Originally posted by AvlonIf you cant show me someone beating Surfer by using Superman like speed its a moot point imo.
Surfer's battle speed. It's nearly non-existent.The same can be said for SS. When has he defeated someone like Superman easily? What glaring weakness? Kryptonite? If so, I want proof that Surfer knows how/or can create it.
You mean like being fairly slow in battle and a weakness to fists? Sounds worse and much easier to deal with than trying to recreate unknown radiations in battle to an opponent growing increasingly immune to it and that is faster on the draw.
Red solar energy is what I am referring to. Also how can Surfer create something that exists in the dcu and not marvel? If Superman is involved I would assume knite can be used as well as its a dc character who exists outside of marvel meeting a marvel character.
Superman has him beat if this were a hand to hand battle I never said otherwise. But you act as if the Surfer usually battles it out and ignores the versatility of his power cosmic and that Superman only fights to the best of his ability while the Surfer fights out of character imo.
Surfer has been punked by Thanos but he is more powerful than any top tier and exceeds the durabiltity of either character involved here imo.
Originally posted by Avlon
Interesting. Here is Supes in a similar predicament. Outfighting a Batman that is radiating kryptonite is no small feat.Even weakened and with Kryptonite poisoning he's moving fast enough to be a blur.
Why wont you post that superman vs lex fight when superman powers was gone. 😈
Black panther>>>>>>lex luthor.
Originally posted by Avlon
Are you referring to the last fight in the up, up, and away arc? If so Supes still won that one and Luthor is a pretty decent H2H combatant.
Hes pretty decent but he aint close to being a batman and he almost physically downed superman and that wasnt in the up, up and away arc, I think that was in the arc where clark lost his powers and wore the gl ring for a short period of time. So basically what was your point with the superman and batman fight.
I agree, luthor is a good fight but he isnt even on punisher level of combat experience, hell, thing fight better then lex.
Originally posted by carver9
Hes pretty decent but he aint close to being a batman and he almost physically downed superman and that wasnt in the up, up and away arc, I think that was in the arc where clark lost his powers and wore the gl ring for a short period of time. So basically what was your point with the superman and batman fight.I agree, luthor is a good fight but he isnt even on punisher level of combat experience, hell, thing fight better then lex.
clark refused to fight back, he said so himself.
Originally posted by carver9
Hes pretty decent but he aint close to being a batman and he almost physically downed superman and that wasnt in the up, up and away arc, I think that was in the arc where clark lost his powers and wore the gl ring for a short period of time. So basically what was your point with the superman and batman fight.I agree, luthor is a good fight but he isnt even on punisher level of combat experience, hell, thing fight better then lex.
The fight in which you are talking about, Clark wasn't even trying to fight and it's the Up, Up, and Away arc. At the end of the arc, Supes beat Lex while depowered as well.
That still doesn't discount his feats against Kryptonite Batman. Give the man his credit when it's due. He also did something similar to Shrapnel.
Originally posted by quanchi112
If you cant show me someone beating Surfer by using Superman like speed its a moot point imo.
Has anyone tried? We know Supes has fast fighting speed. Can you say the same for Surfer? If so, show the examples.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Red solar energy is what I am referring to. Also how can Surfer create something that exists in the dcu and not marvel? If Superman is involved I would assume knite can be used as well as its a dc character who exists outside of marvel meeting a marvel character.
It's up for you to prove that he can since you are making a case for it. Is any of it on panel? How would he know? Cosmic awareness is not that specific to characters and pretty useless in battle.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman has him beat if this were a hand to hand battle I never said otherwise. But you act as if the Surfer usually battles it out and ignores the versatility of his power cosmic and that Superman only fights to the best of his ability while the Surfer fights out of character imo.
I haven't suggested that Surfer ignore anything. The more likely scenario is Superman using superior speed and strength to KO Surfer. SS has options (as does Supes) but the standard scenario would probably involve SS shooting cosmic blasts and Superman flying in and punching as that is what they both do most of the time.
If people want to make elaborate scenarios for Surfer, they can be used for Clark as well.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Surfer has been punked by Thanos but he is more powerful than any top tier and exceeds the durabiltity of either character involved here imo.
And your opinion is fine. It's a double/triple edged sword though. Each are weak to different things so durability is relative. However, Thanos and Supes are both far stronger than Surfer with Thanos and Supes being peers in that category. Thanos also being much slower than Superman handles Surfer with ease. Amazingly, Thanos is also weak to a mysterious green energy and SS cosmic awareness sure never told him how to create that or that the weakness even existed...
