This is my take on this long running thread...
Both have the ability to beat each other.speed strength etc..
i actually think supes has better speedblitz feats with his fist and powers
all out flight speed i think goes to the surfer
Superman gets his power from the sun- a yellow sun(blue suns... well that's fairly new)
Surfer is powered by cosmic radiation-almost all sources
Superman has used a special mind technique T.VO?
Surfer has energy and matter transmutation
Etc....
That said...i believe that superman has his weaknesses and needs for energy sources that can be exploited by surfer and surfer does have cosmic awareness
I am no way trying to make it seem supes has no chance but when everything is taken into consideration in a close match like this...
Surfer can exploit supermans vulnerabilities
Superman might be able to use his senses to find one in surfers DNA?
Surfer for the majority
Silver Surfer hasn't consistently shown combat speed even close to Superman's level. Saying he is fast enough to analyze and exploit Superman's weakness before Superman knocks him out is just an idiotic assumption.
Even if he did somehow manage to make Kryptonite, there's absolutley no guarantee it would work seeing as how apparently Kryptonite from different Universes doesn't have an effect. And even if he did, it's not like it means instant win. During Infinite Crisis, he transported Superboy Prime through Kryptonite, flew through a Red Sun and still got up and won.
Not to mention that a few months ago he fought a group hunting and killing down kryptonians with specific made weapons. He was attacked with Red solar explosive (which I might add, like he stated, doesn't hold out for long in the open sunlight) , then with with artificial made Kryptonite bullets, then with a vibro cannon which made his molecules shudder and still kept going.
Also,when he took red sun radiation blasts from a Red Sun Eater while simultaneously carying an entropy bomb inside it. After all this, he still took an explosion about fifty times the size of a supernova and wasn't even knocked out.
Drag the solar energy out of him ? You mean like Darkstar, who practically became the unified field, tried to do ? She was even affecting temportal particles with her power. Not to mention that in this instance, Superman voluntarely jumped in front of the attack in order to help Supergirl. This didn't stop Supergirl, who took control of Superman's body, to speed blitz and knock down Darkstar.
I don't think there's even a need to mention victories Superman has over various adversaries more powerfull than SS. Superman could also take SS to the sun similar to how he did to Darkseid or Wonder Woman and kick the crap out of him.
So, like I said, Superman takes this.
Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
Silver Surfer hasn't consistently shown combat speed even close to Superman's level. Saying he is fast enough to analyze and exploit Superman's weakness before Superman knocks him out is just an idiotic assumption.Even if he did somehow manage to make Kryptonite, there's absolutley no guarantee it would work seeing as how apparently Kryptonite from different Universes doesn't have an effect. And even if he did, it's not like it means instant win. During Infinite Crisis, he transported Superboy Prime through Kryptonite, flew through a Red Sun and still got up and won.
Not to mention that a few months ago he fought a group hunting and killing down kryptonians with specific made weapons. He was attacked with Red solar explosive (which I might add, like he stated, doesn't hold out for long in the open sunlight) , then with with artificial made Kryptonite bullets, then with a vibro cannon which made his molecules shudder and still kept going.
Also,when he took red sun radiation blasts from a Red Sun Eater while simultaneously carying an entropy bomb inside it. After all this, he still took an explosion about fifty times the size of a supernova and wasn't even knocked out.
Drag the solar energy out of him ? You mean like Darkstar, who practically became the unified field, tried to do ? She was even affecting temportal particles with her power. Not to mention that in this instance, Superman voluntarely jumped in front of the attack in order to help Supergirl. This didn't stop Supergirl, who took control of Superman's body, to speed blitz and knock down Darkstar.
I don't think there's even a need to mention victories Superman has over various adversaries more powerfull than SS. Superman could also take SS to the sun similar to how he did to Darkseid or Wonder Woman and kick the crap out of him.
So, like I said, Superman takes this.
Bro you need to stop picking all the high showings and take a balanced view. Hell I have two Superman issues. One were he struggles to throw a missle another where he has trouble fighting a guy who uses the strength of the ocean against him.
