Street Fighter IV

The above post was at the limit, had to post the second part here:

I was intrigued as to his (Daigo) record, and so I did the research. He lost a good few matches last year, even to opponents he had played many times before.

He's not even the highest ranked player in Japan currently, so I hear.

Is this true?

I hear that of the top five Japanese players (At the time the article was published), at least two of them have beat him before, and he has beaten them.

If you look at his tournament placings, it's got more firsts than anything else, but it's also littered with 3rds, 2nds and 5ths. The man isn't Jesus. He obviously isn't untouchable.

Capcom vs. SNK 2:

Super Battle Opera (2003) - 2nd [C-Guile/Chun-Li/Sagat]
Super Battle Opera 2 (2004) - 5th [C-Ken/Guile/Sagat] with teammates Shiro [C-Yamazaki/Sagat/Rolento] and Dan [C-Ryu/Ken/Sagat]
Evolution 2003 - 2nd [C-Guile/Cammy/Sagat]
Absolution 2004 - 5th [C-Sagat/Ken/Guile]
Evolution 2006 - 5th [A-Blanka/Vega/Bison]

Guilty Gear Series (XX, #Reload and Slash):

Super Battle Opera (2003) - 3rd [Sol] with teammates Arisakashinya [Slayer] and Pachi [Faust]
Evolution 2003 - 1st [Sol]
Absolution 2004 - 1st [Sol]
Evolution 2004 - 1st [Sol]
Evolution 2006 - 2nd [Sol] with teammates RF [Faust] and Kindevu [Eddie]

Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike

Evolution 2003 - 2nd [Ken SA3]
Absolution 2004 - 1st [Ken SA3]
Evolution 2004 - 2nd [Ken SA3]
The 2nd a-cho Cup (2004) - 2nd [Ken SA3] with teammates K.O [Yun SA3] and Onanism [Urien SA3]
Super Battle Opera 3 (2005) - 1st [Ken SA3] with teammate Ohnuki [Chun Li SA2]
Cooperation Cup 4 (2005) - 1st with teammates Deshi KFG, Hayao, Boss, and Raoh
Seasons Beatings IV (2009) - 4th [Ken SA3]

Super Street Fighter II Turbo:

Super Battle Opera (2003) - 1st [Ryu] with teammates Kurahashi [Guile] and Yng.Bro.Chun [Chun-Li]
Evolution 2003 - 1st [Ryu]
Absolution 2004 - 1st [Ryu, Balrog, O.Sagat, Zangief]
Evolution 2004 - 1st [Ryu, Balrog, O.Sagat]
X-Mania 7 - 2nd [Ryu] with teammates Yaya [Sagat] and Aniken [Ken]

Hyper Street Fighter II:

Evolution 2006 - 5th [ST Ryu]

Street Fighter Alpha 3:

Street Fighter Zero 3 National Championship 1998 - 1st [V-Akuma]
Street Fighter Zero 3 World Championship 1998 - 1st [V-Akuma]
Absolution 2004 - 3rd [X/A/V-Ryu]
The 2nd a-cho Cup (2004) - 2nd [V-Ryu] with teammates D44 [V-Akuma] and West Coast Dhalsim [A-Dhalsim]

Capcom Fighting Jam:

Super Battle Opera 3 (2005) - 2nd [Urien/Guile] with teammate Dan [Ryu/Karin]

Super Street Fighter II Turbo: HD Remix

Seasons Beatings IV Singles (2009) - 1st [Ryu]

Street Fighter IV:

Evolution 2009 - 1st [Ryu]
Gods Garden (2009) - 3rd [Ryu]
Shiozawa Cup (2009) - 1st [Ryu] with teammates Iyo [Dhalsim], Nyan [Ryu], Misse [Akuma], and Bonchan [Sagat] (Team Neko Punch)
Seasons Beatings IV Singles (2009) - 1st [Ryu]
Seasons Beatings IV 3v3 (2009) - 3rd [Ryu] with teammates Larry [Zangief] and Moses [Rufus] (Team "Daigo Company"😉

Now, as impressive as that record is (And it is), that's not perfect. That doesn't tell the tale of someone who has an almost psychic and unstoppable, unprecedented understanding of the game.

It proves he can be beat, and by multiple people. Why? Because some days you're just not as fast.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I haven't played anything post-Tekken 4, so that pretty much shows that I was only referring to the strategy of the prior games.

