Originally posted by Erik-LensherrCurrent Superman has been knocked senseless more than a few times by a few different characters punches. Lets not haggle over losses here.
The sad part is that current Superman is much more powerfull than that version, while it was current Surfer who was put in an arm-bar by Black Panther.
But regardless I stand by my opinion on this matter.
Surfer wins due to his versatility and his ability to exploit the man of steel's weaknesses imo.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Current Superman has been knocked senseless more than a few times by a few different characters punches. Lets not haggle over losses here.But regardless I stand by my opinion on this matter.
Surfer wins due to his versatility and his ability to exploit the man of steel's weaknesses imo.
The relevance of this to what I said is .. ?
Originally posted by Avlon
In the 1st scan he redirected it though. He didn't actually create it.He did get some help though since he didn't do it on his own. I see what you are going for though between the 2 scans.
Surfer is not powered by red sol energy but PC and in order for him to absorb unto himself that suns energies he needs to transform those energies into PC, therefore he now knows the composition of red sol rad. (Supes weakness).. Knowing these configuration, he should be able to create this form of energies through his own energy reserve..
Well Norrin Soul was trapped within this Blackbody by Unilord and from that he did everything on his own from; summoning his broken body parts and remaining PC, upgrading himself to match this Blackbody configuration and then transforming the remaining soul energies to psi and then into PC for his own use..
So then you agree that Surfer can create an energy blast of red sol composition? Since you seem to know what i was going for 🙂 ..
Originally posted by Avlon
The whole arc actually has Ruin using Red Sunlight and native anti kryptonian weaponry. Which actually leads to my next point and why I chose that particular scan...Supes is completely blocked off from the sun in this scan. Ruin did the same thing actually. However, as SS and Supes are fighting outdoors, my scan applies and overrides the indoor one.
Even then, Supes has fought many a powerful being under the influence of red sunlight and done well. He's even done well under kryptonite/red sun combination.
Not really plenty of light in that scan, They might be fighting outdoors but the thread starter never said anything about yellow star and the likes present in the battlefield..
His also fought as much or perhaps more under same similative happenstance resulting in very poor showings..
Originally posted by Avlon
Plus, it's freaking Amazo. He'd smack down both Supes and SS at full power and have a hearty laugh doing so.Agreed. Superman has punched though many a forcefield in his career though, and as shown in my scan a much slower Thanos knocked and angry SS off his board and put him down fairly easily.
SS forcefield have withstood savage Hulks relenting assault as well as his own physical durability, not to mention all this is prior to a few upgrade. Forcefield or no he can withstood blows from Supes but not indefinitely dough just enough to form a tactical counter assault and each direct hit from red sol blast weakens Supes.
In regards to him being brutally beaten to a pulp by Thanos, He was taken by surprise, an ambush. All whats needed from that level of power to take him out, unlike this fights Surfer is completely aware of the situation....
I'm not aware of Absorbing man doing something similar to Thanos.
Originally posted by Ambient
So then you agree that Surfer can create an energy blast of red sol composition? Since you seem to know what i was going for 🙂 ..
Knowing what you are going for and agreeing with it are 2 different things. 🙂
Originally posted by Ambient
Right but like i said Surfer energy output >>>>> Ruins weaponry..Not really plenty of light in that scan, They might be fighting outdoors but the thread starter never said anything about yellow star and the likes present in the battlefield..
His also fought as much or perhaps more under same similative happenstance resulting in very poor showings..
His usual red solar battles tend to be indoors or completely away from the sun. I never claimed that SS couldn't output more energy than Ruin. My claim is that it was very specifically anti kryptonian weaponry that came from krypton itself and was wielded by a man who was the biggest expert on Superman on Earth.
Also, what poor showings are you referring to?
Originally posted by Ambient
Agreed, Amazo as a whole would smack both down but what was used to put down Supes quite rather easy was FS ability something within SS powers to duplicate..
Away from yellow energy against a far superior opponent to SS is not a bad showing in any way. Considering Supes has been tossed multiple times through red sun's and come out ok and still able to battle, he's still more than able to battle IF SS can reproduce or even knows about the weakness.
The more likely scenario is that a good ko punch take surfer out.
Originally posted by Ambient
SS forcefield have withstood savage Hulks relenting assault as well as his own physical durability, not to mention all this is prior to a few upgrade. Forcefield or no he can withstood blows from Supes but not indefinitely dough just enough to form a tactical counter assault and each direct hit from red sol blast weakens Supes.
The upgrade hasn't shown to be fruitful yet so that's mostly speculative at this point and as for blasts, I believe hits from Superman are far more effective than speculative blasts (we still havent seen SS pull them off) since we have seen Surfer get KO'd by guys who are in Supes tier of strength and even below.