Something tells me that Superman does not always perform that well, but other times he does. So really its 5/5 each.
Finally lets put this to rest superman is cool and all and it would be his best present day feat but he did not take the full 50 super nova explosion - he was saved by his adopted father. He did get hit by the emp of 50 novas though. Also could hulk use the fact that novas release gamma busts to an advantage in another fight? Probably wouldn't be able to absorb that much....
Originally posted by Juntai
probably both from early 90s as well.
struggles to throw a missle?
well i have more than two superman issues and i have seen him struggle to lift or move a lot of things. So your point of this post waaaaaaaaaaaaaaas?
Silver surfer should win this everytime if he plays his cards right,
he is by far more powerful then superman, they might share the same strength, silver surfer is by far more durable than superman, faster then superman.
All of superman powers are flawed and meaningless to surfer except his strength. The only weopon that superman has that he can use against surfer is strength whereas surfer has a truck load that he can use against superman. Hell surfer can increase his strength up to levels that he could just one shot superman, dont say that he cant because a brick like titus has done it twice.
Originally posted by Erik-LensherrSo you choose to just talk about his high showings and ignore the beatdowns he has taken over the years.
Silver Surfer hasn't consistently shown combat speed even close to Superman's level. Saying he is fast enough to analyze and exploit Superman's weakness before Superman knocks him out is just an idiotic assumption.Even if he did somehow manage to make Kryptonite, there's absolutley no guarantee it would work seeing as how apparently Kryptonite from different Universes doesn't have an effect. And even if he did, it's not like it means instant win. During Infinite Crisis, he transported Superboy Prime through Kryptonite, flew through a Red Sun and still got up and won.
Not to mention that a few months ago he fought a group hunting and killing down kryptonians with specific made weapons. He was attacked with Red solar explosive (which I might add, like he stated, doesn't hold out for long in the open sunlight) , then with with artificial made Kryptonite bullets, then with a vibro cannon which made his molecules shudder and still kept going.
Also,when he took red sun radiation blasts from a Red Sun Eater while simultaneously carying an entropy bomb inside it. After all this, he still took an explosion about fifty times the size of a supernova and wasn't even knocked out.
Drag the solar energy out of him ? You mean like Darkstar, who practically became the unified field, tried to do ? She was even affecting temportal particles with her power. Not to mention that in this instance, Superman voluntarely jumped in front of the attack in order to help Supergirl. This didn't stop Supergirl, who took control of Superman's body, to speed blitz and knock down Darkstar.
I don't think there's even a need to mention victories Superman has over various adversaries more powerfull than SS. Superman could also take SS to the sun similar to how he did to Darkseid or Wonder Woman and kick the crap out of him.
So, like I said, Superman takes this.
He has failed to beat Orion,Black Adam,Hal Jordan.
He got beat up by Kalibak and the Mantis.
He was utterly crushed with ease by Cyborg in the sinestro corps story.
He loses here to the Surfer, as he is more versatile and doesnt have any crippling weaknesses. The power cosmic can literally do anything and that spells doom for the man of steel.
Originally posted by quanchi112
So you choose to just talk about his high showings and ignore the beatdowns he has taken over the years.He has failed to beat Orion,Black Adam,Hal Jordan.
He got beat up by Kalibak and the Mantis.
He was utterly crushed with ease by Cyborg in the sinestro corps story.
He loses here to the Surfer, as he is more versatile and doesnt have any crippling weaknesses. The power cosmic can literally do anything and that spells doom for the man of steel.
All of those people that you named are either on or above his level. None of those are low feats. Based upon what you named, there are "no" low showings.
Orion has been established to be on Supermans level time after time again. His reflexes are ridiculous, and he has the astro force.
Black adam pretty much took on the entire world... hes earned his spot at supermans level. And name a time when superman was owned by black adam. Just curious.
And Hal... Freaking Hal jordan? Are you serious? You REALLY think that its a low feat to not be able to defeat hal jordan? Wow...