Yet, none of those would rival SF in strategy base, please, "educate" me in this standard as to why you would make such a claim. I'll be back to push your young pup down and tell you why SF>>>>>Tekken in almost all aspects. Mind you, I played both of them competitively for multiple years.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Also, if you're gonna judge by my post, you'd do well to ask how old I am first. I predate the first Street Fighter by two years, I predate the second (Which is essentially the first relevant game) by five.

So basically you weren't old enough to even be playing these games competitively at their great heights which is what you are implying? Not to mention with your mentioning above you were 11 years old when Tekken 3 came out and 13 when Tekken Tag came out, arguably the most competitive era of Tekken. Are you really truly saying you "knew" the depths of these games during the height of their reign?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're saying that the series would have been killed years ago if it had no potential for growth or what not. What kind of argument is that? How long have some of the world's franchises been going on?

You didn't bother to read it right at all now did you. I said that SF would have died if there was No Strategy that was good enough to keep this game going.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
When was the last time you saw a Friday the 13th movie and thought it was a refreshing concept? Do not confuse persistent repetition with longevity.

Please, please come to me and try to explain in your detail to how SFII plays like the SFAlpha series, or SFIII Series. Please...I dare you to, so I can get a whole lot of ROFL out of it. Honestly, I want to know, because obviously here you and I aren't playing the same SF games, because all of the SF games are "repetition", lmao.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Even the most ardent follower of Street Fighter is probably not so retarded as to claim this series has been kept alive by the games constantly and massively evolving. The latest installment, for all its pretty graphics, is still essentially the game we got back in March '91. That's fine if you love it and enjoy it, but it is what it is.

Since when did I say evolving? When? I said that these games have been kept alive because of their strategical aspects, the entire strategical fundamentals of what made SF fun and unique from other fighting games. You act like "other" fighting games have evolved, however tell me...how HAS Tekken evolved? If you mean for the worse, then yes, however how has it improved from it's predecessor?

Look to Virtua Fighter, what completely "new" revolutionary route have they taken in VF:5 that completely sets it away from VF:4? Considering VF:5 is using a majority of the concepts from it's older counterparts? VF is considered one of the most strategical FG's out their and any smart FGer would know that's because they keep much of the concepts of the games from older versions intact, the notion of "If the Formula allows for strategy then you keep" it mentality.

Your asking for evolution, and you cry about SF not being "qualified" and yet NO other longevity series next to it has made any huge revolutionary route. You are completely throwing concepts out of order now, SF:IV plays like a little bit of SFII, with concepts of SFIII and some new formalities of it's own uniqueness. Not only that, you don't need to be evolutionary every time to make it more deep, that is an absolutely terrible flaw, that shows up as examples in multiple FG's. SFIII's Parry was "revolutionary" for it's series...it definitely didn't improve strategy, Tekken's "Crush System" was made to be revolutionary and that didn't improve strategy at all.

However, what in the world are we debating about anyhow, you still haven't stated anything remotely reliable to your claim of "SF is not strategical" in your eyes. All your post and you haven't posted anything credible. It's people like you that make these forums almost unbearable sometimes, I don't mind debating, but I just don't find it fun to debate with people who don't even know the fighting game they are disputing as "not good" or the fighting game they are claiming as being "better".

Originally posted by JustFrame
Yet, none of those would rival SF in strategy base, please, "educate" me in this standard as to why you would make such a claim. I'll be back to push your young pup down and tell you why SF>>>>>Tekken in almost all aspects. Mind you, I played both of them competitively for multiple years.

Almost all aspects?

Which has the greater, more varied moves set? Seeing as you're King Expert, educate me.

Originally posted by JustFrame
So basically you weren't old enough to even be playing these games competitively at their great heights which is what you are implying? Not to mention with your mentioning above you were 11 years old when Tekken 3 came out and 13 when Tekken Tag came out, arguably the most competitive era of Tekken. Are you really truly saying you "knew" the depths of these games during the height of their reign?

I'm 24.

Secondly, why does it matter when you get into a game? A game's a game. It doesn't change over time. Tekken Tag now is the same as Tekken Tag when it came out.

Originally posted by JustFrame
You didn't bother to read it right at all now did you. I said that SF would have died if there was No Strategy that was good enough to keep this game going.

What kept the game going is what makes it so successful and so loved; accessibility. Not changes, not evolution. The very fact is that someone who played Street Fighter 2 and no other S.F. since could pick up 4 and, with relative ease, get to grips with it.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Please, please come to me and try to explain in your detail to how SFII plays like the SFAlpha series, or SFIII Series. Please...I dare you to, so I can get a whole lot of ROFL out of it. Honestly, I want to know, because obviously here you and I aren't playing the same SF games, because all of the SF games are "repetition", lmao.

