Originally posted by Papa SmurphThe Hulk doesnt have any of Supes weaknesses and didnt have his power cosmic. Sorry but the Surfer has been upgraded which means he beats Superman easier than he would before the upgrade.
Yeah, which means now he can use energy based attacks. Did Surfer look any-less formidable in the physical department in the Hulk fight?
Originally posted by quanchi112
If you took away Surfers power cosmic Supes would beat him down. But in this thread he has the power cosmic and therefore he wins.
The only thing the power cosmic even adds is energy blasts, energy absorption and some matter manip abilities we never see pulled off mid-battle.
Originally posted by Papa SmurphThe whole reason the Surfer is as powerful as he is. It is because of the power cosmic. It can literally almost do anything. Supes loses here. I cant believe you are trying to say that the Surfer without his power cosmic would fight in the same way that he did against the Hulk.
The only thing the power cosmic even adds is energy blasts, energy absorption and some matter manip abilities we never see pulled off mid-battle.
Originally posted by quanchi112
The whole reason the Surfer is as powerful as he is. It is because of the power cosmic. It can literally almost do anything. Supes loses here. I cant believe you are trying to say that the Surfer without his power cosmic would fight in the same way that he did against the Hulk.
It can literally do anything
But when we see Surfer fight using power cosmic that mostly means shoot and hit stuff
Originally posted by quanchi112
Uhm he can do whatever he wants. Your argument is that he just shoots blasts. You are ignoring the power cosmic altogether.
So when we see Surfer fight people like Thanos and Thor
he's matter manipulating their body parts into cotton and forming black holes inside their skull while mind raping them and using cosmic awareness to scan for weaknesses?
Who wields more raw power is obviously debatable. In fairness, perhaps, one could say they're about equal, or at least one does not have a significant edge over the other.
What is much more clear is...
Superman has a closed powerset. You can sum it up fairly quickly: he's everything a human is, amped to the nth degree. The only two powers you have to tack on (cuz there's no human equivalent) are flight and heat vision. In any event, Superman can do some pretty amazing things, including things that are not immediately obvious with this closed powerset. In effect, when writers are creative, they can have Superman mimic a more open powerset.
The Surfer has a genuinely open powerset. Aside from a few basic ground rules, he can do virtually anything. His powerset is so open, one could logically extrapolate abilities never even demonstrated (like fly w/o his goddamn board), as long as the few basic ground rules are observed (I know I'm speaking in generalities and should be providing examples, but I'm being lazy).
Given the above: the Surfer is more versatile than Superman even without that "extra creativity" Superman needs to mimic versatility. But moreso: imagine if the same creative stretch given to Superman were granted the Surfer.
That, coupled with a comparable power level; coupled with the fact that Superman has definite weaknesses while the Surfer does not...I just don't see how Superman could take the majority.
(BTW, don't Forum rules state that opponents have full knowledge of each other's strengths and weaknesses, unless stated otherwise in the OP? If this is so, then Surfer's gonna know right away what he needs to do, and he is capable of nanosec reaction times. (Translation: a successful speedblitz is not a given. Again, for the sake of fairness, we will assume that S and SS have comparable power levels, even if their powersets are very different.))
Also, for what it's worth, these are my two favorite characters, so I'm really trying to see this as objectvely as possible.
Originally posted by MindshipExcellent post. 👆
Who wields more raw power is obviously debatable. In fairness, perhaps, one could say they're about equal, or at least one does not have a significant edge over the other.What is much more clear is...
Superman has a closed powerset. You can sum it up fairly quickly: he's everything a human is, amped to the nth degree. The only two powers you have to tack on (cuz there's no human equivalent) are flight and heat vision. In any event, Superman can do some pretty amazing things, including things that are not immediately obvious with this closed powerset. In effect, when writers are creative, they can have Superman mimic a more open powerset.
The Surfer has a genuinely open powerset. Aside from a few basic ground rules, he can do virtually anything. His powerset is so open, one could logically extrapolate abilities never even demonstrated (like fly w/o his goddamn board), as long as the few basic ground rules are observed (I know I'm speaking in generalities and should be providing examples, but I'm being lazy).
Given the above: the Surfer is more versatile than Superman even without that "extra creativity" Superman needs to mimic versatility. But moreso: imagine if the same creative stretch given to Superman were granted the Surfer.
That, coupled with a comparable power level; coupled with the fact that Superman has definite weaknesses while the Surfer does not...I just don't see how Superman could take the majority.
