Street Fighter IV

In the legit SF games to where Ryu could zone and footsie strongly, Ken has actually done worse within this match up, at usually a 6-4 match up in Ryu's favor. The only exceptions were in 3S...where Ryu couldn't zone or footsie effectively but more importantly that he got completely nerfed going into 3S while Ken stayed near exactly the same and with some slight improvements, and in A2 where the two could fight nearly equal, and the fact that Ken had one of the BEST CC's in the entire roster+ CC helped greatly.

Also, with the Ken buffs in SSF:IV, I really don't see how Ken is "now" better then Ryu in the statement of some people you know whom now claim Ken>Ryu. Considering that Ryu can do basically 99% of all the bs that he could in SF:IV minus Trade DP into Ultra...and people now claim Ryu is weaker then Ken? How?

I haven't really been up to date with Ken in SSF:IV as far changes go in recent time, however if I remember correctly SSF:IV Ken still doesn't have an easily accessible Ultra like Ryu, in a SF game in which Ultra's are nearly essential to you being very good. Those peeps must either know something I don't know about Ken that makes him "that" good, or else they are just angry over the fact that Ryu went from Stupid Easy Mode to Slightly Stupid Easy Mode.

Honestly though, they really need to stop nerfing the Shoryuken, and hopefully this will be as far as it goes. It's just lame to be getting smacked all the time for trying to punish somebody for jumping at the wrong times. Best Shoryuken's were still the CE/HF versions of old, great priority AA's that made you fear to jump in.

I would have been happy with the removal of trade shot into Ultra with Ryu's Shoryuken and even the tone down of damage, but lowering the inv. frames on it, when it wasn't even that big to begin with...sigh.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
BTW Satsujin Ryu's timing for the DP>SADC>Ultra is the same as vanilla.

Ryu can now juggle without ex-moves(yes)

While his hP DP got nerfed his mP DP works exactly the same. Should people use it they will find Ryu plays pretty much the same as the first.

U2 is the beast of all AA and you can option select it.

also, I think they shoulda gave ken his bag o' laundry kick from cap vs snk.. though I guess abel has it anyways :/

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
someone was telling me about option select.. but it sounded kinda confusing.. and the description for fuzzy guard kinda left me like whoa~ @_@

also, I think they shoulda gave ken his bag o' laundry kick from cap vs snk.. though I guess abel has it anyways :/

Basically what happens is that on wakeup if they try to do something after you do a meaty jumping heavy kick your ultra will come out and annihilate. If they try to backdash your ultra will come out and nail them while they are dashing(unless its someone like ChunLi or Dhalsim with long dashes) and if they just block the ultra doesn't come out and from there you can either go on your block string or throw etc.

Originally posted by JustFrame
In the legit SF games to where Ryu could zone and footsie strongly, Ken has actually done worse within this match up, at usually a 6-4 match up in Ryu's favor. The only exceptions were in 3S...where Ryu couldn't zone or footsie effectively but more importantly that he got completely nerfed going into 3S while Ken stayed near exactly the same and with some slight improvements, and in A2 where the two could fight nearly equal, and the fact that Ken had one of the BEST CC's in the entire roster+ CC helped greatly.

Also, with the Ken buffs in SSF:IV, I really don't see how Ken is "now" better then Ryu in the statement of some people you know whom now claim Ken>Ryu. Considering that Ryu can do basically 99% of all the bs that he could in SF:IV minus Trade DP into Ultra...and people now claim Ryu is weaker then Ken? How?

I haven't really been up to date with Ken in SSF:IV as far changes go in recent time, however if I remember correctly SSF:IV Ken still doesn't have an easily accessible Ultra like Ryu, in a SF game in which Ultra's are nearly essential to you being very good. Those peeps must either know something I don't know about Ken that makes him "that" good, or else they are just angry over the fact that Ryu went from Stupid Easy Mode to Slightly Stupid Easy Mode.

Honestly though, they really need to stop nerfing the Shoryuken, and hopefully this will be as far as it goes. It's just lame to be getting smacked all the time for trying to punish somebody for jumping at the wrong times. Best Shoryuken's were still the CE/HF versions of old, great priority AA's that made you fear to jump in.

I would have been happy with the removal of trade shot into Ultra with Ryu's Shoryuken and even the tone down of damage, but lowering the inv. frames on it, when it wasn't even that big to begin with...sigh.

They think that because Ken's fireballs don't suck as much he can do better. They also think the U2 will give him better odds, which is true since he can actually link it now, but they fail to understand that Ryu still outzones Ken without much difficulty and his U1 is still powerful and combos into everything. Let alone a random AA U2. They fail to understand that every character got nerfed when it comes to damage. i think only dhalsim got more damage in his pokes and fireballs and didn't suffer any nerfs(god imma hate sim's pokes lol)

Originally posted by Zack Fair
They think that because Ken's fireballs don't suck as much he can do better. They also think the U2 will give him better odds, which is true since he can actually link it now, but they fail to understand that Ryu still outzones Ken without much difficulty and his U1 is still powerful and combos into everything. Let alone a random AA U2. They fail to understand that every character got nerfed when it comes to damage. i think only dhalsim got more damage in his pokes and fireballs and didn't suffer any nerfs(god imma hate sim's pokes lol)

So basically people who really don't know how to play the game and thus just assume this on the fly. Also yeah, I also believe so on Sim not receiving any damage reduction, however hopefully the other characters can still do a significant more amount then Sim.

