No offense, but ALL cpu controlled bosses when you figure out their patterns are easy to stop, some more so then others, yes, even the SNK bosses once you learn their setups, or A2 Shin-Gouki, etc, etc.
Seth is one of the easiest cpu controlled bosses, even at the hardest level, I can do nothing but jump in fierce and sweep, and I would cleanly own Seth by just that tactic alone when baiting his obvious cpu tactics.
Why are we talking about Seth being broken anyhow? Either cpu or not, he's clearly not, and to be quite honest, he's by far one of the weakest cpu boss characters in the legit SF series (WW. Bison, ST. Akuma, A2 Shin-Gouki make him look like rabbit vomit). Also, please, enough about Tekken, my goodness, this is a Street Fighter Thread for crying out loud, talk about Tekken within the Tekken thread please.
Btw, here's a new Arcadia Tier Listing of Street Fighter IV, although I may not necessarily agree with the entire list, overall though, it's solid, and not too shabby. Btw, this is Arcade Tier, not Home Console Tier, however to be frank, if home console characters "were" tiered" into this, Dan would be in D, while Seth would be in B Rank, Gouken possibly at the lower end of B rank, and the rest would fall would likely fall within C.
S Rank: Sagat
A Rank: Ryu, Akuma, Zangief
B Rank: M.Bison, Rufus, Balrog, C.Viper, E.Honda
C Rank: Abel, El Fuerte, Dhalsim, Chun-li, Ken, Blanka
D Rank: Guile, Vega
This Tier List below is Daigo Umehara's overall opinion on Ryu's overall Match ups in Street Fighter IV
Ryu Match-up tier
4:6 Disadvantage: Sagat
5:5 Neutral: M.Bison, Balrog, Dhalsim, El Fuerte, Blanka
6:4 Advantage: Akuma, Zangief, C.Viper, E.Honda, Abel, Chun-li, Ken, Guile, Vega, Rufus
Sagat being in his own ranking does not, I repeat, does not make him overpowered, broken or whatever, he is still one of the best #1 characters in contrast to almost any fighting game out there currently and within the past, so nothing wrong with that, he's just slightly a notch better then the #2 character Ryu. Do we need to say anything about Ryu anymore? He's awesome in this game period, nuff said.
Viper has dropped down a few since her "supposed better then Ryu" status a few months back. I knew it was a fluke and stated that once people got the notion of how to fight her, that she would not be as good as claimed, which turned out exactly to be just that, hype.
Zangief is in my mind, no way as good as A-Tier, yes, he beats out the lower end of the cast pretty convincingly but he has tough matches against characters in S, A, and B (examples are Sagat, Ryu to name a few) which again makes absolutely no sense.
Consider this, when you just rank the Top 10 best characters against one another, Zangief is at the bottom of that list, and in fact, other characters like Viper, and definitely Rufus will do better overall. However again, weird to say the least, and brings me to the conclusion that they are ranking him that high simply by his points accumulated and the match ups overall. I feel strongly that Zangief should be in B-Rank, and that Rufus should actually move up to his spot in A-Rank.
Gouki ranking 3rd makes absolute sense to me, as I said earlier in my post months ago, that he was alot better then originally indicated. If the dude had a easy linkable Ultra, he would at the least be on par with Sagat, his BnB combos, and raw damage potential is absolutely incredible.
Anyhow, read and enjoy the Tier List
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Oh yeah I've seen plenty of poongko videos. He has some stylish combos and his overall aggressive Ryu is a nice change of pace. But I kindda knew he would be punished hardcore when the 3 national champs and Daigo met in that gamestop tourny. I hope he learned from the xp.
To be fair, Poongko's style of play is fine actually, and to be honest, it's super deadly, the only thing is, he just needs to refine his gameplay. He has super crazy reaction to punish skills, see how he was doing things with Ryu that even other top Ryu players like Daigo wasn't doing.
Poongko was punishing with Ultra on reaction, which was sick, and his match up between Daigo although it was a 4-1 to Daigo, they were alot more closer match ups then the win ratio dictates. Because most of those matches came down to one hit.
Poongko plays very aggressively, much like with the mentality of a Top Tekken Player great, Leedy. Not to mention guys like Justin Wong even stating that Poongko is serious business. Even during casuals Pre-Nationals with other Top-USA players, some of them were getting mopped by Poongko. The only thing he didn't have that the other National winners like Wong and Iyo had, was, that Poongko being in S. Korea does not have the full on exposure of playing against a vast majority of these characters. S. Korea only really started to pick up SF:IV with some steam in recent times.
So with this experience I look to S. Korea representing strongly at Evolution 2009 with Poongko.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Sagat is by far the best player in the game dude. 😬He IS overpowered.
He's not overpowered, believe me, he's got some glaring weaknesses that can be exploited.
- Very tall, and huge hit boxes
- Footsie game in contrast to other characters such as Ryu is vastly inferior.
