Top 5 Most Powerful Mutants

Originally posted by Raoul

no, it was 616 right up until she decided to fix it, then reset time,
forcing those years in between to become 15104...

...............................................................

"Here Comes Tomorrow" (Reality 15104 began in issue#150)

(excerpt from the official "Here Comes Tomorrow" bio)

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Here's the On Panel verification:

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Jean dies on page 30 of New-Xmen #150

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Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - and 150 YEARS have passed (funny) we are in Reality 15104:

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Page 32 of New-Xmen #150 - There's Jean/Phoenix sleeping in her Cosmic Egg:

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Page 01 in New X-Men #151 - starts at 150 Years in the Future (Reality 15104)

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Originally posted by Raoul

umm, no, imo...

it was 616 when jean died, it was 616 when scott left, and it was 616 up until jean woke the hell up and realised that scott was the key, so she went back, manipulated him into staying, thereby relegating those years in between to being 15104...

are those years in between considered 15104? sure, but only after jean's reset, they were 616 right up until she decided to manipulate scott, so its still a manipulation of 616...

Jean amputated the Future of Reality 15104, not of 616:

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future ... OF ... Reality - 15104"

...............................................................

On Panel verification:

That's Jean in issue #154 amputating 15104's Future.

So my quetion is,
how you figure she created 15104 in issue #154,
when 15104 had been created way back in issue #150?

Originally posted by Mr Master
[BScott decides to quit: (THIS CREATED Reality 15104 NOT Phoenix)

[/B]

This is wghat I mean about posting your interpritations of scans and a lack of understanding of temporal mechanics.

From X-Men Alpha up until X-Men Omega, that Age of apocalypse reality WAS 616.

Just because its Earth-295 NOW doesn't change the fact that it WAS 6161 at the time.

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Yea, the instant Scott made his decision:

...............................................................

Page 19 in New X-Men #151 ... 150 Years Earlier on Earth 616:

...............................................................

Scott decides to quit: (THIS CREATED Reality 15104 NOT Phoenix)

...............................................................

DEEP in issue #154:

Phoenix intervenes by reaching into this moment 150 Years ago on 616 and changes Scott's mind:

"Live Scott"

...............................................................

Scotts decision not only Created Reality 15104 ... but it also Altered that possible Future:

(Phoenix did manipulate Scott into Altering the Future,

but Scott Created Reality 15104 on his own through a Decision,
likewise, Scott altered 15104 with another decision:

But prior to that moment, 15104 was 616, until Jean messed with time. That made it a divergent reality, not Scott's initial decision. Changing the decision changed 616 and made the decision where he chose to leave AN ALTERNATE REALITY.

Basic temporal paradox. Easily understood by most sci-fi (especially Star Trek) fans.

Originally posted by Mr Master
DEEP in issue #154:

Phoenix intervenes by reaching into this moment 150 Years ago on 616 and changes Scott's mind:

"Live Scott"

So she DID change 616 by changing Scott's mind, and that IS 616 she's holding.

So she DID alter the past.. and THAT is what gave the designation 15104 to the timeline BEFORE she went back in time to change it.

If she had NOT reached into the past, and changed scotts mind, what do YOU think would have happened?

616 scott would have left and 616 would have had the sublime infection and all that.

phoenix altered the past by manipulating the events of the past.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
But prior to that moment, 15104 was 616, until Jean messed with time. That made it a divergent reality, not Scott's initial decision. Changing the decision changed 616 and made the decision where he chose to leave AN ALTERNATE REALITY.

Basic temporal paradox. Easily understood by most sci-fi (especially Star Trek) fans.

$%*#ing temporal mechanics...

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

But prior to that moment, 15104 was 616, until Jean messed with time.
That made it a divergent reality, not Scott's initial decision.
Changing the decision changed 616
and made the decision where he chose to leave AN ALTERNATE REALITY.

This is why AGAIN!

The Here Comes Tomorrow bios clearly sates,
that Reality 15104 was created in issue #150:

"Here Comes Tomorrow" (Reality 15104 began in issue#150)

...............................................................................

Due to Scott's decision.

...............................................................................

Jean messed with Scott's mind at the end of issue #154:

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This is all confirmed by Grant Morrison:

(excerpt from the Questionnaires addressed to the Writers, last page New X-Men #155)

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Basic temporal paradox. Easily understood by most sci-fi (especially Star Trek) fans.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
But prior to that moment, 15104 was 616, until Jean messed with time. That made it a divergent reality, not Scott's initial decision. Changing the decision changed 616 and made the decision where he chose to leave AN ALTERNATE REALITY.

Basic temporal paradox. Easily understood by most sci-fi (especially Star Trek) fans.

So wouldn't that mean that the real future of 616 is the Sublime Future since 15104 would be the future after Jean came back to life and made the change?

Originally posted by illadelph12

$%*#ing temporal mechanics...

I'll reply to Raoul, and Trick,
since they're being honest in their lack of knowledge concerning this particular story,
but the other is just here to oppose on panel facts, corroborated in it's own Bio,
with excuses stated NO WHERE in Marvel comics.

He's pulled me into that dance before, but no mo. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Mr Master
Incorrect, the instant the story jumped 150 years inot the Future,
it became an alternate Reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is why AGAIN!

The Here Comes Tomorrow bios clearly sates,
that Reality 15104 was created in issue #150:

"Here Comes Tomorrow" (Reality 15104 began in issue#150)

...............................................................................

Due to Scott's decision.

...............................................................................

Jean messed with Scott's mind at the end of issue #154:

...............................................................................