Because to me, he was a character, when others got nerfed too much, he would become way good, because he somehow flies under the radar alot of times. Like in SFII, he constantly kept getting better, while other characters like Ryu, Guile constantly kept getting worse.

Sim only seems to have gotten improvements so I'm banking he's in the potential to be a very strong contender in SSF:IV.

Just got my copy...'prolly gonna be scarce around here for a while. Just got my stick too, I totally suck with it, I can't even do Hadoukens consistently. Gotta practice.

Practice makes perfect!

I always loose my footing on the stick button layout.. the controller feels more comfy cuz I can feel where fierce and jab is and all that.. but having each finger for one button, while its really awesome.. I end up pushing the wrong buttons in heated battles XD

That is understandable. That still happens to me with pad and I have used that thing for almost a year now. Which reminds me I should get a new one since this one has had a lot of punishment. It is a miracle that madcatz shit is still working.

Justin Wong vs Daigo exhibition rematch:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/unity-events/v3

Awesomeness Goodby Street Fighter 4. Welcome Super Street Fighter 4

http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/4/23/special-video-tribute-to-street-fighter-iv.html

That ssf4 stream sucks ...

Daigo was using alot of the core fundamentals of Guile that has been present since SFII, and simply just incorporating alot of the aspects into SSF:IV. Alot of things like Sonic Boom trade with Hadouken then Backfist Ryu, or Sonic Boom for buffer and bait, they jump, you go up and Air Throw, etc, etc. Guile also does better in SSF:IV due to the fact that everyone else got toned down, which helped, and his Sonic Hurricane looks to be viable up against projectile characters.

Regardless, Guile looks solid, but I still feel to this day, that they should have improved on his normals more then what was presented in SSF:IV, which was all that Guile would have needed to push him to become a very strong contender. Potentially with that beef, he could have "been" Top-Tier, and I wouldn't mind that because in order for Guile to be Top-Tier with that beef up, you would need to have SF fundamentals solidified to a good extent to make him that good anyhow.

Onto another set was with Alex Valle who obviously has been an aggressive player his entire career in fighting games, and I feel that had he resorted to zoning and playing footsie more with Ryu, he would have won over Daigo's Guile, even though it came down to the wire. Valle jumped in imo more then he should have, and allowed Daigo to beat him out in the projectile war on more then one occasion (which shouldn't happen when your Ryu). Not saying that I'm on Valle's level or that I would have been a better contender, however I would have opted to zone and footsie Guile to force him to come to me.

I loved the OG Hurricane Kick to stuff Sonic Booms that's one classic Ryu vs Guile tactic...however, I wonder if you can punish things like c.mk on reaction with sweep in SSF:IV, lmao.

Look to 20934802394823903428 people now jumping on the Guile bandwagon now simply because Daigo used him and had success. My say is this to anyone who will jump ship from watching this video is that unless you have super fundamentals, you will not create the same scenario with Guile.

Also, I "should" go buy this game so I can play it, but then again, I probably won't have alot of time, sigh...I wished I was 15 again like I was back in the mid-90's, then I'd have more time to be messing with these fighting games.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Daigo was using alot of the core fundamentals of Guile that has been present since SFII, and simply just incorporating alot of the aspects into SSF:IV. Alot of things like Sonic Boom trade with Hadouken then Backfist Ryu, or Sonic Boom for buffer and bait, they jump, you go up and Air Throw, etc, etc. Guile also does better in SSF:IV due to the fact that everyone else got toned down, which helped, and his Sonic Hurricane looks to be viable up against projectile characters.

Regardless, Guile looks solid, but I still feel to this day, that they should have improved on his normals more then what was presented in SSF:IV, which was all that Guile would have needed to push him to become a very strong contender. Potentially with that beef, he could have "been" Top-Tier, and I wouldn't mind that because in order for Guile to be Top-Tier with that beef up, you would need to have SF fundamentals solidified to a good extent to make him that good anyhow.

Onto another set was with Alex Valle who obviously has been an aggressive player his entire career in fighting games, and I feel that had he resorted to zoning and playing footsie more with Ryu, he would have won over Daigo's Guile, even though it came down to the wire. Valle jumped in imo more then he should have, and allowed Daigo to beat him out in the projectile war on more then one occasion (which shouldn't happen when your Ryu). Not saying that I'm on Valle's level or that I would have been a better contender, however I would have opted to zone and footsie Guile to force him to come to me.

I loved the OG Hurricane Kick to stuff Sonic Booms that's one classic Ryu vs Guile tactic...however, I wonder if you can punish things like c.mk on reaction with sweep in SSF:IV, lmao.

