Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by h1a8
First of all, what is hyperspace? How does someone is supposed to look when they are traveling in hyperspace? How do you know that SS isn't entering hyperspace when he is traveling FTL? Marvel says he does on panel (like The Nova Corps Files #1 (Oct. 2006)) and they also say in his bios. Lastly warp speed could be easily hyperspace travel (since we don't know what hyperspace travel is). For example, everytime Star Trek warps they disapear (from the outside point of view) in a portal or something. But when we are viewing them traveling from their point of view they just seem to be just traveling plain fast.

So I believe Marvel over speculation. And its not speculation that SS will get blitzed in the first ...th of a second by Superman.

Simply put its a subspace (dimension) coexisting in normal space..

Beats me! nobody has gone that fast before..

Because Surfer need not enter hyperspace to go FTL.

You cant rely on bio's, they are not very accurate and at times just depictions of a character from a viewpoint of one writer, not the whole..

Warp speed is not hyperspace travel. I could write a few pages that differentiate both but ahmm that would be a bore.. Main difference is that: one travels in normal space therefore can interacting with it while the other is the opposite..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5396944
Ahmm no.. See my friend, your one to speculate.. Oh and Supes doesnt go FTL instantaneously.

Originally posted by h1a8
the ability to see an attack coming has nothing to do with the speed in which to get out of the way (like ducking). SS hasn't even proven to move his body (like limbs and torso) very fast to avoid attacks after they were launched.

Your right!! But Surfer clearly shows in the scan above and below that he does have the speed and reflex to avoid FTL attacks.. Scans also shows he can fight at that speed; blitzing and all..

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-12.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-13.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-14.jpg

Originally posted by h1a8
So one must prove two things and not one.
1. SS has the reactions to see Superman coming
2. SS has the speed within that first ...th of a second to get out of the way and continue to get out of the way. (We all know that Superman is faster than SS in the first fraction of a second but after that second SS is faster).

Lets see:

1. Yes.
2. More speculation on your part and another vote for Surfer.

Question:

1. Has Superman ever moved FTL instantaneously? Heck has he ever blitz someone at FTL speed?

h1a8, it looks like Roldz answered your 2 questions for you. Also, can you or somebody provide a scan showing superman blitzing at FTL speeds or instantly going FTL speeds?

who do you think can fly faster ? surfer or supes ?

Originally posted by Roldz
Simply put its a subspace (dimension) coexisting in normal space..

Beats me! nobody has gone that fast before..

Because Surfer need not enter hyperspace to go FTL.

You cant rely on bio's, they are not very accurate and at times just depictions of a character from a viewpoint of one writer, not the whole..

Warp speed is not hyperspace travel. I could write a few pages that differentiate both but ahmm that would be a bore.. Main difference is that: one travels in normal space therefore can interacting with it while the other is the opposite..

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5396944
Ahmm no.. See my friend, your one to speculate.. Oh and Supes doesnt go FTL instantaneously.

Maybe Supes can go FTL the first instant if he's determined enough.
Here's something convincing. Fast enough to block HV but not fast enough for Supes himself (Supes is faster than his HV the first instant)
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=351yc.jpg

Your right!! But Surfer clearly shows in the scan below that he does have the speed and reflex to avoid FTL attacks..
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-12.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-13.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-14.jpg

Question:

1. Has Superman ever moved FTL instantaneously? Heck has he ever blitz someone at FTL speed?

http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=351yc.jpg
And there's many more in his respect thread. Like the time when a gun was fired at someone a few feet away and when Superman heard
it he raced miles in time to easily stop the bullet from striking the victim.
Again he doesn't need to against SS. He just needs to go fast enough just to get the first strike on SS.

A professional baseball player has the reflexes to hit a 100mph baseball yet in a fight he doesn't necessarily have the reflexes nor skill to stop a mediocre punch from hitting him in the face. A professional table tennis player who's also an Olympic runner has great reflexes and speed but in a fight he doesn't have any reflexes nor speed to avoid the initial attack from landing. These are examples that traveling speed or non battle reflexes doesn't equate to battle speed or battle reflexes. SS hasn't proven to have good battle reflexes nor good battle speed. Yet people are giving it to him for no good reason.