Originally posted by darthgoober
I think it's safe to say that anyone who reacts to energy blasts after they're fired has some impressive combat speed whether they choose to land a hundred punches a second or not...http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1663/silversurferannual0124na7.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9906/p3silversurferv309016gd0.jpg
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1355/annihilationsilversurfexe9.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8742/silversurfer198902524tv8.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8210/silversurfer198902121my5.jpg
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8241/thor47014fn6.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/7526/silversurferv3146p12if3.jpg
Now I know there's at least one scan of Supes doing the same, but I can almost guarantee you won't find a scan of current Supes blitzing at faster than light speeds. The fact that Surfer isn't likely to punch Supes a thousand times a second doesn't mean he can't raise a force field to interrupt or blast away at Supes before he ever comes within arms reach. You have to remember that there's a .5 kilometer distance between the combatants and Supes has to close the gap before he can land a punch.
Proof of a lightspeed blitz from Supes and proof of the ability and inclination to launch "millions of billions of punches thrown in the first fraction of a sec"?
You don't really think of Supes as being as skilled as WW do you?
Responding to single energy blasts doesn't prove that SS is able to stop every attack thrown by Supes. This takes skill. For multiple punches will be thrown and not just one. Baseball is my specialty. I could have been a professional if I wasn't such a knucklehead. I can easily hit a straight 90-95mph fastball consistently with no problem. But when it comes to someone throwing multiple punches at me at much slower speeds then I have a problem. SS make be able to deflect the first punch thrown by Superman but certainly not all.
Also, remember SS hasn't shown any reasonable pivotal speed. So Supes zip appearing behind him (or to the right of him) would most likely end in SS being popped before he can turn to defend.
Lastly, don't take my numbers seriously. Millions of billions was used so that you get my point. If Supes can move his arms anywhere in the vicinity of light speed then who knows how many punches and kicks he can throw in a fraction of a second? Also .5km is no time for Supes to cover. He's instantly traveled much farther in less than a sec many times. I take it that he will get to SS nearly instantly.
From what I've seen of SS, personally I think Supes is very capable of getting the first hit in. Now the percentage of this is debatable.
Most give SS 6-7/10 some give 5/10. I give Supes 6/10. Now this is just my opinion based off what I've seen of SS against punches and other direct h2h physical attacks.
Originally posted by Avlon
His best showing (that I remember) was Planet Hulk and even then he was under control of a device. Still, it was pretty decent.
Originally posted by Avlon
I'm sure. Strong characters have knocked him off it before though. He seems much more helpless off the board. I don't have a problem agreeing that SS travels quickly on his board. My thing is off the board or on foot his speed pales greatly especially when compared to Superman, who even when not flying uses Superspeed on a regular basis without any aid.
Originally posted by h1a8
Responding to single energy blasts doesn't prove that SS is able to stop every attack thrown by Supes. This takes skill. For multiple punches will be thrown and not just one. Baseball is my specialty. I could have been a professional if I wasn't such a knucklehead. I can easily hit a straight 90-95mph fastball consistently with no problem. But when it comes to someone throwing multiple punches at me at much slower speeds then I have a problem. SS make be able to deflect the first punch thrown by Superman but certainly not all.Also, remember SS hasn't shown any reasonable pivotal speed. So Supes zip appearing behind him (or to the right of him) would most likely end in SS being popped before he can turn to defend.
Lastly, don't take my numbers seriously. Millions of billions was used so that you get my point. If Supes can move his arms anywhere in the vicinity of light speed then who knows how many punches and kicks he can throw in a fraction of a second? Also .5km is no time for Supes to cover. He's instantly traveled much farther in less than a sec many times. I take it that he will get to SS nearly instantly.
From what I've seen of SS, personally I think Supes is very capable of getting the first hit in. Now the percentage of this is debatable.
Most give SS 6-7/10 some give 5/10. I give Supes 6/10. Now this is just my opinion based off what I've seen of SS against punches and other direct h2h physical attacks.
As for "pivotal speed", take a look at the first scan. Surfer pivots his body to bring his right hand up to block the blast.
Originally posted by AvlonI haven't suggested that Surfer ignore anything. The more likely scenario is Superman using superior speed and strength to KO Surfer. SS has options (as does Supes) but the standard scenario would probably involve SS shooting cosmic blasts and Superman flying in and punching as that is what they both do most of the time.
If people want to make elaborate scenarios for Surfer, they can be used for Clark as well.
And your opinion is fine. It's a double/triple edged sword though. Each are weak to different things so durability is relative. However, Thanos and Supes are both far stronger than Surfer with Thanos and Supes being peers in that category. Thanos also being much slower than Superman handles Surfer with ease. Amazingly, Thanos is also weak to a mysterious green energy and SS cosmic awareness sure never told him how to create that or that the weakness even existed...
Actually that is the least likely scenario. Surfer has ways such as intangibility and forcefields to nullify supes physical attacks. Supes on the other hand while durable can only use his body to bear the brunt of SS attacks. The options SS has far outnumber those supes has which really is simply knocking SS out physically something which of recent SS has proven is extremely hard to do.