- Moves very slow
Yes, his advantages are definitely very good, however they aren't full proof, nor do there any over priority moves that can't be negated but just good play. This is why Sagat is one of the best #1 characters to show up in a long time, take this into contrast to other #1 first installment SF characters.
WW. Guile was absolutely overpowered and owned everyone in that game, Alpha 1 Guy had absolutely no bad match ups in Alpha 1, however he had 50x more high priority moves then Sagat (s.mk, hurricane, sweep, flip grab *this move was sick*, etc etc), or SFIII:NG Ibuki (Infinity, super chains, easy dizzy combos, and a combo goddess).
SF:IV Sagat is about as dominant as Hyper Fighting Ryu was, which is very good, considering Ryu was strong in HF, but not overpowered.
dude, everyone is beatable once you figure out their pattern. it doesn't stop them from being broken though. I did beat Seth, I beat the game with several characters. he's not unbeatable, yes, but he's definitely broken as phuck. same goes for Igniz, Rugal2002, Magaki and all the other shitwads that SNK has hurled at us from the gutter of shit bosses they've got. they are ALL beatable once you figure out the pattern but that does little to make them "not broken".
and I agree with Nemebro: Sagat is an overpowered SOB. always has been. oh and he's a cheap bastard.
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TIGER UPPERCUT!
phuck that... 🙄
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22and I agree with Nemebro: Sagat is an overpowered SOB. always has been. oh and he's a cheap bastard.
tiger
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TIGER UPPERCUT!phuck that... 🙄
~Sado
The above - however true it may be - is not an example of a Broken Character. And people using him and spamming Tiger fireballs, is not an example of a Broken character...it's just an example of how a Bad Sagat player plays.
Thats ALL it is and nothing more. If anyone finds Tiger spamming a serious threat in this game, then maybe you're just not an acomplished enough Street Fighter player, and thus deserved to dispatched by a SIMPLE Tiger Spam. He's strong, and his Ultra is extremely life draining, but he's slow, his kick game is WEAK. His fireballs leave him open, his uppercut has a poor recovery. He's not any less beatable that any other character played by someone who knows how to use them.
The above - however true it may be - is not an example of a Broken Character. And people using him and spamming Tiger fireballs, is not an example of a Broken character...it's just an example of how a Bad Sagat player plays.
and I agree with Nemebro: Sagat is an overpowered SOB. always has been. oh and he's a cheap bastard.
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TIGER UPPERCUT!phuck that...
Thats ALL it is and nothing more. If anyone finds Tiger spamming a serious threat in this game, then maybe you're just not an acomplished enough Street Fighter player, and thus deserved to dispatched by a SIMPLE Tiger Spam. He's strong, and his Ultra is extremely life draining, but he's slow, his kick game is WEAK. His fireballs leave him open, his uppercut has a poor recovery. He's not any less beatable that any other character played by someone who knows how to use them.
~Sado
Sado, all you're proving is that you're a crappy player. If someone spamming Tiger Shots is all it takes to beat you, then you my friend, ARE A SCRUB.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub
And geeze man, Magaki, Igniz, Rugal'02? You're comparing him to bosses who actually are broken? All 3 of those guys are ludicrously overpowered. That's why if they have player versions, they're toned down.
Even the best guys with Seth would admit you can lose just as easily as you can win. Seth has a crystal jaw, he spams teleport because if he doesn't, he gets raped by hit-trading. 'Gief can hit-trade due to his huge stamina, as can a few others. But for Seth, that's a suicidal course.
As for the Tiger Shot, here's a few counters. Spam your own damn fireball. Use a stronger fireball, like one with 2 or more hits. Use reflect moves (though that might only be Rose). Dodge the fireball. Roll past it with Abel. Use hyper-armor to approach and attack. Use SA to tank the hits for ultra-meter.
of course, I doubt you'll understand any of this. 🙄
People need to realize that Fagat's like to Tiger Shot to death because they don't want you getting anywhere close to them. All you guys need to do is to cautiously approach him. If you get desperate and perform bad jumpins you'll be getting creamed. What I usually do with Ryu is enter the fireball war until the 4th FB is shot that will hit Ryu...then I either neutral jump or crouch and slowly move forward and enter the FB war again. I don't really like to FA the fireballs in the first round because IMO it is better to build the super gauge. Heck the revenge gauge will fill itself as the fight progresses(well I do FA every once in a while, but I try not to...because good Sagats will bait you and then punish hardcore) Then once I've closed in on him I try to keep the ideal distance of dMK. I also <3 how Ryu's sweep has more Range than Sagat's.