Look to 20934802394823903428 people now jumping on the Guile bandwagon now simply because Daigo used him and had success. My say is this to anyone who will jump ship from watching this video is that unless you have super fundamentals, you will not create the same scenario with Guile.

Also, I "should" go buy this game so I can play it, but then again, I probably won't have alot of time, sigh...I wished I was 15 again like I was back in the mid-90's, then I'd have more time to be messing with these fighting games.

Call me crazy but I was talking to one of my mates and I told him to watch out for Daigo using Guile. I just knew it. The Alex Valle matches were fun and I missed the Wong rematch. Fighting the Guile army will be annoying, but Imma stay true to Ryu. Gonna learn Juri(god help me) and Cody too.

'Tellin' peeps Guile was good!

Doesn't really look that much better to me.

Dude has 4 (and possibly more) very good and "strong" ways to connect that U2 and he aint get nerfed anywhere near as bad as everyone else did. He can at the very least "hang" now.

SSF:IV Guile reminds me of a way like ST. Guile in a "sense", he's only good when you have the player with the right fundamentals to play him. Simply because Daigo can make Guile that good simply does not mean that Guile is that good. I don't take anything away, because when you play him right, he can be a contender (even in SF:IV!), however I feel against the stronger characters, when played right as well he will not bold as well.

That Valle match up imo should have swung into Valle's factor, but again, Valle is an aggressive player, and had he played more patiently, no way does Guile dominate like the way he did in that match up.

Other characters in which I feel are still stronger overall then Guile in SSF:IV are Ryu, Sagat, Gouki, Rufus, C. Viper, and Dudley just off the top of my head. He without a doubt definitely plays better then his SF:IV counterpart, but a couple months down the road, I don't see Guile going beyond Middle-Tier, which however would still be higher then his SF:IV listing though. So to me, even with the showing of Guile by Daigo, he's pretty much where I expected him to be...just slightly better, but not by a whole lot.

I really wished he had longer pokes, because if he did, he would arguably in my mind, be at worst Upper-Tier and would potentially be a contender for Top-Tier at that, all of his basics are good, he just needs longer pokes for his zoning game.

Some might say "But that will make him too good" however Guile was a character that you could simply not make that strong unless you had good fundamentals. Take in case to Street Fighter II : Hyper Fighting back in it's time, Guile was considered one of the best, with only arguably Ryu and Blanka being better overall then him, but coincidentally Tomo Ohira was the only player who could ever win with Guile consistently at all within the highest level of competitive play during that entire time within Hyper Fighting.

With that statement, SSF:IV Guile is nowhere near as good as HF. Guile so I doubt we'll see a whole bunch of Guile players coming out of the wook works to make him look as good as Daigo did with him. Also, to anyone who reads this, please do not think I'm "bashing" Guile, he is a solid character indeed, and with the right set of mind and fundamental play, you can make him strong, especially in SSF:IV where he is without question better then his original IV counterpart.

However, I just don't want people to start believing now that he's all of a sudden a Top-Tier character simply because Daigo happened to get to the end using him.

Nobody can really make asessments on tiers right now. 'Game just came out. For all we know, Guile could be the best dude in the game. People sure thought Rufus sucked at 1st and that Ken was gonna be the hot shit.

Lol, at how garbage Sentinel was when MVC2 1st hit arcades.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Nobody can really make asessments on tiers right now. 'Game just came out. For all we know, Guile could be the best dude in the game. People sure thought Rufus sucked at 1st and that Ken was gonna be the hot shit.

Lol, at how garbage Sentinel was when MVC2 1st hit arcades.

That's true, however my notion on Guile I feel holds more credibility simply because his improvements were not vast, and the fact that other characters like Ryu, Sagat, Gouki etc, got almost no real significant nerfs to them. From everything that's being said, I don't believe Guile to be any better then where I've placed him, if I'm proven wrong, cool.

Rufus, I didn't do too much about, however Ken when everyone was saying Ken>>>>Ryu, I simply laughed at them at Srk.com, with people stating that "Kara-Throws" and what not was going to make him "better" then Ryu, even though Ryu had the most stupid Ultra in the entire game.

I even called that Ryu when it's all said and done is at worse, Top-3 if not just slightly under Sagat when played right back when SF:IV first debuted and everyone stating at srk.com then bashed me saying that he was Top-8 and at the very best Top-6, and not only that, but they were content that his Ultra was too "weak" even though it had good combobility. I was considered a laughing stock for quite sometime and got tons of negative reps during that period (my negative red reputation bars was as high as 5 during one point within that SF:IV tenure due to my statement of Ryu lol) however obviously now they aren't laughing anymore.

No, I'm not saying I'm right either because at a time I said Claw was pretty pathetic in CvS2 when it first came out, and we all know he's like top-tier in that game now..

However just from whats been done to Guile's character, I don't see how is better then the characters I mentioned in my last post that has shown far more powerful options then Guile, especially for making one mistake, unless we find something for Guile that just pushes him to that level. I agree with you No End, tiers right now are more theory then anything, however I'm a man who enjoys theorizing about fighting game tiers "Pre-maturely" anyhow . 😛