Superman vs Silver surfer

Started by h1a8387 pages

Originally posted by Mindship
Who wields more raw power is obviously debatable. In fairness, perhaps, one could say they're about equal, or at least one does not have a significant edge over the other.

What is much more clear is...

Superman has a closed powerset. You can sum it up fairly quickly: he's everything a human is, amped to the nth degree. The only two powers you have to tack on (cuz there's no human equivalent) are flight and heat vision. In any event, Superman can do some pretty amazing things, including things that are not immediately obvious with this closed powerset. In effect, when writers are creative, they can have Superman mimic a more open powerset.

The Surfer has a genuinely open powerset. Aside from a few basic ground rules, he can do virtually anything. His powerset is so open, one could logically extrapolate abilities never even demonstrated (like fly w/o his goddamn board), as long as the few basic ground rules are observed (I know I'm speaking in generalities and should be providing examples, but I'm being lazy).

Given the above: the Surfer is more versatile than Superman even without that "extra creativity" Superman needs to mimic versatility. But moreso: imagine if the same creative stretch given to Superman were granted the Surfer.

That, coupled with a comparable power level; coupled with the fact that Superman has definite weaknesses while the Surfer does not...I just don't see how Superman could take the majority.

(BTW, don't Forum rules state that opponents have full knowledge of each other's strengths and weaknesses, unless stated otherwise in the OP? If this is so, then Surfer's gonna know right away what he needs to do, and he is capable of nanosec reaction times. (Translation: a successful speedblitz is not a given. Again, for the sake of fairness, we will assume that S and SS have comparable power levels, even if their powersets are very different.))

Also, for what it's worth, these are my two favorite characters, so I'm really trying to see this as objectvely as possible.

SS doesn't have nanosecond reaction times.
1000 scans showing the opposite vs. only 1 invalid scan that shows figurative language and hyperbole proves that the 1 scan is PIS at best (by Definition).

So Superman koing SS at the start is not only the best strategy but something SS can't avoid. Supes wins.

P.S. SS resistance to heat is finite. Firelord's heat was too much for SS when they fought. Superman's heat vision is hotter than the core of any star. Thus it is comparable to Firelord's heat. This is not to say that Superman will use his HV against SS, but just to point out to the previous posters that Superman's HV can hurt SS.

Originally posted by Inhuman

Lulz. Even if surfer absorbed just 1/8 of the red star it is far FAAAR greater than the solar energy superman is packing.
Superman has a limit area space that makes up his body. Mass + Area, that would hold all his solar energy reserves.
That shit would be childs play to SS. He would drain him effortlessly with both hands tied behind his nutsack.

My friend you should take a real science course. Volume doesn't equal mass. And mass is important here, not volume.
A red giant on average has less mass than that of our Sun.
In several billion years from now our Sun (as with most stars) will burn out of much of its fuel and expand to become a red giant swallowing up some planets (most likely Earth).

Supes blitzs SS the instant the bell sounds for the win. SS doesn't have a chance do make a move.

Originally posted by h1a8
SS doesn't have nanosecond reaction times.
1000 scans showing the opposite vs. only 1 invalid scan that shows figurative language and hyperbole proves that the 1 scan is PIS at best (by Definition).

So Superman koing SS at the start is not only the best strategy but something SS can't avoid. Supes wins.

You are basically taking the mick. 😐

Originally posted by h1a8

P.S. SS resistance to heat is finite. Firelord's heat was too much for SS when they fought. Superman's heat vision is hotter than the core of any star. Thus it is comparable to Firelord's heat. This is not to say that Superman will use his HV against SS, but just to point out to the previous posters that Superman's HV can hurt SS.

Firelords heat is cosmic energy in the form of flames. 😐

Hell if you wanna compare Supes to Firelord look what SS does here.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9910/silversurfer198901921ts2.jpg

Hell if he can do that to Firelord cant see why he cant do something similar to Superman, sorry I think im giving SS the majority again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Very nicely done. 👆

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Excellent post. 👆
Thanks.

Originally posted by h1a8
SS doesn't have nanosecond reaction times.
1000 scans showing the opposite vs. only 1 invalid scan that shows figurative language and hyperbole proves that the 1 scan is PIS at best (by Definition).
PIS is always a tough call, and it's a sword that cuts both ways.
"By definition"? Please explain. That a Forum rule?
"Invalid?" "Hyperbole"? Again, PIS can work against Superman just as well as against the Surfer, probably moreso, given the "Flagship Status" of Big Blue.

Regardless, nanosec reaction times are entirely within the Surfer's powerset. But what the heck: for argument's sake, let's say Superman launches a speedblitz before the Surfer can attack. Since Forum rules allow for mutual knowledge of strengths and weaknesses, the Surfer is prepared, either by already being phased, having a cosmic shield in place; hell, it is within the Surfer's powerset that he could enter the fray already surrounded by warped space (sending Superman flying in circles long enough for him to launch an attack); already radiating red sunlight, yada yada yada...