And just read mungi's post in the owned thread about mantis. Hes no pushover. He took on Hal, ww, and someone else simultameously I believe.
And anything less than superman being owned by Henshaw would cis and pis. Henshaw is everything that superman is and more.
So based upon that, I think that Juntai said it better, and Erik-lenshir elaborated upon it best. My point is that superman is famously underrated whenever the sufer enters the picture. I think that either character can take a few wins. But thus far, current superman has shown himself capable of matching and beating the surfer imo.
Superman is capable of beating him, but SS has shown far greater versatility, good enough reaction speed to at least dodge a few blows, and has t3H Cosmic Awareness to find his weaknesses, he can be blasting him with T3h Red Sun energy the whole fight, progessively making Superman weaker, slower, and less durable.
Originally posted by Sirius77Orion and Hal Jordan would both lose to the Surfer.
All of those people that you named are either on or above his level. None of those are low feats. Based upon what you named, there are "no" low showings.Orion has been established to be on Supermans level time after time again. His reflexes are ridiculous, and he has the astro force.
Black adam pretty much took on the entire world... hes earned his spot at supermans level. And name a time when superman was owned by black adam. Just curious.
And Hal... Freaking Hal jordan? Are you serious? You REALLY think that its a low feat to not be able to defeat hal jordan? Wow...
And just read mungi's post in the owned thread about mantis. Hes no pushover. He took on Hal, ww, and someone else simultameously I believe.
And anything less than superman being owned by Henshaw would cis and pis. Henshaw is everything that superman is and more.
So based upon that, I think that Juntai said it better, and Erik-lenshir elaborated upon it best. My point is that superman is famously underrated whenever the sufer enters the picture. I think that either character can take a few wins. But thus far, current superman has shown himself capable of matching and beating the surfer imo.
Again you are ignoring Supermans weaknesses and the power cosmic. Anything Supes can do the Surfer can match and weaken the shit out of him in the process. 🙂
The reason most people say the Surfer wins here is because in this matchup the Surfer wins.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Orion and Hal Jordan would both lose to the Surfer.
Hal would not loose to surfer. And Orion prolly would loose to surfer eventually if he didnt use the astroforce.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Again you are ignoring Supermans weaknesses and the power cosmic. Anything Supes can do the Surfer can match and weaken the shit out of him in the process. 🙂
Again. How many times has he done this, and how comparable were his opponents?
Originally posted by quanchi112
The reason most people say the Surfer wins here is because in this matchup the Surfer wins.
That was a pointless statement. 😐 He could win, he could loose. Its fifty fifty on both sides.
Originally posted by Sirius77
How many times has he done that to an opponent on his level?
He threatened to do it to Gladiator and did it to the Hulk. He may have done it other times to others but I dont feel like looking.
Whenever someone uses k-nite or red sun on supes it does weaken him and sometimes almost kills him, BUT these instances are mostly in superman comics were he prevails. Why? Because its a superman comic book. It wouldn't make sense for superman to die every time someone abuses him with his weaknesses. Of coarse he is gonna prevail by PIS or plot device when he is getting abused by one his weaknesses in HIS COMIC.
Unless this fight takes place in a superman comic or DC, I dont see anyone saving his ass or CIS on surfers part. I cant see Surfer suddenly stops blasting and decides to talk to kal-l so supes can recover.
Also saying said character has beaten tougher foes in fights that the characters are not WAY out of the others league is as dumb as using A B C logic.
Surfer beats up superman type characters all the time, even other heralds.
Originally posted by Sirius77
When did I use abc logic? I have yet to bring up a low showing for surfer.
I was just stating that "has beaten tougher foes" is being thrown around alot lately in alot of VS. fights.
Most of the time that is as lame as using ABC logic. Which is frowned upon by most.
"has beaten tougher foes" can be said about both these guys, and shouldn't be considered as much as ABC logic.
