Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
In fights with powerful characters, his armor has been damaged and/or his helmet was destroyed or knocked off.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
No he hasn't. The time he might have taken the same blast was in WWH tie-in. Even then he took alot of damage and he wasn't laughing it off.
Don’t tell me you actually take that “powerful enough to split a small planet” comment at face value.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
No, Juggs has taken plenty of hits stronger than what Thor can do and without his shield.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Cy was never stated to have powered him up.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
See now you're pulling crap out of your ass. The feat of him taking the Godblast doesn't lose any credibility because it is within his character to take such hits. The writer knew enough to have Cain compete with Thor.
If he knew about Cain’s abilities in their first fight, then he must have known about them in the second fight as well, even the shield/durability thing. If it’s in his character to take the Godblast, than it must be within his character to lose his invulnerability when his shield is down.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
No that does not mean you can change their opinions.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I have noticed that in every topic with Juggernaut you do your best to point out this same argument. What is your problem with Juggernaut's character.
Other than that, I only point out that, contrary to popular belief, a character doesn’t (God forbid) actually have an ability that he had never ever displayed ever. And considering I have reasonable evidence that he isn’t much more durable than most top-tiers without his shield with very little solid contradictory evidence, I don’t find my stance to be unreasonable at all.
And a power set listed on an unofficial fan site like uncannyxmen.net isn’t going to convince me otherwise.
Originally posted by horrorwolf
Nope.🙄
"speed blitzes" seem to be fanboy banter for:
"I cant think of a clearly defined reason for a win, so....speedblitz."Hulks Durability>>>>>>>A few direct punches from DS.
you fail at logic. Hulk isn't that durable in calm states. He's been knocked out by far less than DS or Thanos. And lets be clear, DS could stand toe to toe with HUlk and knock him out. Seeing as how he is far the superior hand to hand fighter. I just said that speed blitz takes hulk out fast.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
you fail at logic. Hulk isn't that durable in calm states. He's been knocked out by far less than DS or Thanos. And lets be clear, DS could stand toe to toe with HUlk and knock him out. Seeing as how he is far the superior hand to hand fighter. I just said that speed blitz takes hulk out fast.
Nvr,
I for one would suggest Hulk is very likely to be at levels beyond any typical "calm" state status at the start of such a battle.
1. He is somehow paired with Juggernaut here, who he doesnt exactly get him in a friendly type mood...
2. Getting ready to take on Thanos again who has pissed him off in previous clashes....is also likely to further amp his mood beyond normal starting levels as well.
Regardless.. Hulk has gone toe to toe taking multiple strikes from Thanos before without any such "casual" or "early" KO's...
Therefore, I don't believe DS>>>>Thanos in strength for one second. If you think so, its your perogative.
Originally posted by horrorwolf
I don't believe DS>>>>Thanos in strength for one second. If you think so, its your perogative.
This is the thing.
Hulk has some pretty good feats.
The thing is that the best one arent quantifiable.
Therefore we must go off of what we know and powerscaling.
Both of these say Thanos > Hulk
But it also says Ds > Thanos
Originally posted by Accel
And considering I have reasonable evidence that he isn’t much more durable than most top-tiers without his shield with very little solid contradictory evidence, I don’t find my stance to be unreasonable at all.
You don't have reasonable evidence. Juggernaut has almost always been said to be indestructible by himself and others within comics. I believe more than one writer has called him the Indestructible Juggernaut.
You really can't prove Cain isn't indestructible. He still hasn't been physically injured. He hasn't had any actual injuries while at full power.
This is comics it shouldn't be that hard to accept Cain is indestructible. You act as if it were real life. Hulk somehow has unlimited Rage, and was given power through a radioactive bomb. That does not make any sense. At least Juggernaut is explained through magic.
Considering that’s pretty much what they said, that’s exactly what it means.
No it doesn't you're wrong. Plus he said at "Marvel HQ", not just his opinion.
If it’s in his character to take the Godblast, than it must be within his character to lose his invulnerability when his shield is down.
That doesn't make any sense. It isn't in his character to be that durable only through his shield.
He did so back when he fought the X-Men post Onslaught. You honestly think Cyclops is holding back when his mansion and teammates are in danger in either situation?
Not he didn't. That was retconned into him never using his full power, a mental block I think it was referred to in a Civil War tie in. Anyways Hulk showed Signs of struggle in the X-mansion and he was taking massive hits in the WWH tie in, something Juggernaut didn't do.
Don’t tell me you actually take that “powerful enough to split a small planet” comment at face value.
You seem to pick and choose which quotes characters say as fact or boasting. Again, its a comic, far crazier things have been said/happened.
Again, can you prove that his shield was not down? I’m basically asking for specific examples instead of generic references.
Again there are times when his armor is damage and his helmet is removed/destroyed. that can't happen if his shield is up. That is basically what the shield is for. To keep people off of him and from throwing him around.
Earlier you said this guy didn’t know what he was talking about when he wrote the second Thor/Juggernaut fight since he called Cain a mutant.
When I said he didn't know much about Juggernaut, I was referring to him not knowing about Juggs shield and natural durability. I referred to the mutant comment as proof he didn't research the character enough.
