Originally posted by The Great Galen
Not doubting his navigation reflexes, but being a good pilot is very different from being a good h2h fighter.
it's not "navigation" (you want a dictionary definition of that term?) it's manoeuvring, reflexes and blitzes. plus also many many many multiples of FTL speed thought.
face it, you have no argument 😐.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Let's look at your reasoning. Surfer somehow is going to throw millions of cosmic blast at a high speed moving target. I've never seen him do anything close to that. Then he's supposed to figure out superman's weaknesses while at the same time doging infinity man level punches and counter attacking. He's going to go intangible and that is supposed to stop superman, who has vibrated to match intangible things before? And surfer is supposed to be faster than Superman who flew from the Earth to the end of the known universe in less than a second?
First of all the the only reason i mentioned the milions of cosmic blasts thing was because a poster mentioned superman throwing billions of punches in a fraction of a second. Superman has never evn done anyhing close to that either. So superman is suppossed to throw billions of punches at a high speed moving target ? laughable. The only reason i brought up SS using millions of cosmic blasts was to counter that statement. Howver it is safe to say that neither superman nor SS will be doing this in the fight.
The rest of ur post howvwer does not take into account SS many powers. All he needs to do is throw up a forcefield and superman is done for. SS forcefield can and will keep supes at bay long enough for him to counter attack. SS has unbelievable thinking and processing speed so scanning supes for his weakness wont take long at all. Heck his cosmic senses will probably instantly tell him. Not to mention that each character gets knowledge of their opponenet before hand so SS will know supes weakness before the fight even starts. Heck this is all under the assumption that supes gets in the first hit. Which wont be happening anyway as SS has superior speed. Id like to see the scan of supes flying to the end of the known universe in less than a second. As ive heard that he did not even fly there and im also wondering how u got ur time frame. SS has supes beat in speed feats any day of the week.
Id also like to see supes physically affecting intangible beings. I know he can vibrate his molecules to go intangible but has he ever hurt an intangible being with a punch?
All in all SS has supes beat in evry aspect except strength but with his load of other powers that wont be a problem. A simple method of victory would be to instantly trap superman in a enrgy bubble and then absorb his solar enrgy and pump him full of red sun radiation or kryptonite. Other ways include BFR into the future and blasting him to death.
Originally posted by janus77
lol, that's just a very very weak attempt at missing the point.it's not "navigation" (you want a dictionary definition of that term?) it's manoeuvring, reflexes and blitzes. plus also many many many multiples of FTL speed thought.
face it, you have no argument 😐.
The only thing u have proven is that SS has good travelling speed....show me a h2h scan of SS fighting FTL. A good pilot isnt a good MMA fighter.
Originally posted by Avlon
I wouldn't necessarily say that Supes is as skilled as WW but he is a far better H2H fighter than most give him credit for nowadays. He's used pressure points, Batman like agility, Powers in combination (heat, ice, wind, and punches) at the same time.Hell, I've even seen him use a kick here and there. In the old days Superman hardly ever used anything outside of his fists.
Are there any true portrayals of SS using speed in battle? Particularly IF he gets knocked off his board and has to fight on foot or floating in space?
Not many, but they exist. Being off his board isn't really a common state for Surfer in combat so it doesn't come up all that often .
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Supes doesnt lack good h2h feats....ss is only good at navigation.
No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Thats all high speculation with almost no grounds to support, as ive said repeatly in this thread in terms of combat speed and h2h Supes>SS...hell its even WW>SS in that degree. Further more why didnt SS do this to thor or any other high heralds hes encountered. Could it be that SS stats r greatly overatted and he may in fact not be capable of doing anything u just suggested in that context. Lets go by on panel feats here and not"but he could or he should"mentally. H2H wise Supes takes it easily, but since I think SS will keep it at a distance he takes the majorty due to k-nite bolts.