Now that I think of it, power cosmic can be almost as annoying as magic as a plot device. Thank God "power cosmic" sounds so much cooler... 😎

Surfer could just form a couple of wormholes behind Superman's eyeballs... blinding superman and having his face sucked into his eyeholes by the gravity.

it's quite difficult to conceive of a scenario in which Surfer loves to Superman ... perhaps if he were to just stand there and let Superman attack him for an hour or two ... 😕

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer could just form a couple of wormholes behind Superman's eyeballs... blinding superman and having his face sucked into his eyeholes by the gravity.

Which the Surfer does all the time.

Originally posted by llagrok
Which the Surfer does all the time.
I was about to make a similar comment, but this guy isn't worth the effort. In another thread, he was claiming Surfer would destroy the whole JLA, with two GLs, Superman, WW, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and some others, by himself effortlessly.

Even so much as to say that they would be dead within the first 1/100000th of a nano-second.

Originally posted by Juntai
I was about to make a similar comment, but this guy isn't worth the effort. In another thread, he was claiming Surfer would destroy the whole JLA, with two GLs, Superman, WW, Martian Manhunter, Flash, and some others, by himself effortlessly.

Even so much as to say that they would be dead within the first 1/100000th of a nano-second.

Which is pretty sad 🙁

Originally posted by llagrok
Which is pretty sad 🙁
Originally posted by janus77
regular Surfer's taken a beating from creatures far above Guardians, and survived to complete his mission...

SBP does sound powerful, but more so physically than anything else. what top tiers did he beat? I don't know if Exiles Surfer could replicate the feat but I'm certain a regular 616 Surfer would rip through GLs, Flashes and Supermans without much trouble if he wanted to. Surfer has the powers and the speed to accomplish that at the very least, imo.

What characters can easily one shot Superman?

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer, Thanos, Hulk.

Originally posted by janus77

come on, Surfer's far stronger and more durable than Superman, far faster.

This one is one of my favorites.

Originally posted by janus77
Hal and John would be beaten pdq by Surfer, on his way to slaughtering Flash. let's say Surfer changes every molecule of his body into Kryptonite, whilst twisting Flash's head off at 100x C... causing Superman to double-over in spasms. thus the 'fight' begins

More of Surfer on the recieving end of a physical fight.[To match the several already shown or discussed.] Oh, and his nano-second reactions and speed are in full display.

I recall a moment (there are many, but this wtf?? one just popped into mind) from Superman/Batman (Public Enemies?) where Metallo fires a green-K bullet at Superman. Superman sees the bullet coming (just note his expression), and still fails to dodge it. So much for "Faster than..."

This is the problem with uber-powered characters: in addition to PIS, there are also jobbing moments. Regarding the above: if Superman had dodged the freakin' bullet, then Batman wouldn't have been able to seem useful.

Surfer jobs? What a suprise, especially since his master, the Big G, is one of the biggest jobbers around.

Originally posted by Juntai
More of Surfer on the recieving end of a physical fight.[To match the several already shown or discussed.] Oh, and his nano-second reactions and speed are in full display.

Oh ok so what does that prove? SS while weakened beat Abomination, SS beat Champion, SS has beaten Firelord. Heres SS giving Thor hell...

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6692/silversurferv1004p042ul2.jpg

Great one scan with SS getting hit in the head. Superman wins 10/10 👆

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Oh ok so what does that prove? SS while weakened beat Abomination, SS beat Champion, SS has beaten Firelord. Heres SS giving Thor hell...

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6692/silversurferv1004p042ul2.jpg

Great one scan with SS getting hit in the head. Superman wins 10/10 👆

I never said that much, or suggested as much.
And I showed far more than one scan of Surfer getting abused physically, I showed several of them across many pages all through this thread.

Originally posted by Juntai
I've already said earlier that Silver Surfer has the tools to defeat Superman, but Superman certainly has the tools to beat Surfer as well. I'm not the one here having trouble accepting the truth.

It was more a shot at the purists who believe Superman has no shot in this encounter, sort of like the guy I replied to who seemed to suggest Surfer wouldn't even be troubled with a guy like him.

You already said you feel Superman takes half.
Obviously my scans aren't meant for you, then..but I've showed nearly a dozen examples of Surfer getting overwhelmed in physical combat, many of them by beings who would have a tough time repeating such against Superman in physical combat.

But go ahead and keep trolling me and making stupid comments like you did there, it just gives me more opportunities to make you look like an idiot. Not that you need my help by the vast ammount of respect you command.

Originally posted by Juntai
I never said that much, or suggested as much.
And I showed far more than one scan of Surfer getting abused physically, I showed several of them across many pages all through this thread.

My bad.

Originally posted by Juntai

You already said you feel Superman takes half.
Obviously my scans aren't meant for you, then..but I've showed nearly a dozen examples of Surfer getting overwhelmed in physical combat, many of them by beings who would have a tough time repeating such against Superman in physical combat.