Well, you're clearly the expert, so maybe I'm missing something. You tell me what makes them all so different. I want to see what your reasoning is and then I'll tell you why I find them repetitive (Which they are, almost inarguably).

Originally posted by JustFrame
Since when did I say evolving? When? I said that these games have been kept alive because of their strategical aspects, the entire strategical fundamentals of what made SF fun and unique from other fighting games. You act like "other" fighting games have evolved, however tell me...how [b]HAS Tekken evolved? If you mean for the worse, then yes, however how has it improved from it's predecessor?

You're misunderstanding me.

The only strategy in S.F. is player strategy. The moves sets and characters have always been relatively limited. People in the game as long as Daigo probably know everyone's favourite character as well as they do because of this.

A PERSON might strategise by saying "Ok, gonna use this guy against this guy. He favours this style of attacking so I'm gonna do this.". That isn't the GAME ITSELF being massively varied and open to many amounts of varied technique. It's the person, not the game. The game has never been very strategic if at all.

It's been kept alive because it's so simple and anyone can play it. Anyone can pull off moves. That's why it's so successful. If it was so successful because a niche group of tournament players loved it, it wouldn't even be successful.

Satsujin replies with the irrelevant retort of "Why isn't everyone as good as Daigo then?", and that's not the point. The point is that there's a choice.

Look at it like sports. More people exercise by running than they do with martial arts or something. Running is accessible, it's easy. If you then said: "OH SO YOU'RE SAYING ANYONE CAN BE USAIN BOLT?", you'd be wrong.

Street Fighter is very simple and very accessible. That's why it's loved.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Look to Virtua Fighter, what completely "new" revolutionary route have they taken in VF:5 that completely sets it away from VF:4? Considering VF:5 is using a majority of the concepts from it's older counterparts? VF is considered one of the most strategical FG's out their and any smart FGer would know that's because they keep much of the concepts of the games from older versions intact, the notion of "If the Formula allows for strategy then you keep" it mentality.

I don't play Virtua Fighter so I'm in no position to comment.

To that end, though, what game has a larger and more varied moves set? V.F. or S.F.? Which games moves set would take longest to learn for the average player?

Originally posted by JustFrame
Your asking for evolution, and you cry about SF not being "qualified" and yet NO other longevity series next to it has made any huge revolutionary route. You are completely throwing concepts out of order now, SF:IV plays like a little bit of SFII, with concepts of SFIII and some new formalities of it's own uniqueness. Not only that, you don't need to be evolutionary every time to make it more deep, that is an absolutely terrible flaw, that shows up as examples in multiple FG's. SFIII's Parry was "revolutionary" for it's series...it definitely didn't improve strategy, Tekken's "Crush System" was made to be revolutionary and that didn't improve strategy at all.

I'm not ASKING for evolution, I'm simply saying S.F. hasn't evolved anywhere near as much as fanboys would have everyone believe. The reason it IS so loved is because it HASN'T changed enough to alienate the casual gamer. It's still essentially 2D in principle and it still has moves sets that are easy to learn.

What's a better game to crack out at a party or gathering, to give everyone a fair chance; S.F. or V.F. or Tekken?

Originally posted by JustFrame
However, what in the world are we debating about anyhow, you still haven't stated anything remotely reliable to your claim of "SF is not strategical" in your eyes. All your post and you haven't posted anything credible. It's people like you that make these forums almost unbearable sometimes, I don't mind debating, but I just don't find it fun to debate with people who don't even know the fighting game they are disputing as "not good" or the fighting game they are claiming as being "better".

I've proven many times why Street Fighter isn't a massively strategic game. Players going into matches with a gameplan doesn't change that.

The funny thing is, you're whining about "debaters", but I never once said S.F. was not good. I stated I preferred Tekken, I never said I didn't like S.F., did I? At the end of the day, preference is all we have in terms of what is "better" on a subjective level.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well, No End N Site, you seemingly have zero interest in civil discussion.

You are purposefully misunderstanding my posts and continually flaming, there's no need for it. When you've grown up and made some sensible points, I'll address you. Any further replies aimed at me personally will be dealt with via PM. Calm yourself down, kid. It's not a fight, it's a debate. Relax, just...breathe.