Really this whole post shows nothing more than a deliberate attempt to ignore what was actually said in my post. I agreed completely that SS was inferior to superman in hand 2 hand. You obviously did not see it. The whole point was that SS did not need to be able to block or dodge supes attacks through physical means such as ducking and moving his arms. I supported this by giving an example of SS ultra high thinking, observation and processing speed. SS as isaid wont have a problem seeing the attack, his problem will in the process of physically defending against it. Howvwer i pointed out that SS would not need to defend himself physicslly as he could instantly alter his molecular structure or throw up a forcefield which would nullify supes attack.
Now to ur next misguided question of why SS, did not do "this against thor or any other high heralds he has fought against. My first response would be when has superman ever blitzed anyone at faster than light speeds?. The is answer is obvious. Nextly i dont really understand what u mean by "this". Evrything i mentioned regarding SS powers in my post SS has shown he is capable of doing. SS has gone intangible multiple times in his history. He has also BFRed durok into the future and has shown he is able to multiple extremely strong forcefields in multiple different positions faster than u can blink. So no SS stats are not being overrated as he has shown these capabilities numerous times. Against characters like thor, SS deliberately abstains fromusing most of his powers due to his being a pacifist and also because thor is his comrade. Howver there are other times that SS seemingly "forgets"the use of powers that he has shown to be capable of. Such cases r pure PIS and therefore have absolutely no business being referenced in regard to SS abilities.
U have bin holding on to supes superiority hand to hand wise and while no one is desputing that, it is really just a show of desperation as thereis ABSOLUTELY NO reason for SS to fight supes h2h when there are numerous other ways to fight supes in which he would not stand a chance in hell.
Originally posted by darthgoober
The same can actually be said of Surfer. I've never seen him use pressure points but he's got some moves when he decides to go that way(we just never see more than a few at a time before he starts blasting).
His best showing (that I remember) was Planet Hulk and even then he was under control of a device. Still, it was pretty decent.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Not many, but they exist. Being off his board isn't really a common state for Surfer in combat so it doesn't come up all that often .
I'm sure. Strong characters have knocked him off it before though. He seems much more helpless off the board. I don't have a problem agreeing that SS travels quickly on his board. My thing is off the board or on foot his speed pales greatly especially when compared to Superman, who even when not flying uses Superspeed on a regular basis without any aid.
Originally posted by AvlonWhat is it that you want me to answer exactly. There arent many instances of Surfer getting separated from his board and him being unable to get back on it. So would you like me to do your dirty work for you and look for those.
You also came in and and tried to answer a question with a question. So answer the question first with proof and examples.Seeing as Supes has defeated entire groups at high speeds, a significantly slower Surfer under assault, and his board are actually easier targets.
You still act as if he beats Surfer in a few moments which isnt going to happen. When has the Surfer been defeated so quickly and easily by anyone at Superman's level before? Superman still has those glaring weaknesses.
I think in the end thats what it comes down to. Surfer wins due to his weaknesses.
Originally posted by The Great GalenWhen did I make the claim that he is going to dodge Superman's punches?
How about giving some examples of SS fighting or moving at high speeds that didnt require his board. Or show me a combat speed feat and not a travelling feat with him racing down a straight line. It's amazing some folks here assume SS is going to dogde Supes punches in h2h even in spite of norin never demonstrated any high combat speed feats.
Originally posted by quanchi112
What is it that you want me to answer exactly. There arent many instances of Surfer getting separated from his board and him being unable to get back on it. So would you like me to do your dirty work for you and look for those.
Surfer's battle speed. It's nearly non-existent.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You still act as if he beats Surfer in a few moments which isnt going to happen. When has the Surfer been defeated so quickly and easily by anyone at Superman's level before? Superman still has those glaring weaknesses.
The same can be said for SS. When has he defeated someone like Superman easily? What glaring weakness? Kryptonite? If so, I want proof that Surfer knows how/or can create it.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I think in the end thats what it comes down to. Surfer wins due to his weaknesses.
You mean like being fairly slow in battle and a weakness to fists? Sounds worse and much easier to deal with than trying to recreate unknown radiations in battle to an opponent growing increasingly immune to it and that is faster on the draw.