Also what is SS weak against? Dont tell me its fists. Also thanos and supes really should not evn be called in the same sentence when talking about how they deal with SS. Thanos for one can nearly match SS versatiltiy wise and is superior output wise and has durability that makes him practically immune to all SS attacks. As for the thanos weakness thing, it is simply a huge plot device marvel created in regards to thanos and so im not sure galactus himself would be able to reproduce it let alone SS.
Using kryptonite as Supermans strength is a very good ploy, but he was fighting a mere human (Batman).
In the JLA/Avengers cross, Radioactive man uses an energy wavelength that he thought was useless... it was K-nite radiation, it is feasible, that Norrin Radd could use this wavelenth as well, and it is well within his power to duplicate this feat.
Unlike Batman the Silver Surfer can amp his strength to Superman levels while bombarding Kal with K-nite rads, and it would be easy for him to KO, or even kill Superman. this all of course depends on if the Silver Surfer knows Supermans weakness'.
If he did not I could see Superman knocking the Silver Surfer out much like the Runner did, with a series of punches, kicks and whatever else he has in his arsenal.
Silver Surfer prepped 8/10 FTW
Silver Surfer unprepped 2/10 for a crushing loss.
Originally posted by Avlon
The fight in which you are talking about, Clark wasn't even trying to fight and it's the Up, Up, and Away arc. At the end of the arc, Supes beat Lex while depowered as well.That still doesn't discount his feats against Kryptonite Batman. Give the man his credit when it's due. He also did something similar to Shrapnel.
Agreed, that was a nice ass feat but I just thought that you were trying to make him and batman fighting skills equal.
Nice feat though.
Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Using kryptonite as Supermans strength is a very good ploy, but he was fighting a mere human (Batman).In the JLA/Avengers cross, Radioactive man uses an energy wavelength that he thought was useless... it was K-nite radiation, it is feasible, that Norrin Radd could use this wavelenth as well, and it is well within his power to duplicate this feat.
Unlike Batman the Silver Surfer can amp his strength to Superman levels while bombarding Kal with K-nite rads, and it would be easy for him to KO, or even kill Superman. this all of course depends on if the Silver Surfer knows Supermans weakness'.
If he did not I could see Superman knocking the Silver Surfer out much like the Runner did, with a series of punches, kicks and whatever else he has in his arsenal.
Silver Surfer prepped 8/10 FTW
Silver Surfer unprepped 2/10 for a crushing loss.
The silver surfer that fought the runner is actually less durable than current SS. The runner is also faster than superman. And evn in that fight the runner defeated SS in a stationary position by simply overpowering him. On this forum SS wont be getting into a test of strength with supes.
Originally posted by ultimatethor
The silver surfer that fought the runner is actually less durable than current SS. The runner is also faster than superman. And evn in that fight the runner defeated SS in a stationary position by simply overpowering him. On this forum SS wont be getting into a test of strength with supes.
I don't see why Kal could not turn this fight into one that favors his strengths, he is not a mere novice.
Superman can generate planet quaking impacts, did Tenebrous not employ such force against Norrin? Aegis nearly smacked the Silver off of him so to speak, and that was with one slap.
In my honest opinion, Superman has the power to KO even this upgraded Surfer. This of course as I stated earlier is if Norrin Radd does not know Supermans weakness'.
I haven't suggested that Surfer ignore anything. The more likely scenario is Superman using superior speed and strength to KO Surfer. SS has options (as does Supes) but the standard scenario would probably involve SS shooting cosmic blasts and Superman flying in and punching as that is what they both do most of the time.
The only way I can see this happening is by you proving that superman strength is>T&A and by you saying that your basically saying that superman can outmuscle galactus.
It's up for you to prove that he can since you are making a case for it. Is any of it on panel? How would he know? Cosmic awareness is not that specific to characters and pretty useless in battle.
I agree with this but I dont think that surfer would need to exploit any weakness in this fight to win it. His power alone would grant him the win. A Supernova blast temporarily knocked superman out and the thing about it is that it was a amp superman and the supernova came from a yellow sun. Im pretty sure surfer possess more power then that since he can basically power up and destroy a planet.
The more likely scenario is Superman using superior speed and strength to KO Surfer.
I agree with this, superman does throw faster punches BUT what is superman going to do if surfer becomes intagible. Surfer could basically just sit down after that and think of a way to kill superman while superman is just punching away.
Each are weak to different things so durability is relative.
I think that surfer is a lot more durable then superman unless you can prove that superman can take a moon crushing punch and still be fighting.
However, Thanos and Supes are both far stronger than Surfer with Thanos and Supes being peers in that category.
I disagree with this, I dont think that either are stronger then surfer, surfer and thanos never locked arms before, thanos outfight surfer. We dont know the limit of surfer strength since he has yet to lift something or even struggle against something, so that is debatable and should be left alone.
Thanos is also weak to a mysterious green energy and SS cosmic awareness sure never told him how to create that or that the weakness even existed...
and how many times was this mentioned, I hope more then once because if not then you can basically throw that out the window since it was just part of the story. Superman being weak to kryptonite and magic has been known for decades.