(BTW, don't Forum rules state that opponents have full knowledge of each other's strengths and weaknesses, unless stated otherwise in the OP? If this is so, then Surfer's gonna know right away what he needs to do, and he is capable of nanosec reaction times. (Translation: a successful speedblitz is not a given. Again, for the sake of fairness, we will assume that S and SS have comparable power levels, even if their powersets are very different.))
Also, for what it's worth, these are my two favorite characters, so I'm really trying to see this as objectvely as possible.
Originally posted by MindshipVery nicely done. 👆
Who wields more raw power is obviously debatable. In fairness, perhaps, one could say they're about equal, or at least one does not have a significant edge over the other.What is much more clear is...
Superman has a closed powerset. You can sum it up fairly quickly: he's everything a human is, amped to the nth degree. The only two powers you have to tack on (cuz there's no human equivalent) are flight and heat vision. In any event, Superman can do some pretty amazing things, including things that are not immediately obvious with this closed powerset. In effect, when writers are creative, they can have Superman mimic a more open powerset.
The Surfer has a genuinely open powerset. Aside from a few basic ground rules, he can do virtually anything. His powerset is so open, one could logically extrapolate abilities never even demonstrated (like fly w/o his goddamn board), as long as the few basic ground rules are observed (I know I'm speaking in generalities and should be providing examples, but I'm being lazy).
Given the above: the Surfer is more versatile than Superman even without that "extra creativity" Superman needs to mimic versatility. But moreso: imagine if the same creative stretch given to Superman were granted the Surfer.
That, coupled with a comparable power level; coupled with the fact that Superman has definite weaknesses while the Surfer does not...I just don't see how Superman could take the majority.
(BTW, don't Forum rules state that opponents have full knowledge of each other's strengths and weaknesses, unless stated otherwise in the OP? If this is so, then Surfer's gonna know right away what he needs to do, and he is capable of nanosec reaction times. (Translation: a successful speedblitz is not a given. Again, for the sake of fairness, we will assume that S and SS have comparable power levels, even if their powersets are very different.))
Also, for what it's worth, these are my two favorite characters, so I'm really trying to see this as objectvely as possible.
Originally posted by Juntai
Surfer tried and failed to absorb a sun before. It was too much power for him.
Originally posted by llagrok
Not really.If he had accomplished it, then it would've been a feat.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
For surfer to evn be trying to absorb a sun shows the extent of his energy absorbing powers. Superman certainly does not contain even near the total energy of the sun. Not even sundipped supes does. All surfer has to do is absorb all the energy within supermans cells, which would be really easy for someone on his lvl. Surfer has absorbed other stars that contain far more energy than superman. TO show the amount of energy he can contain, he is able to create blackholes which can be multiple times the size of the sun.
Lulz. Even if surfer absorbed just 1/8 of the red star it is far FAAAR greater than the solar energy superman is packing.
Superman has a limit area space that makes up his body. Mass + Area, that would hold all his solar energy reserves.
That shit would be childs play to SS. He would drain him effortlessly with both hands tied behind his nutsack.
But that isn't the only option with supes...
Also an attack combo of the 3 is another option. Besides Surfers other powers that could still harm Superman even though they are not his weakness. People have hurt supers with just blasting him before.
Lastly. About superman giving everyone trouble....
This fight doesn't take place in a superman comic book.
Surfer gets the majority here. He has the tools to get the job done. Im even hesitant to say supes gets a couple of wins just because he is superman. Which is a dumb reason in its self.
Its funny that PIS is acceptable in this fight by some just because its superman. 😬
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
dDoesnt give him the win anwyawy. *shrug*
Sure it doesn't if you want to be in some kind of denial.
I just showed him warping reality back while fighting legions of bizarros. Using it to up his defenses against attacks, mind attacking, casting illusions, and fighting independently from all this.
This in addition to all his other crazy supersh*t.
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
You know he didn't teleport?He stated that he felt faster... and since he wasn't actually faster... logic dictates he was teleporting.
Err...
Thanos said that it didnt make him faster. 😐 Anyway Runner did not use the space gem when he fought Thanos, thats the point.
Originally posted by Papa Smurph
Yeah, he took on Hulk and got whomped. Superman's weakness can be as exploited as Surfer's physical prowess.
Thats just one showing a severly weakened SS beat up Abomination. 😐
Originally posted by Avlon
Sure it doesn't if you want to be in some kind of denial.
Ive given it a 5/10 split...get off my case. I think thats pretty generous considering the stuff I have to deal with as well.
Originally posted by Avlon
I just showed him warping reality back while fighting legions of bizarros. Using it to up his defenses against attacks, mind attacking, casting illusions, and fighting independently from all this.This in addition to all his other crazy supersh*t.
Well why did Superman say that "you left me alone in captivity too long?"