15104:
....................................................................................

On top of that, Jean Never altered or Remade Reality/Timeline 15104

It was Scott's decision to stay with the X-Men and Emma that Altered it,
it was also Scott's decision to quit,
that diverged Reality 15104 in this special Future where only X-Men exist.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Just let Jaspers become that universe, and Jean would casually destroy it with a thought, and re-animate Jaspers into a Sun, and then proceed to eat it.

😆

Phoenix is a joke next to Jaspers.

Jaspers became the entire 616 Universe btw.

Jean has only destroyed an entire Universe Once,

in a "WHAT If" issue. (or an Alternate Reality)

Phoenix has never remade a single Universe.
Phoenix has never created a single Universe.
Phoenix has never destroyed, remade or re-created 616.
Phoenix has never done anything on a Multiversal scale.

I can't wait for Endsong's inevitable retcon out of existence.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix can't even produce a Multiversal feat,
and you're throwing her into the Omniverse?

When did exactly MJJ performed an Omniversal feat?
It was only said by Merlin.
He didn't do anything as you claimed in your Hierarchy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
MJJ stomps Phoenix every which way from Sunday.

You wish.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix is a joke next to Jaspers.

Jaspers became the entire 616 Universe btw.

Jean has only destroyed an entire Universe Once

And did it quite easily. She would have done also the same quite easily to MJJ when he became entire Universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix has never remade a single Universe.
Phoenix has never created a single Universe.
Phoenix has never destroyed, remade or re-created 616.
Phoenix has never done anything on a Multiversal scale.

How exactly Pheonix didn't anything on a Multiversal scale? And Phoenix was the one she stopped M'Kraan Crystal (the power to destroy all Universes in existence), far more than a Universal power.

I just cannot see, if Marvel would write the battle, that would let MJJ come out victories.

I think, if Marvel would write a battle between MJJ and WPOTC that WPOTC would crush him.

Mr Master, you're mad.

First off, you appear to be mixing up different concepts here (time and matter). A timeline essentially encompasses an entire universe. Severing the timeline severs all that the timeline encompasses, which would include the universe. You keep on saying things like "a timeline is much smaller than a universe" which is completely nonsensical. Time is not matter. It doesn't have physical size or mass. As I said, you're mad.

Secondly, Jean never altered or remade the timeline?

Explain the panel above your second scan (which you conveniently left out), then, where she describes how she restructures the universe atom by atom.

Thirdly, Jean's never done anything on a Multiversal scale? Are we forgetting how she was able to stop the M'Kraan Crystal, an object with the power to wipe out the entire Omniverse? Guess we have, moron. Even still, Jaspers hasn't actually ever displayed anything on a Multiversal scale. Best he's done was warp himself into his universe. BFD! Jean's displayed the power to re-create a universe: a feat far greater than Jaspers' greatest.

Lastly: you're an idiot. Jean's directly stated as being the Ultimate Mutation, yet you'd somehow attempt to deny her position at the top of the mutant hierarchy? Jasper's feats are far below her's, and there's nothing to suggest he's even on the same level. Jean is his firm superior.

Originally posted by Mr Master
3. Mad Jim Jaspers of Earth 616
(Earth 238 Jaspers was weaker, and he made his one Universe)

According to Merlin, if this madman was not stopped, "the entire OMNI-VERSE would have fallen into Chaos"

That is not an Omniversal feat.

Oh boy here we go

Jaspers has alot of feats that could have happened, lol

Originally posted by Xplosive
That is not an Omniversal feat.

Why is this not an omniversal feat but Phoenix stopping the M'Kraan crystal (which she had help doing, by the way) considered omniversal when it never destroyed the omniverse?

Originally posted by celestialdemon
Why is this not an omniversal feat but Phoenix stopping the M'Kraan crystal (which she had help doing, by the way) considered omniversal when it never destroyed the omniverse?

Look, I thought on that and gave that comparison, because Mr Master gave MJJ because of words on Omniversal scale, but not on feats and his hierarchy is based not on theory, but on feats, while MJJ gave no Omniversal feat.
Could MJJ powers be on Omniversal scale, probably. But we also know M'Kraan crystal is on that level. So if Mr Master gave that, we can also say for Phoenix.
Phoenix actually stopped an Omniversal power, MJJ didn't do anything with Omniversal scale.

And that even wasn't WPOTC. Maybe WPOTC didn't do such feat as stopping M'Kraan Crystal, but we know WPOTC is the Phoenix most powerful incarnation.

Then Mr Master also comes and says that Phoenix can't even produce a Multiversal feat. WTF
Phoenix also projected a stone pillar across the multiverse.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Look, I thought on that and gave that comparison, because Mr Master gave MJJ because of words on Omniversal scale, but not on feats and his hierarchy is based not on theory, but on feats, while MJJ gave no Omniversal feat.
Could MJJ powers be on Omniversal scale, probably. But we also know M'Kraan crystal is on that level. So if Mr Master gave that, we can also say for Phoenix.
Phoenix actually stopped an Omniversal power, MJJ didn't do anything with Omniversal scale.