Now you’re saying that he did know Cain’s abilities just because he had him withstand the Godblast (a crazy ass feat no matter who you are)?
I don't know where you are getting that from. I never said anything like that. I said that feat isn't PIS because it is within the Character of Juggernaut to withstand attacks like that. You were claiming it isn't valid if the shield thing isn't. Just because a writer gets something wrong about a character doesn't mean the whole comic is wrong. They can get some of the things right.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You don't have reasonable evidence. Juggernaut has almost always been said to be indestructible by himself and others within comics.
I’m still waiting for specific references to Juggernaut’s supposed invulnerability instead of just hearing, “Well Random Person #171 said he was invulnerable and he took a heavy attack without his shield, so therefore he’s invulnerable.”
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I believe more than one writer has called him the Indestructible Juggernaut.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You really can't prove Cain isn't indestructible. He still hasn't been physically injured. He hasn't had any actual injuries while at full power.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
This is comics it shouldn't be that hard to accept Cain is indestructible. You act as if it were real life. Hulk somehow has unlimited Rage, and was given power through a radioactive bomb. That does not make any sense. At least Juggernaut is explained through magic.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
No it doesn't you're wrong. Plus he said at "Marvel HQ", not just his opinion.
Editors’ opinions in newsletters aren’t the beat all, end all y’know.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
That doesn't make any sense. It isn't in his character to be that durable only through his shield.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Not he didn't. That was retconned into him never using his full power, a mental block I think it was referred to in a Civil War tie in. Anyways Hulk showed Signs of struggle in the X-mansion and he was taking massive hits in the WWH tie in, something Juggernaut didn't do.
And Hulk’s skin only blistered a little. His durability’s been unusually weak in this story arc, since even Thing and She-Hulk could make him bleed.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
You seem to pick and choose which quotes characters say as fact or boasting. Again, its a comic, far crazier things have been said/happened.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
Again there are times when his armor is damage and his helmet is removed/destroyed. that can't happen if his shield is up. That is basically what the shield is for. To keep people off of him and from throwing him around.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
When I said he didn't know much about Juggernaut, I was referring to him not knowing about Juggs shield and natural durability. I referred to the mutant comment as proof he didn't research the character [B]enough. [/B]
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I don't know where you are getting that from. I never said anything like that. I said that feat isn't PIS because it is within the Character of Juggernaut to withstand attacks like that. You were claiming it isn't valid if the shield thing isn't. Just because a writer gets something wrong about a character doesn't mean the whole comic is wrong. They can get some of the things right.
For that same reason, we also know that his shield is linked to his durability because, like the Godforce feat, we’ve seen it on panel.
Originally posted by Gecko4lif
never said he would speed blitzAnd trust me thanos hits hard... but not Ds hard
And I never said YOU did...you just jumped in and somehow assumed I was talking to you for some reason.
Which my be why I was responded to Nvrbeen's statment about the speedblitzing KO - not you.
Again at the very least... Thanos=DS in strength, and fighting ability if not more so.
Originally posted by horrorwolf
And I never said YOU did...you just jumped in and somehow assumed I was talking to you for some reason.Which my be why I was responded to Nvrbeen's statment about the speedblitzing KO - not you.
Again at the very least... Thanos=DS in strength, and fighting ability if not more so.
Fighting ability yes
strength no. Not even close.
The fact that you have a thanos signature obviously means you can objectively come at this.
I have on-panel evidence that has yet to contradict any other on-panel showing.
You don't have any evidence. Dazed does not = physical injuries. His body was not damaged in the least.
I can, however, prove that he’s not completely invulnerable without his shield.
No you can't prove it.
Saying a guy isn’t completely invulnerable when there’s evidence to support it is nothing like trying to apply realism to comics.
There is no evidence to support that Cain can take damage without his shield.
Editors’ opinions in newsletters aren’t the beat all, end all y’know.
Neither is your opinion.
On-panel evidence disagrees with you.
With the exception of the Thor issue, there is on panel evidence.
So why refer to an incident that also took place before the mental block if you’re just going to disregard it?
Read my damn post and understand it. I never said Juggernaut took a full blast from Cyclops.
And Hulk’s skin only blistered a little. His durability’s been unusually weak in this story arc, since even Thing and She-Hulk could make him bleed.
It doesn't matter, Hulk Struggled to hold his ground. Then he struggled to step forward. Cain stood up right and laughed at it.
Which says that his shield wasn’t up at those times, sure. However, this doesn’t automatically mean he doesn’t have his shield up when he takes on the heaviest attacks, especially when it’s shown on-panel that he needs it.
He doesn't need his shield to take those attacks. He didn't have it up when he fought Hulk all those times or other heavy hitters.
And one little mistake still doesn’t automatically discredit the shield/durability thing.
It is enough to say the writer didn't fully know of Juggernaut's capabilities.
For that same reason, we also know that his shield is linked to his durability because, like the Godforce feat, we’ve seen it on panel.
No, there is only you who think his shield is the source of his durability.
I am done arguing back and forth with you. You keep posting the same crap over and over. You're not going to change your mind and I am not either.