Originally posted by Ambient
In regards to him being brutally beaten to a pulp by Thanos, He was taken by surprise, an ambush. All whats needed from that level of power to take him out, unlike this fights Surfer is completely aware of the situation....
He was flying at Thanos who knocked him off his board. SS was the one trying to ambush.. Also considering that Thanos is in Superman's strength class, can't fly, and is far slower than Supes. It's a good case against SS.
Lunatik (which I fight to be SS best H2H battle) also physically dominated him and even KO'd SS for HOURS with his own board with far less than the planet destroying punches that Superman is capable of.
Originally posted by Ambient
I'm not aware of Absorbing man doing something similar to Thanos.
He didn't. He did that to SS,.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you have an instance of a top tier beating Surfer before he has time to react?
Originally posted by Avlon
Dr Strange did it to a bloodlusted SS.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Dr. Strange has abilities that Superman doesnt. So Strange can do what Superman cannot in this instance imo.
You mean Dr. Strange has faster reaction time than Superman?
Originally posted by Avlon
Knowing what you are going for and agreeing with it are 2 different things. 🙂His usual red solar battles tend to be indoors or completely away from the sun. I never claimed that SS couldn't output more energy than Ruin. My claim is that it was very specifically anti kryptonian weaponry that came from krypton itself and was wielded by a man who was the biggest expert on Superman on Earth.
Also, what poor showings are you referring to?
Away from yellow energy against a far superior opponent to SS is not a bad showing in any way. Considering Supes has been tossed multiple times through red sun's and come out ok and still able to battle, he's still more than able to battle IF SS can reproduce or even knows about the weakness.
The more likely scenario is that a good ko punch take surfer out.
The upgrade hasn't shown to be fruitful yet so that's mostly speculative at this point and as for blasts, I believe hits from Superman are far more effective than speculative blasts (we still havent seen SS pull them off) since we have seen Surfer get KO'd by guys who are in Supes tier of strength and even below.
He was flying at Thanos who knocked him off his board. SS was the one trying to ambush.. Also considering that Thanos is in Superman's strength class, can't fly, and is far slower than Supes. It's a good case against SS.
Lunatik (which I fight to be SS best H2H battle) also physically dominated him and even KO'd SS for HOURS with his own board with far less than the planet destroying punches that Superman is capable of.
He didn't. He did that to SS,.
Rep this man.
Originally posted by ultimatethorPlease read this entire post before responding as I most like might concede to SS winning in the end.
SS has created forcefields numerous times. It is not one of his rare powers. It is something he has used throughout his career. Most recently post anihalation SS was able to shield multiple ships in an entire different location just by blinking. He has used forcefields far more times than evn superman has used his speed in battle. Heck evn IF(not very likely) superman gets a punch in before SS can get up his forcefield he certainly wont get in enough punches to do SS any real damage.All ss needs to set up the forcefield is a thought. Then when u consider his mental processing speed is far far far faster than light speed it is obvious that he will be able to get the forcefield up in time.
Two times makes numerous times doesn't it? What about three times? SS using a forcefield is one of the rarest things in all of comics. Just look at all the SS comics and you will see what I'm talking about. Superman has used speed in battle at least 10x more times than SS has used a forcefield. How do you think everyone and their mama know that Supes is fast?
Of the very few times SS has used a shield how many times did he do so in battle against another being? What is the percentage of times he used a shield in battle vs. all the battles he has been in? The same logic that applies to Supes should apply to SS. Fair is fair!
I personally don't use statistics heavily when arguing fights. If a character has performed something at least a few times then it is acceptable that they can do it in the forum fight. Thus I give SS his shields and Supes his speed.
If SS can get shields all around him then he wins and I gladly concede. If he can't then Supes has a good chance to tag him. And know that I prefer SS over Supes any day of the week. This is because he has far the better powers. It's just that SS has disappointed me with his fighting many many times and it's very hard for me to see him stopping Supes from hitting him without fighting out of character.
Originally posted by Ouallada
Apparently, this:Says that an attribute cannot be extrapolated for a similar, yet different situation, just as being able to move an arm quickly is not the same as being able to punch quickly.
My analogy refers to skill and not power. Power equals power and has absolutely nothing to do with skill. For example, if Superman never lifted a car yet has lifted tanks, airplanes, etc instead then he most definitely can lift a car. This is because this feat requires that he has the necessary power and lifting tanks proves that he has. The same goes with being able to move your arm fast implies that you can indeed punch with similar speed. You would be using the same power where skill doesn't apply.