Originally posted by Sado22
dude, everyone is beatable once you figure out their pattern. it doesn't stop them from being broken though. I did beat Seth, I beat the game with several characters. he's not unbeatable, yes, but he's definitely broken as phuck. same goes for Igniz, Rugal2002, Magaki and all the other shitwads that SNK has hurled at us from the gutter of shit bosses they've got. they are ALL beatable once you figure out the pattern but that does little to make them "not broken".and I agree with Nemebro: Sagat is an overpowered SOB. always has been. oh and he's a cheap bastard.
tiger
tiger
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tiger
tiger
tiger
oooh, low tiger
tiger
tiger
....and...
tiger
tiger
tiger
tiger
tiger
tiger
TIGER UPPERCUT!phuck that... 🙄
~Sado
nonono.. its low tiger spam, and then a high tiger every now and then.. if you do the opposite you're gonna get whooped
and uppercut is kinda pointless when EX Knee will send them sailing across the stage again for more tiger-fest
Originally posted by Zack Fair
People need to realize that Fagat's like to Tiger Shot to death because they don't want you getting anywhere close to them. All you guys need to do is to cautiously approach him. If you get desperate and perform bad jumpins you'll be getting creamed. What I usually do with Ryu is enter the fireball war until the 4th FB is shot that will hit Ryu...then I either neutral jump or crouch and slowly move forward and enter the FB war again. I don't really like to FA the fireballs in the first round because IMO it is better to build the super gauge. Heck the revenge gauge will fill itself as the fight progresses(well I do FA every once in a while, but I try not to...because good Sagats will bait you and then punish hardcore) Then once I've closed in on him I try to keep the ideal distance of dMK. I also <3 how Ryu's sweep has more Range than Sagat's.
I'd rather throw a shakunetsu for distraction and then air travel hurricane for distance closing... if the input system wasnt so bitchy that is
Originally posted by Juk3n
t's just an example of how a Bad Sagat player plays.
No.. thats how a good sagat player plays... very vicious fireball wall, with very secure pokes to keep them from jumping in... are you even playing the same game?.. 😂
Sagat is a character who is supposed to pummel you to death with Tiger Shots. That's where his strength is supposed to derive from, because he is a powerful zoning character. To assume that Sagat is overpowered due to this is absolutely ridiculous.
You might not know this, but Sagat is one of the few that overall is just a near perfect well made fighting game character. He has great zoning projectiles, good solid reach, great raw damage power, that's simply a fluke that happened to make him consistent in most of the games he's been in.
However, again you make it sound like as though it's a "school walk" to do Tiger shots all day, however I tell you this, alot of thought goes into how to position well with projectiles, which is why no random Sagat player can simply shoot Tiger Shots and expect to win.
Also, Sagat does have reach, which is a no brainer, however again, look at his slow pace. At mid to close range if I'm Ryu, Sagat has to fear my footsie games, because Ryu punishes far better then Sagat within this department. Sagat also can't just throw Tiger Shots all day, or risk anything too highly due to the fact ShoryukenxxFADC on punish ='s Pain.
Sagat is a good strong character, however when you know the match up, he's not Overpowered. The problem is, you have to learn how to deal with fireballs, and how to make your character get in, yes, some do it better then others, that's just the way it is, however it's not impossible.
This isn't even the Sagat of the Street Fighter II days, where the Tiger Shots fly at 10,000 mph across the stage, and even then, people still found effective ways to get around it. Also, in SF:IV you have options with Ex-Options, FA, dashes and all that has helped greatly in dealing with fireballs, again, it's up to you the player to grasp the concept and deal with them.
Basically, you need to quit crying and understand the gameplay, the characters, how they play, the concepts and incorporate it into your gameplay, so that you become better. Everything that your talking about, that's really just newbie level stuff man. Anyone who comes to me saying Fireballs are so cheap, I can't deal with it, and it's too overpowered yadi yada, gives me every indication, they never took the time to even become solid at the game.
Find out ways around it and I guarantee you'll realize it's not as tough as you once thought. Of course Sagat will still be able to hammer you with Tiger Shots, that's his strength, however when you get solid at getting around them, this sets fear into Sagat players which will make them more prone of just pinning you down with Tiger Shots.
Again, the Muay Thai Fighter is not overpowered in Street Fighter IV, truly learn the match up, and it's not as bad as you once thought.
Originally posted by NemeBro
I main Balrog.I has no fireballs. 🙁
Balrog's Ex-dash moves are feared for a reason. You just need good timing and a bit of mix-up. Balrog is meant to be played as a rushdown guy. CORNER THE BASTARD. Balrog's moves all have hyper armor EX variants. You can whale on Sagat by forcing him to adapt to your attacks. If he has to play at your pace (IE: Rushdown as opposed to zoning), he'll be at a disadvantage. Just watch out for the knee and upper. I'm not sure if Balrog's moves have higher priority than Sagat's. Your SA may not have much range, but the hyper armor adds up and it lets you set up your Crazy Buffalo. A dash attack canceled into the ultra or super, and suddenly Sagat is playing pure defense to stay alive.
Btw, Justframe, in japan the Focus Attack is called the Saving Attack, so if I refer to SA, I'm refering to the FA.