Originally posted by h1a8
A professional baseball player has the reflexes to hit a 100mph baseball yet in a fight he doesn't necessarily have the reflexes nor skill to stop a mediocre punch from hitting him in the face. A professional table tennis player who's also an Olympic runner has great reflexes and speed but in a fight he doesn't have any reflexes nor speed to avoid the initial attack from landing. These are examples that traveling speed or non battle reflexes doesn't equate to battle speed or battle reflexes. SS hasn't proven to have good battle reflexes nor good battle speed. Yet people are giving it to him for no good reason.

Still don't see Superman speed being the deciding factor in this match up. So let me ask this if speed don't work what else does Superman have? The way I see it is that Superman has only one way to beat Surfer and that is physically and he has to do it fast if that don't work he is F**ked. Could he do it yes will he do it for the majority out of 10 no.

Originally posted by h1a8
A professional baseball player has the reflexes to hit a 100mph baseball yet in a fight he doesn't necessarily have the reflexes nor skill to stop a mediocre punch from hitting him in the face. A professional table tennis player who's also an Olympic runner has great reflexes and speed but in a fight he doesn't have any reflexes nor speed to avoid the initial attack from landing. These are examples that traveling speed or non battle reflexes doesn't equate to battle speed or battle reflexes. SS hasn't proven to have good battle reflexes nor good battle speed. Yet people are giving it to him for no good reason.

At least you now acknowledge that due to ss being able to travel fast out of battle he must have equivalent reaction times all be it out of battle. Now even though a proffesional athlete may have good reflexes out of battle and not in battle, it would take very little training for that athlete to be able to transfer his skills into fights, hence the reason many athletes
whose careers have ended prematurely but not due to physical disabilties have taken up mixed martial arts and other combat sports. In addition in most cases an athlete with no form of physical training whatsoever will be able to defeat or at least hold his own against a normal non athlete as his so called out of battle reflexes and speed will come into play. Now the reason silver surfer does not have that many examples of speed blitzing during fights is that he has way too many powers as it is to defeat his opponents and if the writers showed him speed blitzing it would simply be overkill. Now for the surfer to say he can speed attack an opponent at the speed of light should be proof enough as we all know that the surfer holds back just
as much if not more than superman and him not speedblitzing is simply another way of toning down his powers

Originally posted by spidey-dude
who do you think can fly faster ? surfer or supes ?

Undoubtedly surfer

Originally posted by h1a8
A professional baseball player has the reflexes to hit a 100mph baseball yet in a fight he doesn't necessarily have the reflexes nor skill to stop a mediocre punch from hitting him in the face. A professional table tennis player who's also an Olympic runner has great reflexes and speed but in a fight he doesn't have any reflexes nor speed to avoid the initial attack from landing.

These are examples that traveling speed or non battle reflexes doesn't equate to battle speed or battle reflexes. SS hasn't proven to have good battle reflexes nor good battle speed. Yet people are giving it to him for no good reason.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6231/silversurfer198902312rp5.jpg

Calculated while the oppponent is at mid teleport and then took action, can you say instantaneous reaction (Hows that for reflexes)...

Anyhow is all...

Originally posted by h1a8
SS has never proven himself to react to super fast speeds in battle where Superman has. Also flight and navigation speed doesn't equate to battle speed and reflexes. Otherwise you would have seen SS at least once react to a very fast attack after it was initiated.

And the ability to see an attack coming has nothing to do with the speed in which to get out of the way (like ducking). SS hasn't even proven to move his body (like limbs and torso) very fast to avoid attacks after they were launched.

So one must prove two things and not one.
1. SS has the reactions to see Superman coming
2. SS has the speed within that first ...th of a second to get out of the way and continue to get out of the way. (We all know that Superman is faster than SS in the first fraction of a second but after that second SS is faster).

Now ss does have the reactions to see supermans blitz cming he sees objects coming all the time when moving at lightspeeds and there is no on panel evidence to prove that ss takes some seconds to hit full speed that is simply speculation. If ss can see the attack coming he can certainly instantly move out of the way and well once superman has initially missed the fight is all over for him

Originally posted by Roldz
Your analogy does not make sense, its missing a few variables to make it understandable.. Im not even gonna go there.