And that even wasn't WPOTC. Maybe WPOTC didn't do such feat as stopping M'Kraan Crystal, but we know WPOTC is the Phoenix most powerful incarnation.

Then Mr Master also comes and says that Phoenix can't even produce a Multiversal feat. WTF
Phoenix also projected a stone pillar across the multiverse.

You know the M'Kraan crystal can destroy the omniverse? Where's your proof? No statements either. The actual feat.

My vote goes

Mad Jim Jaspers
White Phoenix of the Crown
Scarlet Witch (HoM)
Franklin Richards
Shaman X-Man

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Mr Master, you're mad.

That's what they say about all geniuses. lol.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
First off, you appear to be mixing up different concepts here (time and matter). A timeline essentially encompasses an entire universe. Severing the timeline severs all that the timeline encompasses, which would include the universe. You keep on saying things like "a timeline is much smaller than a universe" which is completely nonsensical. Time is not matter. It doesn't have physical size or mass.

As I said, you're mad.

In Marvel! ... Timelines are "Tiny" or "Baby" Universes.
Like all Universes when first born.

Or were you under the impression
that the Universe has been the same size since its conception?

Nah friend, Universes begin as babies, as stated by Reed:

And Reed is speaking about Full blown Universes to be, not Timelines.
..........................................................................................................

So naturally Timelines, occupying only a moment in a Universe's infinite timespan,
are significantly smaller by comparison.

This is why Uatu was able to do the same thing with Reality 311:

"I place the High Tribunal's gift inside me; A Tiny Universe"

Reality 311 (Uatu held in hands) is basically the year 1602 in 616's Past,

just like Reality 15104 is like the year 2154 in 616's Future.
..........................................................................................................

And Divergent Universes as retarded as their existence may be,
still fits in nicely with the notion that Reality 15104 being 150 Years old,
had to have been a "tiny" Reality.

The scene clearly depicts this in the statement:

"It lost its Parents when unity broke out across the Megasystems"

This is clearly suggesting this is a "baby" Reality.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Secondly, Jean never altered or remade the timeline?

Explain the panel above your second scan (which you conveniently left out), then, where she describes how she restructures the universe atom by atom.

Jean never said she restructured anything.

"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training,
NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."
..........................................................................................................

"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms?".......

of WHAT Atoms? (where is Jean saying she restructured a Universe?)

You say she re-structured Timeline/Reality 15104

I say she Repaired Timeline/Reality 15104

So let's see the previous page that leads to that panel
where Jean atomically Repairs Reality 15104 within the WHR:

Here Phoenix says,

"Some kind of Bacteria Colony gone rogue ...
I had to Amputate the whole Future"

Jean is told, "Phoenix disinfection Successful"
..........................................................................................................

So Jean amputated the Future of Reality 15104

Reality 15104 was damaged because of this, here is that scene:

Phoenix asks, "Is this the Future?"

It tells her, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it"
..........................................................................................................

The PF consciousness says,

"No, Turn around, No End yet, there, Turn, Here before always, HOSPITAL White Hot"

This is actually the process taking place of a FUTURE Timeline being Repaired,

The "Claw" takes the Future into the "HOSPITAL, White Hot Room"

As You Can SEE, around the Pink Crystal Power is Flowing,

that's Phoenix REPAIRING the Future Timeline telekinetically at the atomic level!
..........................................................................................................

So I guess you'l agree Jean didn't restructure any Universe,
Jean only Repaired that Alternate Timeline/Reality 15104.
and Jean did it while in the HOSPITAL for Universes (White Hot Room)

..........................................................................................................

Can Phoenix hold a Timeline outside the WHR?

I never seen it happen, and the "Here comes Tomorrow" bio clearly states,
that Jean went to the WHR to heal/Repair.

"Shifting herself into the PF's Home Dimension,
Jean was able to heal the wounded orphan universe"
..........................................................................................................

This is hilarious, I just noticed Jean didn't even heal the Universe atomically at any time.

She simply repaired the Alternate Future of Reality 15104,
as for 15104 itself,
that was healed when Jean forced Scott to stay with Emma & the X-Men.

So in truth, it was Scott's decision that healed the Universe, not Phoenix.
Phoenix participated indirectly no doubt.

But the power of the Divergence, and its Alteration,
all laid within the mind of Scott Summers.

That's this part:

Grant Morrison made it very clear HOW Phoenix Replaced the Future,

(by going to the Past and CHANGING Scotts's Mind about Emma)

(excerpt from the Questionnaires addressed to the Writers, last page New X-Men #155)

Just like in the Comic book, which anyone can see as plain as day.

She actually went to the past and forced Scott to be with Emma:

So INSTEAD of THIS Ending:

We NOW have THIS Ending:

In order to PREVENT the events of "Here Comes Tomorrow"
..........................................................................................................