I dunno man im kinda still verging towards SS. After seeing scans of this.

Originally posted by Inhuman
[B]

/B]

I mean the things is SS has shown time and time again to able to adapt his powers on the fly. Even if Superman has an advantage in H2H, SS is fast enough to cope. I mean 1 option is to create a forcefield while he thinks of a plan. The forcefield wont last forever but it could probably last long enough.

Also red sun radiation seems to be different from just draining Supermans solar energy. Red sun radiation it could be argued stops him from replenshing his energy supply.

Originally posted by Mindship
I recall a moment (there are many, but this wtf?? one just popped into mind) from Superman/Batman (Public Enemies?) where Metallo fires a green-K bullet at Superman. Superman sees the bullet coming (just note his expression), and still fails to dodge it. So much for "Faster than..."

This is the problem with uber-powered characters: in addition to PIS, there are also jobbing moments. Regarding the above: if Superman had dodged the freakin' bullet, then Batman wouldn't have been able to seem useful.

I recall a moment in "For Tomorrow" where Superman moves faster than bullets that have already been fired.

Originally posted by Mindship
Surfer jobs? What a suprise, especially since his master, the Big G, is one of the biggest jobbers around.

Now that's just stupid.

Originally posted by llagrok
I recall a moment in "For Tomorrow" where Superman moves faster than bullets that have already been fired.
Exactly my point! Superman should always be faster...but in Public Enemies he wasn't. This is why using PIS or jobbing moments to make a point, well, you said it best...
Now that's just stupid.
Originally posted by Mindship
Exactly my point! Superman should always be faster...but in Public Enemies he wasn't. This is why using PIS or jobbing moments to make a point, well, you said it best...

Somebody just smacked it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
My bad.

I dunno man im kinda still verging towards SS. After seeing scans of this.

I mean the things is SS has shown time and time again to able to adapt his powers on the fly. Even if Superman has an advantage in H2H, SS is fast enough to cope. I mean 1 option is to create a forcefield while he thinks of a plan. The forcefield wont last forever but it could probably last long enough.

Also red sun radiation seems to be different from just draining Supermans solar energy. Red sun radiation it could be argued stops him from replenshing his energy supply.


However, Superman has overcome his weakness time and time again, you can show dozens of instances of it being used, and I can show dozens of instances of it being overcome with great or little effort. In a more recent encounter, he was at ground zero of a 50 supernova blast while drained under a red sun. And not only wasn't KOed, but flew away unharmed.

And using a crossover event that had to focus on so many characters doesn't show them all at the height of their prowess the whole time.
Plus, Superman pretty much railroaded everyone he came into contact with in that story.

For instance, I could argue that 3 punches from Superman knocked Thor unconscious in that story, and Thor and BRB have both been seen overwhelming Surfer in physical combat.

Oh yah, and Superman wasn't defeated by those two, btw. Good try though. 🙂

In another crossover, since we're using them as evidence here apperently, Darkseid and Thanos were near equals.

Also in the Runner/Surfer vs Hal/Superman thread, in response to a mentioning of Superman beating Darkseid you said.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok I was under the impression that Darkseid was around Thanos's level.

So maybe it should be discussed in this thread- the implications of Thanos vs Surfer, and Darkseid vs Superman. And which characters catches the bad end of severe beating in the two encounters...

Originally posted by Juntai
However, Superman has overcome his weakness time and time again, you can show dozens of instances of it being used, and I can show dozens of instances of it being overcome with great or little effort. In a more recent encounter, he was at ground zero of a 50 supernova blast while drained under a red sun. And not only wasn't KOed, but flew away unharmed.

And using a crossover event that had to focus on so many characters doesn't show them all at the height of their prowess the whole time.
Plus, Superman pretty much railroaded everyone he came into contact with in that story.

For instance, I could argue that 3 punches from Superman knocked Thor unconscious in that story, and Thor and BRB have both been seen overwhelming Surfer in physical combat.

Oh yah, and Superman wasn't defeated by those two, btw. Good try though. 🙂

In another crossover, since we're using them as evidence here apperently, Darkseid and Thanos were near equals.

Also in the Runner/Surfer vs Hal/Superman thread, in response to a mentioning of Superman beating Darkseid you said.

So maybe it should be discussedin this thread- the implications of Thanos vs Surfer, and Darkseid vs Superman. And which characters catches the bad end of severe beating in the two encounters...

Uh Oh I sense hostility in that post, anyway I think im back on a 5/5 split. Both sides have good arguments but nothing conclusive.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Uh Oh I sense hostility in that post, anyway I think im back on a 5/5 split. Both sides have good aruments but nothing conclusive.
It's always hard to make things conclusive in threads with characters on this scale. That's why I just acknowledged both of the characters have the ability to beat the other. The rest is just opinion and/or bias.