This is all confirmed by Grant Morrison:

(excerpt from the Questionnaires addressed to the Writers, last page New X-Men #155)

Which has nothing to do with what happened in Here Comes Tomorrow.

It diverged when a change was made to the past.

Otherwise what would be the point in her reaching into the past? What did reaching into 616 even do for her? Why change his mind if in 616 he was already going to stay?

616 he stayed. 15104 he didn't.

Jean made him stay. Jean changed his mind.

It wasn't the decision to leave that made it diverge. it was the change to the past. him being forced to stay that made it diverge.

That's what's on panel.

Handbooks state that Doc Ock's tenticles move at 95 mph... In the comics, that's way too slow to tag spiderman.

The handbooks are wrong, and don't make sense for what's on panel.

Just as in this case. Why reach into the past to make a change if in 616 he was already going to stay? (He wasn't obviously, other wise she wouldn't have needed to change 616 scott's mind.

Do you even think about what you post or do you have it saved to a note pad to easily copy and paste. And thus why you're so predictable?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm just ignoring the dude. 😂

I'll reply to Raoul, and Trick,
since they're being honest in their lack of knowledge concerning this particular story,
but the other is just here to oppose on panel facts, corroborated in it's own Bio,
with excuses stated NO WHERE in Marvel comics.

He's pulled me into that dance before, but no mo. 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Badabing
Offering an opinion or asking questions isn't trolling unless it disrupts the thread or is a blatant disregard of scans and panel feats.

Originally posted by illadelph12

So wouldn't that mean that the real future of 616 is the Sublime Future since 15104 would be the future after Jean came back to life and made the change?

As if all the stories of 616 in other titles during the Here Comes Tomorrow arc
were taking place in Here Comes Tomorrow. LOL!

Not a single other being/entity or anything from 616 appeared in Here Comes Tomorrow,
only the possible future-selves of X-Men.

This 4 issue arc, didn't affect any other title, not a single one,

why? ...

I mean it was 616 durznuts

Oops, or was it some alternate Reality (15104)
taking place in the future year of 2154
while 616 was chilling in the year 2004?

✅

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yo Ills, 616. 😆

As if all the stories of 616 in other titles during the Here Comes Tomorrow arc
were taking place in Here Comes Tomorrow. LOL!

Not a single other being/entity or anything from 616 appeared in Here Comes Tomorrow,
only the possible future-selves of X-Men.

This 4 issue arc, didn't affect any other title, not a single one,

why? ...

I mean it was 616 durznuts

Oops, or was it some alternate Reality (15104)
taking place in the future year of 2154
while 616 was chilling in the year 2004?

✅

So what does he do? He discards them.

Oh he'll discard handbooks if he doesn't like them.

Ask him about the avengers handbook where they Mention JLAvengers. Canon to marvel.

But he doesn't like that fact and so tries to apply Jargon "Marvel's Omniverse" To something outside of Marvel.

Omniverse is ALL realities. Marvel uses it incorrectly. He doesn't like that. So he talks about the guy who first used it as if he's still an authority on it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You didn't read this arc did you?

you can't be f*cking serious.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Oh what?
You're going to post scans and your interpretation of those scans?
and then say that Marvel agrees with you?

Its funny how predicted your response to my last post was.

Originally posted by Creshosk

For all your knowledge and respect you have around here you still don't grasp temporal mechnics.

and yeah once again you just gave your interpretations of events. With your flawed understanding of temporal mechanics. [/B]

Originally posted by Creshosk

You do realize don't you that if Phoenix didn't exist then Cyclops wouldn't have changed his mind, and would have wound up creating "Here comes tomorrow" don't you?

Of course you don't. No grasp of temporal mechanics.

Originally posted by Creshosk

This is wghat I mean about posting your interpritations of scans and a lack of understanding of temporal mechanics.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Reported for trolling.

You were already ignoring me. Putting me on ignore does not give you the right to continue trolling.

and no, I'm not trolling, YOU are the one that's troling.

Originally posted by Badabing
Offering an opinion or asking questions isn't trolling unless it disrupts the thread or is a blatant disregard of scans and panel feats.

You really shouldn't try to argue X-Men with X-Men fans you know...

Originally posted by Raoul
you can't be f*cking serious.

Oh come now Raoul, we all know you don't read X-men comics. 🙂

Originally posted by Raoul

you can't be f*cking serious.

Well, I hope you didn't, otherwise,
if you did read it, and you do believe that,
this debate will go no where. 🙂

I also think it's interesting that Here Comes Tomorrow was so outside of 616,
that not a single reference of any kind concerning Here Comes Tomorrow,
is mentioned in 616 Jean's WC bio.

It literally jumps from her Death right before Here Comes Tomorrow,
into Endsong, which is where 616 canon Jean's history continues.

Yep, in order to get the details to Here Comes Tomorrow,
you gotta go to the Alternate Universes handbooks,
because after all,
that's where it took place, from beginning to end. 👆

Form the very beginning:

"Here Comes Tomorrow" (Reality 15104 began in issue#150)

(excerpt from the official "Here Comes Tomorrow" bio)

So, as I originally thought, Here Comes Tomorrow, while canon, is essentially a What If in which 616 Scott leaves the X-Men thereby causing the Sublime ruled future of 15104, but in the future of 15104, Jean is resurrected and reaches back in time to force Scott not into leaving the X-Men at the point where 616 diverged into 15104, as well as telekinetically removing the portion of 15104 that took place after Scott's leaving...

...right?