Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by Kutulu
I have gone the extra mile to prove my point and backed it up with specific scans detailing everything I wrote. You on the other hand have yet to detail anything defending your own point, instead chose to hide behind statements of psuedo-science. I am not going to expend more effort into debating you unless you put a little more effort into backing up your side of the debate first.

* The arena is a neutral area where characters can affect each other.
* Superman can be crippled by many different forms of radiation and energy manipulation.
* the Surfer can see anything in the entire electromagnetic spectrum, and create / drain / manipulate / transform close any electromagnetic energy into any other electromagnetic energy, and to top it off has a past history of doing so.
* If what you state was true, than Surfer wouldn't have been able to hold in the energies of the central battery of Oa, or transform the city of Metropolis during the two crossovers between DC and Marvel. AFAIK the Metropolis incident was canon. Mxy himself was surprised by the level of ability that Surfer possessed. So you have an official canon comic book from the Surfer / Superman crossover that Surfer can in fact affect matter and energy from DC's universe.

In regards to psuedo-science, what exactly do you think comic books use? It was stated on-panel during Infinite Crisis and countdown to Final Crisis that the various universes within DC exist on top of the same space, just on different vibrational frequencies.

Once again, I never claimed Surfer couldn't affect Superman, I said this to you just a moment ago. I was merely entertaining ideas in YOUR post, hence why I never mentioned it, until responding to you.

You're acting like I had a position in the matter rather than just jesting at your BS, seeing how far you would take it, but I can see you're not going to continue now anyways, being why you've ducked trying to prove your science to be relivent the several times I called you on it already.

You know you talked out of your ass as much as I do.

I understand the concept of the nuetral universe.
I also understand Surfer has the tools to beat Superman.
I also understand Superman can beat Surfer.

Haven't you payed attention?

Originally posted by Juntai
To reitterate, I think my favorite part of the story was the inner dialog, but on a much boader respect, Surfer's reactions to the universe around him. I also enjoyed that about the previous mini, where he was dying? His feelings about the universe around him are definately one of the highlights of his character. As Surfer - ever patrolling the spaceways - is cursed to forever look at conventional life from the outside in.

Originally posted by Juntai
You just dodged the entire thing again, lol.

Once again, I never claimed Surfer couldn't affect Superman, I said this to you just a moment ago. I was merely entertaining ideas in YOUR post, hence why I never mentioned it, until responding to you.

You're acting like I had a position in the matter rather than just jesting at your BS, seeing how far you would take it, but I can see you're not going to continue now anyways, being why you've ducked trying to prove your science to be relivent the several times I called you on it already.

You know you talked out of your ass as much as I do.

Hardly. I showed scans detailing on-panel events which backed me up, and you duck behind the cover of psuedo science saying that I never answered your questions. I have already countered every point you made so far.

Go ahead and continue pretending to be elitist, since that seems to be your thing lately. 🙄

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah I liked In Thy Name, but I was a much bigger fan of Requiem. In Thy Name's art kinda bugged me at times too(Surfer occasionally looked as though he was made out of Silver Play-Doh I thought) but I thought the story was pretty good. I probably would have liked In Thy Name more if I hadn't been on a Requiem high when I started it.

Juntai will never give anyone a majority over superman, thats why he's saying 50/50. Surfer gets a good majority 8/10. The ONLY weapon that superman has to use against surfer is strength but recently, since surfer has been punched a guy on galactus level through an entire moon, destroying the moon afterwards and still got up after that, I dont think that superman even have the strength to take out surfer.

Surfer got punched so hard that it destroyed the moon, naah superman aint defeating no surfer in enough time with brute strength to pull a win.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Hardly. I showed scans detailing on-panel events which backed me up, and you duck behind the cover of psuedo science saying that I never answered your questions. I have already countered every point you made so far.

Go ahead and continue pretending to be elitist, since that seems to be your thing lately. 🙄

In fact, earlier in the thread I've already discussed Superman being hit with red sun and kryptonite radiation. Obviously I didn't suddently believe he's immune to the attacks.

I was entertaining the bullshit in your post. That's why my first response was asking if you could prove any of it existing in Superman's universe. I don't think we've seen an instance of it happening yet, so you can't claim it as fact.

But you duck it, again.

👆

hey juntai, what are you trying to accomplish? you are only fueling kutulu's ownage

Originally posted by psycho gundam
hey juntai, what are you trying to accomplish? you are only fueling kutulu's ownage

He hasn't proven his transdimensional-radiation-theory in relation to Superman's weaknesses.
He's attempted to force an opinion on me, that was not my own, when all I did was ask him to prove things in his post. He was actually debating with someone else, then continued to me as if it were mine.
If you're talking about kryptonite and red sun affecting Superman?
I never denied it. I've already taken it into account when formulating my thoughts of the battle. I've even discussed in the thread previously.

sure but you are doing it in a wishy-washy way, thus prolonging this huge thread. no offence

Originally posted by psycho gundam
sure but you are doing it in a wishy-washy way, thus prolonging this huge thread. no offence

Also, like a said a bit ago.