Buddy! Try to look at the few scan thats been posted above regarding Surfers reflex and speed in battle.. Like the scan below for example..

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6231/silversurfer198902312rp5.jpg

Calculated while the oppponent is at mid teleport and then took action, can you say instantaneous reaction (Hows that for reflexes)...

Anyhow is all...

Wonderful scan, that not only shows that ss has instant reactions but also shows that ss thinks extremly fast

Originally posted by h1a8
False. Hyperspace has several definitions. But all agree that it is space beneath normal space. And warping space doesn't help SS any here. For folding space in front of you doesn't show speed nor reflexes to stop Superman the first instant.
The scan is hyperbole (exaggeration language) at best and PIS in the least. Why? Because it has always taken SS more than a second to travel in space. Oh and may not can go FTL the first instant but he can go fast enough to knock the living hell out of surfer that instant.

By the way the warp speed scan was just a respond regarding your false claim of Surfer only able to go FTL through Hyperspace. Which i prove you wrong..

His done this so many times and is consistent to his showings and your stretching..

Maybe Supes can go FTL the first instant if he's determined enough.
Here's something convincing. Fast enough to block HV but not fast enough for Supes himself (Supes is faster than his HV the first instant)
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=351yc.jpg.

And do we know HV is at FTL speed? dont think so..

False. It doesn't show it. That scan has been discussed here countless times. It is clearly hyperbole (figurative talk by SS). In no way did SS mean a nanosecond (especially when he said complete English sentences in his head the whole time).

Surfer didnt speak a full sentence but rather thought of it and we know his mind process at FTL speed.
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer199612206jx3.jpg

SS saying that he can go faster than light doesn't mean he is doing so. So that scan doesn't show that SS can travel FTL without hyperspace nor does it show that he can achieve such speeds in the first instant.

He said he moves faster than light itself, what more do you need ask.. Its not in his char. to lie...

Your still with this hyperspace, this has been proven already that its not his only way to achieve FTL..

And there's many more in his respect thread. Like the time when a gun was fired at someone a few feet away and when Superman heard

Originally posted by ultimatethor
At least you now acknowledge that due to ss being able to travel fast out of battle he must have equivalent reaction times all be it out of battle. Now even though a proffesional athlete may have good reflexes out of battle and not in battle, it would take very little training for that athlete to be able to transfer his skills into fights, hence the reason many athletes
whose careers have ended prematurely but not due to physical disabilties have taken up mixed martial arts and other combat sports. In addition in most cases an athlete with no form of physical training whatsoever will be able to defeat or at least hold his own against a normal non athlete as his so called out of battle reflexes and speed will come into play. Now the reason silver surfer does not have that many examples of speed blitzing during fights is that he has way too many powers as it is to defeat his opponents and if the writers showed him speed blitzing it would simply be overkill. Now for the surfer to say he can speed attack an opponent at the speed of light should be proof enough as we all know that the surfer holds back just
as much if not more than superman and him not speedblitzing is simply another way of toning down his powers

Originally posted by ultimatethor
At least you now acknowledge that due to ss being able to travel fast out of battle he must have equivalent reaction times all be it out of battle. Now even though a proffesional athlete may have good reflexes out of battle and not in battle, it would take very little training for that athlete to be able to transfer his skills into fights, hence the reason many athletes
whose careers have ended prematurely but not due to physical disabilties have taken up mixed martial arts and other combat sports. In addition in most cases an athlete with no form of physical training whatsoever will be able to defeat or at least hold his own against a normal non athlete as his so called out of battle reflexes and speed will come into play. Now the reason silver surfer does not have that many examples of speed blitzing during fights is that he has way too many powers as it is to defeat his opponents and if the writers showed him speed blitzing it would simply be overkill. Now for the surfer to say he can speed attack an opponent at the speed of light should be proof enough as we all know that the surfer holds back just
as much if not more than superman and him not speedblitzing is simply another way of toning down his powers

Of course I acknowledge SS with superhuman reflexes but nowhere equal to his traveling speed. Otherwise, you would have seen several showings of his this in his career. I basically proved that SS doesn't necessarily have Superman uber reflexes and battle speed just because he has good reflexes in another area.