I did not mean that you used ABC logic. Sorry I wasn't clear on that. 🙂
And also, hulk is hardly lightspeed, and he talked about doing that to gladiator, but never actually did it.
He has shown the ability to scan characters and has shown is able to manipulate vast types of energy types. And in the Gladiator incident he stated to be able to replicate the wavelength of radiation that he is weak to. So Surfer has the ability to exploit Supermans weaknesses.
Originally posted by Soljer
Wow. That makes you some kind of expert, huh?
Exactly. 👆 Superman has been going for decades I have two issues and that makes me an expert, perfectly logical.
The point was that other posters on this forum who have read far more Superman comics than me have stated not all of Supermans feats were uber and gave examples, I was just adding my 2cents. 😐
Apart from that I have read the Death of Superman and The Return of Superman and a couple of Batman issues were Superman turns up. No it doesnt make me an expert but it does not leave me completely groping around in the dark either.
Originally posted by Juntai
probably both from early 90s as well.
struggles to throw a missle?
1999 Man of Steel Issues 43 and 44. In all fairness the missle was twice his size and as Superman stated it had gravity on its side as well. Superman did struggle but breifly. Im not saying he loses im just saying not all his feats are uber.
He was fighting the Parasite it refernced the previous issue and there was no mention of him getting drained. It seems he did not get drained in the current issue either.
Originally posted by Inhuman
He threatened to do it to Gladiator and did it to the Hulk. He may have done it other times to others but I dont feel like looking.
Whenever someone uses k-nite or red sun on supes it does weaken him and sometimes almost kills him, BUT these instances are mostly in superman comics were he prevails. Why? Because its a superman comic book. It wouldn't make sense for superman to die every time someone abuses him with his weaknesses. Of coarse he is gonna prevail by PIS or plot device when he is getting abused by one his weaknesses in HIS COMIC.
Unless this fight takes place in a superman comic or DC, I dont see anyone saving his ass or CIS on surfers part. I cant see Surfer suddenly stops blasting and decides to talk to kal-l so supes can recover.
Also saying said character has beaten tougher foes in fights that the characters are not WAY out of the others league is as dumb as using A B C logic.
Surfer beats up superman type characters all the time, even other heralds.
Im sorry but if he keeps overcoming his weaknesses then you cant keep calling it PIS. 😬
Originally posted by MindshipPIS was strictly defined by this forum some time ago. PIS is based off the statistical number of occurences of the spectacular feat (or of similar ones). SS has no other occurences of this nanosecond type of feat but many many others that contradict it. Superman on the other hand has some events that contradict (as do all characters) his feats but he has many many that back them up.PIS is always a tough call, and it's a sword that cuts both ways.
"By definition"? Please explain. That a Forum rule?
"Invalid?" "Hyperbole"? Again, PIS can work against Superman just as well as against the Surfer, probably moreso, given the "Flagship Status" of Big Blue.
Regardless, nanosec reaction times are entirely within the Surfer's powerset.
No they aren't. For if they were then he would have shown it at least several times in his many year career history. Instead, he's shown thousands of times that it is not in his powerset.
But what the heck: for argument's sake, let's say Superman launches a speedblitz before the Surfer can attack. Since Forum rules allow for mutual knowledge of strengths and weaknesses, the Surfer is prepared, either by already being phased, having a cosmic shield in place; hell, it is within the Surfer's powerset that he could enter the fray already surrounded by warped space (sending Superman flying in circles long enough for him to launch an attack); already radiating red sunlight, yada yada yada...Forum rules forbid anyone without prep to have shields up or be phased ahead of the bell. Only prep allows this. Planning before the bell is not the same as being phased before the bell. So since Surfer doesn't have sufficient reflexes and it probably takes him more than a second to phase then Superman easily pops his a$$ at the sound of the bell for thinking about this nonsense before the bell.
Now that I think of it, power cosmic can be almost as annoying as magic as a plot device. Thank God "power cosmic" sounds so much cooler... 😎
True that. But effective speed is king of all things. Remember that.