I've stated my stance from the very beginning. If people debate against me, I'm inclined to respond as long as they don't act too much like idiots.
If people are trying to convince me one way or the other, clearly it's them who is on the far side from my point of view.

touche. surfer still 8/10

Originally posted by psycho gundam
touche. surfer still 8/10

Originally posted by Kutulu
So you have an official canon comic book from the Surfer / Superman crossover that Surfer can in fact affect matter and energy from DC's universe.

Question at Large: Any theories why they didn't fight? I'm tempted to say, because both companies realized this is a fight Superman wouldn't win (as opposed to his battling the Hulk or Thor, where the companies apparently agreed for a Supes victory). But for the moment I will chuck that up to Surfer bias.

I'd like to hear from Superman fans why they didn't fight. I'm thinking, maybe, because the two of them are both such freakin' peaceniks, but...I dunno. "Mistaken Intent" (the standard way to get heroes to fight) always worked before.

Originally posted by Mindship

I'm thinking, maybe, because the two of them are both such freakin' peaceniks, but...I dunno.

Originally posted by Mindship
Personally, I found that crossover somewhat disappointing because they didn't fight. My two favorite characters...and all they did was "impress" each other.

Question at Large: Any theories why they didn't fight? I'm tempted to say, because both companies realized this is a fight Superman wouldn't win (as opposed to his battling the Hulk or Thor, where the companies apparently agreed for a Supes victory). But for the moment I will chuck that up to Surfer bias.

I'd like to hear from Superman fans why they didn't fight. I'm thinking, maybe, because the two of them are both such freakin' peaceniks, but...I dunno. "Mistaken Intent" (the standard way to get heroes to fight) always worked before.

Its like if you have an Olympic Decathlete Champion (that is allergic to bees) vs. a small swarm of bees.
Without any PIS or plot devices like a hospital near by The decathlete loses 10/10.
He could swat away and kill some of the bees but he will eventually get stung.
10/10 he will end up on the floor weakened, struggling to breath having a seizure and eventually dying.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The fact that others do it too doesn't make it right. Those Supes fans are wrong for claiming Supes wins 10/10 because of a speedblitz so why emulate them? I can see wanting to point out the double standard as such in both threads(and I'd agree with you for doing so and have done so myself), but that's no reason to promote the double standard yourself. Think about it, by accepting that Surfer wins 10/10 due to weakness manipulation you're also validating the claims of Supes's fans who say he beats Hulk 10/10 because of the speedblitz...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
hey juntai, what are you trying to accomplish? you are only fueling kutulu's ownage

Originally posted by Juntai

I was entertaining the bullshit in your post. That's why my first response was asking if you could prove any of it existing in Superman's universe. I don't think we've seen an instance of it happening yet, so you can't claim it as fact.

Bro he already did he ****ing smacked it. Look I know I get on your case sometimes and to be quite frank I dont think you're stupid and your stance is reasonable but sometimes you can be a dick.

😐

Originally posted by Kutulu
There are other characters within DC continuity who have taken advantage of Superman's weaknesses to various wavelengths of energy; the big one I can think of off of the top of my head is when Dr. Polaris had Superman lying on the ground crippled by manipulating his energy. This shows conclusively that it's within DC continuity for this effect to occur to Superman.

Surfer is the consumate master energy manipulator; he could replicate such a feat with ease:
http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=drpolarisvssuperman7lw1.jpg

Hell I dont even think this post is about K-nite its just basic manipulation of the EM Spectrum.

Originally posted by Mindship
He uses it infrequently, which is consistent with PIS as you explained it: a "statistical number of occurences of the spectacular feat." This should hold unless, as I stated, the feat is consistent with the powerset/power level (which it is with the Surfer--it has to be for him to function). This is why the Godblast is considered legit.

Since hyperspace is fictional (at best, hypothetical), there is a lot of supposition here.

-- Humans in starships have sensors and computers to help them (heck, the Enterprise, eg, has FTL processors in its computers).
-- Jet pilots do not like flying close to ground level for this reason (among others), because they can't react fast enough. At high altitudes, you don't have to worry about trees and mountains, and the jet's sensors and computers help the pilot react to high-speed threats (which are also manageable because of the combat distances involved).

The thing with Jet pilots is that things are far enough away for them to
react to. For example, if I am traveling at the speed of light from Earth towards the Sun then I can easily avoid hitting the Sun because of the vast distance it is away from me. I actually have 8 mins to move out of the way of the Sun. This is a long time and I'm traveling pretty fast (the speed of light).

Yes SS has superhuman reactions. But not on the level of evading a Superman blitz. Why? Because he has never shown it in battle (only the contrary).

-- It can be logically inferred that the Torch does have reaction times fast enough to enable him to fly as fast as he does. Plus, if he can "stop on a dime," you're implying some kind of inertial control. But we don't wanna go here. This is just how comics are.

Whether SS can scan Superman's body to make Kryptonite or use red solar radiation is moot. This is because when the bell sounds Superman will be hammering him hard. So stop with this dumb kryptonite and red sun radiation crap that won't happen. And SS is not tailored to beat Superman. He lacks the all important battle and reaction speed.

Superman wins due to the instant speed blitz.