So what are we left with?

Jean didn't create Reality 15104.
Jean didn't re-create Reality 15104.
Jean didn't remake/restructure Reality 15104.

Jean Repaired the Alternate Future of Reality 15104 withIN the WHR.

Jean mind raped Scott in Present 616,
forcing him to stay with the X-Men & Emma and to live.
Because of Scott's decision, Reality 15104 was healed.
(Jean was obviously involved but INDIRECTLY)

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Thirdly, Jean's never done anything on a Multiversal scale?

That's correct.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Are we forgetting how she was able to stop the M'Kraan Crystal,
an object with the power to wipe out the entire Omniverse?

Guess we have, moron.

Only Phoenix never stopped the Mkraan Crystal,
what are you, getting all your mis-information from the respect thread?

In fact, Phoenix was getting absorbed by the N-Galaxy within the Crystal:

With the Life-Force of ALL the X-Men she Anchors herself to Reality, to avoid being ABSORBED:

..........................................................................................................

The Neutron Galaxy (withIn the Crystal) is what implodes the Universe:

This N-Galaxy is HELD in Check by a Series of Interlocking Stasis Fields:

"Phoenix flew into the Energy Matrix And,
with the X-MEN'S HELP,
knitted the Fields back together again"
..........................................................................................................

Jean never stopped the N-Galaxy like I said,
the N-Galaxy can only be stopped by the Stasis Fields (or Energy Lattice)

This is why THIS was Jean's ONLY option in stopping the N-Galaxy.

Jean did actually try at first to repair the Stasis Fields (or Energy Lattice)

"But it's NOWHERE NEAR good enough"

and again,

Phoenix does NOT "contain" the power of the N-Galaxy that does the destroying:

"a Network of interlocking Stasis Fields NEUTRALIZES the power of the N-Galaxy"...

she was only able to knit the interlocking Stasis Fields back together

Phoenix even says their,
"ONLY Hope is to Knit the Lattice Back Together BEFORE it PASSES the Point of No Return"
..........................................................................................................

Well, on top of all this,

Jean couldn't even Repair or "RE-KNIT" the Stasis Fields (or Energy Lattice)
without the HELP of ALL the other X-Men plus Corsair:

"the Patterns of her life of the X-Men's LIVES, BECOME ONE with the Lattice"

"For ALL Her awesome Power, She CAN'T DO IT ALONE"

"And then suddenly", The SPIRITS of the X-MEN are WITH HER,
GIVING of Themselves as Storm and Corsair GAVE"
..........................................................................................................

SO according to the ISSUE itself, Straight from the WRITER'S Mouth.

Xavier, Colossus, Wolverine, Korsair, Banshee, Cycolps, Storm, and Nightcrawler, ALL GAVE their LIFE-FORCE to HELP Jean Knit the Lattice Back Together.

After the job is done, Even with the HELP of ALL the X-Men,

Phoenix FALLS UNCONSCIOUS from Exhaustion:

Nice try, on giving Phoenix all the credit ...

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Even still, Jaspers hasn't actually ever displayed anything on a Multiversal scale.

Actually Cobweb saw a definitive Future where Jaspers collapsed the entire Omniverse:

Had Jasper not been stopped by his plot device (the Fury)
This Future would have definitely come to pass.

This feat is just as valid as Jean in her Futuristic feat.
Both technically never came to fruition because of alterations in the Present.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Best he's done was warp himself into his universe. BFD!

I wouldn't say that.

I think being more powerful than Merlyn speaks volumes:

"If that World (Reality 238)
had not been in the grip of a Reality-Storm that thwarted even my abilities"

(And that's Jaspers 238 Merlyn is talking about so go figure)

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Actually

Jean's displayed the power to re-create a universe: a feat far greater than Jaspers' greatest.

Keep telling yourself that.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Lastly: you're an idiot.

Third insult ... nice, I managed to put up with three direct insults and didn't react once.

go, Mr M.

Originally posted by nmensfinest
Jean's directly stated as being the Ultimate Mutation, yet you'd somehow attempt to deny her position at the top of the mutant hierarchy? Jasper's feats are far below her's, and there's nothing to suggest he's even on the same level. Jean is his firm superior.

Jaspers >>> Phoenix

Jaspers stomps Phoenix 10/10

It doesn't matter, this man beats them all.

galan_beyonder

Originally posted by Mr Master

[quote]quote: (post)
Originally posted by nmensfinest
Lastly: you're an idiot.

Third insult ... nice, I managed to put up with three direct insults and didn't react once.

go, Mr M.
[/QUOTE]

Noted. And well done Mr. M. Besides...

nmensfinest, there is no reason to insult people over comic books.
this is supposed to be FUN.

Originally posted by Horrificus

Noted. And well done Mr. M.

nmensfinest, there i no reason to insult people over comic books.
this is supposed to be FUN.

No you're stupid!!!!!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No you're stupid!!!!!

Well, that is besides the point!

WPOTC crushes MJJ.