Note: I didn't necessarily agree that SS has good reflexes in other areas. I was just saying that if he does then it doesn't equate to battle.

Originally posted by Roldz
Your analogy does not make sense, its missing a few variables to make it understandable.. Im not even gonna go there.

Buddy! Try to look at the few scans thats been posted above regarding Surfers reflex and speed in battle.. Like the scan below for example..

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6231/silversurfer198902312rp5.jpg

Calculated while the oppponent is at mid teleport and then took action, can you say instantaneous reaction (Hows that for reflexes)...

Anyhow is all...

My analogy makes perfect sense. A bias mind cannot see the truth.
Your scan is invalid. SS blasts him before he teleports away. SS detects motion and calculates the trajectory of the foe. One doesn't need any amount of reflexes to do this. The ability to calculate makes this possible. And note it takes SS several seconds to think in order to calculate his trajectory (which shows slow thinking times). This is time he won't have vs. Superman.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Now ss does have the reactions to see supermans blitz cming he sees objects coming all the time when moving at lightspeeds and there is no on panel evidence to prove that ss takes some seconds to hit full speed that is simply speculation. If ss can see the attack coming he can certainly instantly move out of the way and well once superman has initially missed the fight is all over for him

There is a lot of panel evidence that proves that it takes SS more than a second to reach light speeds. Why do you debate in this thread when you haven't read much SS? Don't debate a specific issue for a character unless you know them well enough by reading alot of their comics.

And seeing an attack coming doesn't give you the power to move out of the way. SS has never proven to move his limbs (like ducking and weaving) fast enough to dodge Superman level speeds. Neither has he proven to travel light speeds within a second.

Originally posted by Roldz
Me thinks you know not what you talk (you said false yet agrees w/ me).. JK

By the way the warp speed scan was just a respond regarding your false claim of Surfer only able to go FTL through Hyperspace. Which i prove you wrong..

And do we know HV is at FTL speed? dont think so..

Again its consistent showing his done it many times on panel..

Surfer didnt speak a full sentence but rather thought of it and we know his mind process at FTL speed.
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer199612206jx3.jpg

He said he moves faster than light itself, what more do you need ask.. Its not in his char. to lie...

Your still with this hyperspace, this has been proven already that its not his only way to achieve FTL..

But it wasnt in a battle so it doesnt count..lol

Originally posted by h1a8
False. It doesn't show it. That scan has been discussed here countless times. It is clearly hyperbole (figurative talk by SS). In no way did SS mean a nanosecond (especially when he said [B]complete English sentences in his head the whole time).
[/B]

Flys through building(who’s walls are made of solid vibranium) and saves Nova at Super Speed...
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

Originally posted by darthgoober
Of course he was thinking in complete senses that's what true super speed is, the ability to do EVERYTHING(including think) faster. If you need further proof then take look at these scans and keep in mind that even though Surfer's thinking in complete sentences the entire thing takes less than a second...

Flys through building(who’s walls are made of solid vibranium) and saves Nova at Super Speed...
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

😖hifty:

Originally posted by h1a8
Maybe Supes can go FTL the first instant if he's determined enough.
Here's something convincing. Fast enough to block HV but not fast enough for Supes himself (Supes is faster than his HV the first instant)
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=351yc.jpg

Originally posted by h1a8
A professional baseball player has the reflexes to hit a 100mph baseball yet in a fight he doesn't necessarily have the reflexes nor skill to stop a mediocre punch from hitting him in the face. A professional table tennis player who's also an Olympic runner has great reflexes and speed but in a fight he doesn't have any reflexes nor speed to avoid the initial attack from landing. These are examples that traveling speed or non battle reflexes doesn't equate to battle speed or battle reflexes. SS hasn't proven to have good battle reflexes nor good battle speed. Yet people are giving it to him for no good reason.

Originally posted by h1a8
Fast enough to block HV but not fast enough for Supes himself (Supes is faster than his HV the first instant)
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=351yc.jpg

So: I'm boxing, and the guy blocks my jab. Because of his counter to my first move, my right cross scores (I believe Supes got in four right crosses). This doesn't mean my right cross was faster than my jab.

Good tactical move, though. I bet Batman taught him that. 😉