You seem to fail to understand what I'm tellin' you. I have no problem wit you not likin' SF or thinkin' Tekken is better, that's your opinion. So why would I argue wit you about that? I am addressin' you about the unnecessary disrespectful and condescending nature of your original post. I don't have to be angry or young to tell you that I think your actin like a total jerk and or asswhole. And wit that, I'm done as well.

Why did you feel the need to compare Tekken to SF anyways AC? Point is SF4 has gained the most interest right now to gamers over Tekken and that doesn't seem to be changing any time soon. It takes alot of strategy from both games, but I'll be honest, if you're a really skilled tekken player, it becomes who can keep their combo going the longest until the opponent is dead.

To No End/DVamp:

How is it disrespectful? It's A GAME, it's not like I'm sitting here dissing your mothers. Jesus Christ. I simply stated my preferred style of game because, inevitably, someone WOULD have asked. I didn't sit here saying S.F. was shit, that I hated it and I most certainly didn't troll this thread. YOU, End, are the one who began dragging the debate somewhere it didn't need to be and insisting things that were not true.

You took my comments WAY to personally, WAY too seriously because ironically, you have some kind of personal desire to defend S.F. That's the mark of a fanboy; defending their love when it wasn't even being attacked.

My whole point was about the fans' perception of the game, and you only proved my point.

If you're going to address me as reasonably and sensibly as you just did, I have no problem having a conversation with you. If you're going to rage and harp on arguments that don't exist, I have no time for you.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you're going to address me as reasonably and sensibly as you just did, I have no problem having a conversation with you. If you're going to rage and harp on arguments that don't exist, I have no time for you.

-AC

I have read your posts in this thread and even though you might not do it on purpose (which i highly doubt), your posts sound really offensive. When I compare them to others I see a nasty difference, your intention it seems is to annoy the people, so they will bash you, so you can annoy them even more. Your behaviour is quite rude and unnecessary. The "tone" of your posts speaks volumes about your character, you have to be a very sad and bitter person.

I still wish you all the best, maybe one day you will grow up...

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I have read your posts in this thread and even though you might not do it on purpose (which i highly doubt), your posts sound really offensive. When I compare them to others I see a nasty difference, your intention it seems is to annoy the people, so they will bash you, so you can annoy them even more. Your behaviour is quite rude and unnecessary. The "tone" of your posts speaks volumes about your character, you have to be a very sad and bitter person.

I still wish you all the best, maybe one day you will grow up...

I have to grow up because of something YOU get out of my posts, but isn't actually there?

I have to grow up because people have to resort to bashing when debating me?

Ok. I see how that makes absolute sense.

So, Street Fighter?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
To No End/DVamp:

How is it disrespectful? It's A GAME, it's not like I'm sitting here dissing your mothers. Jesus Christ. I simply stated my preferred style of game because, inevitably, someone WOULD have asked. I didn't sit here saying S.F. was shit, that I hated it and I most certainly didn't troll this thread. YOU, End, are the one who began dragging the debate somewhere it didn't need to be and insisting things that were not true.

You took my comments WAY to personally, WAY too seriously because ironically, you have some kind of personal desire to defend S.F. That's the mark of a fanboy; defending their love when it wasn't even being attacked.

My whole point was about the fans' perception of the game, and you only proved my point.

If you're going to address me as reasonably and sensibly as you just did, I have no problem having a conversation with you. If you're going to rage and harp on arguments that don't exist, I have no time for you.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"It's amazing to see someone make Street Fighter out to be this intricately unique fighting game. It's about whoever's the fastest, that's it. You can over-complicate it all you want, but that's what it comes down to. There are people who dedicate insane amounts of time to being as good as they can be, but they aren't doing anything that can't be taught. It's not a legitimate talent, at all. The fact is, there's only so much you can do. Street Fighter will never be as varied as Tekken, it'll never have the learning curve of Tekken. This is provable by the fact that even hardcore Street Fighter players say that there are elements of the game that can just turn it in your opponent's favour, irrespective of skill. If it was such an intricate game where skill reigned supreme, or even existed, that wouldn't be possible. That's why S.F. players complain about people using techniques that are there to be used; it confronts them with the fact that their skill is ultimately worth nothing. -AC

...and you can't see how most of this was TOTALLY unnecessary, than there is no point in goin' any further. There are so many other ways you coulda said that and not sounded like a total dick but you chose not to. And where in the hell did I defend SF at all? Name one time I defended the game. My posts were about you sir, not the game.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I have to grow up because of something YOU get out of my posts, but isn't actually there?

I have to grow up because people have to resort to bashing when debating me?

Ok. I see how that makes absolute sense.

So, Street Fighter?

-AC

Yes, because my opinion about you > your opinion about you.

If someone behaves like you do, I can't blame them for bashing you. And I don't doubt that you have the necessary social intelligence to see where and how you provoke them, I also think you do this on purpose.

Indeed, it does.

SF IV has more variety and needs more skill then Tekken 6.
Since you wrote "I haven't played anything post-Tekken 4, so that pretty much shows that I was only referring to the strategy of the prior games." you can't know this.
And where the skill comes in, well. Unlike World of Warcraft you aren't dragged by your items. It's not only about how fast you react but also about strategy, experience and practice. The game is pretty balanced, unlike some Tekken games where even the most inexperienced gamer could be successfull with eddy.
But enough of this. I know what will come from you, I saw it some pages ago, either you will whine or behave like an spoiled child and I have no need for an discussion with someone like you.

So have a good day.

Ok, good luck with your opinion of me. Great. Smashing.

Eddy is a one-off character, it's not a reflection on the game. There isn't another character like him, so it's not a fair example.

You didn't address anything I said and I've addressed everything YOU said between my replied to Satsujin and JustFrame. Good day. Nobody's forcing you to debate me.

Originally posted by No End N Site
If you can't find anything wrong with this...

...and you can't see how most of this was TOTALLY unnecessary, than there is no point in goin' any further. There are so many other ways you coulda said that and not sounded like a total dick but you chose not to. And where in the hell did I defend SF at all? Name one time I defended the game. My posts were about you, not the game.

Exactly, why are you posting about me? This isn't about me. I don't care what you think about me. PM me if you wanna give me a personality evaluation, I couldn't care less. I don't think: "Ok, who am I gonna sound like a dick to if I post this?", because EVERYTHING is offensive to somebody.

This thread isn't about me, it's about Street Fighter. I'm here to talk Street Fighter. Get the focus off me, please.

-AC

This idea that one game is better than another is total BS and its about preference so everyone stop getting so butthurt when someone doesn't find it to their taste...For instance I prefer BlazBlue to than SFIV. Its my opinion and my taste.. Can you guys please just take this inane argument to the PMs it makes it so much easier for people to actually talk about SF4...
Back on topic...If I ever get to play the SSFIV I wanna play Ibuki. She's pretty awesome...I especially like her sliding grapple move...

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Back on topic...If I ever get to play the SSFIV I wanna play Ibuki. She's pretty awesome...I especially like her sliding grapple move...

Makoto, I liked her Style in 3rd Strike and she reminds me of the Red Hulk in the trailer 😄.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
This idea that one game is better than another is total BS and its about preference so everyone stop getting so butthurt when someone doesn't find it to their taste...For instance I prefer BlazBlue to than SFIV. Its my opinion and my taste.. Can you guys please just take this inane argument to the PMs it makes it so much easier for people to actually talk about SF4...

It's not about what he said, it's about how he said it.

Originally posted by No End N Site
It's not about what he said, it's about how he said it.

This coming from the man who decided to reply to me with swearing, while calling me "bitter", "butthurt" and any other manner of pathetically childish things that, despite me civilly clarifying, you CONTINUED to insist were true.

Stop turning this into a psych evaluation. Discuss Street Fighter.

-AC

All I said was this...

"Someone sounds like a Tekken fanboi. Why else would you come out of no where and say things like this? You've been wantin' to say that for a while now, haven't you?"

I just called you a fanboi and later an ass and that's pretty much what I'm sayin' now. That's one short psych evaluation, lol.

Now we can discuss SF...

When I was younger, I always imagined Ryu as having a ponytail because of his headband.

That's my S.F. confession.

-AC

Street Fighter is an integral part of my youth. First introduced to SFII when I was like 4 years old...been following it since...I still enjoy it quite a bit however, I just enjoy playing Blazblue more now ever since my roommate introduced me to it...still he kicks my ass in it...But I can say safely that for me anyways Street Fighter is more simple but I am no tournament level player. never was and probably never will be. I just find it more simplistic and nobody here should call me wrong or an idiot for saying that. Nothing wrong with that though and I can truly say its still hella enjoyable. Plus the music in Blazblue pwns Street Fighters....

Anyone got new info and the last character that's suppose to be added to SSF4? I know his name is Hakkan, but I want to see some pics or even better a video of him.

You missed it, there were pics all over the place, he looks ALOT like Wario. Capcom quickly told every site that they had to take the pics down...and they did.

He's a Turkish Oil wrestler who is obsessed wit body oil. needless to say, he's a grappler.