Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I agree. Screw the bashing. Let's go with pure arguments. Fact: Silver Surfer has bonified nanosecond reflexes and feats. Other fact: Superman does not have any bonified nanosecond reflexes or feats.Case closed.
Surfer may not utilize his combat speed often, but his FTL reflexes more than compensate for Superman's clearly below FTL combat speeds. Nuff said.
Fact, most nascar drivers react at high speeds but does that mean they will skillfully avoid any heavyweights boxers punches. Theres a difference between navigation reflexes and combat feflexes. Besides did SS bonofied nanosecond feflexes help him avoid Thor,BP,Carnage,Thanos or eveb Cable?
Originally posted by Avlon
I don't think anyone has said SS is slow at all. He's an extremely fast traveler. It's his battle/fight speed and reflexes that have a lot more negatives than positives since he either doesn't have it or utilize it.Supes has low points? He sure does. Guess what, so does Surfer.
If people want to play the Hi/Low game, that's fine. Supes can compete nicely in both fields.I've said for quite a while that they have ways to beat each other. Any [b]sensible
fan can see that. [/B]
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Fact, most nascar drivers react at high speeds but does that mean they will skillfully avoid any heavyweights boxers punches. Theres a difference between navigation reflexes and combat feflexes. Besides did SS bonofied nanosecond feflexes help him avoid Thor,BP,Carnage,Thanos or eveb Cable?
And using instances where Surfer doesn't prove anything. Characters use their speed consistently on KMC regardless of the frequency in which it's seen in comics. That's why Supes blitzes consistently on KMC despite the relative rarity of it's use in Supes's overall appearances.
Originally posted by The Great Galenkonvikt.... 😐
Fact, most nascar drivers react at high speeds but does that mean they will skillfully avoid any heavyweights boxers punches. Theres a difference between navigation reflexes and combat feflexes. Besides did SS bonofied nanosecond feflexes help him avoid Thor,BP,Carnage,Thanos or eveb Cable?
anyway, surfer's durability is too great for an extended knockout from simple combo from superman, his cosmic glaze is one of the strongest substances in marvel.
i've seen it get cracked before, but those times were from morg after wol amp (the board), bludgeoned by thanos w/ ig, the battle with E & T, and a special laser vivisected him, but he promptly reassembled himself since he is both a master matter re-arranger and a being with only one organ, his brain (that to can be matter manipulated )
Originally posted by The Great GalenSeriously. Is there a conception that Surfer has zero combat speed or reflexes? Seconds, milliseconds, microseconds, nanoseconds. Light moves only one foot within a single nanosecond. Surfer's got the near light-speed or FTL combat/reflex feats. Superman doesn't.
Fact, most nascar drivers react at high speeds but does that mean they will skillfully avoid any heavyweights boxers punches. Theres a difference between navigation reflexes and combat feflexes. Besides did SS bonofied nanosecond feflexes help him avoid Thor,BP,Carnage,Thanos or eveb Cable?
1) Can Superman fly around at blinding speeds and take potshots at Surfer? Sure. Could Surfer deal with it? When he can actually track a guy using instantaneous teleportation doing the same thing, spin around physically and take them out with a cosmic blast, yeah... I'd say he could deal with it. Is Superman faster than instantaneous teleportation? Flash is, doubt Superman is:
2) And here I suppose you would use the Nascar analogy again, but Silver Surfer isn't just navigating, he's weaving through blasts, busts through three or four vibranium walls and grabs Nova before the thing explodes by a signal sent the exact moment the first wall is breached:
^ continued. How fast was he moving, reacting, blasting in those scans? I'd easily say FTL. But instead of relying on those, let's move on to some perfectly quantifiable and clear speed/reflex feats:
3) Within seconds. It's already proven that Silver Surfer can navigate nearly all of Earth's capitals physically and attack them in the space of seconds. I can't even begin to quantify the distance travelled divided by the time needed to do all that in the space of seconds:
4) Within a single second. Actually a tenth of a second, Surfer manages to pull Mantis and Shalla Bal away from inside a cosmic sphere detonation that he wasn't even aware was booby-trapped:
5) Within a single microsecond (millionth of a second). I don't think a Nascar driver can assess the particulars of what's going on around them in a second. They react through trained reflexes. They certainly dont use Cosmic Awareness to assess that a fugitive is trying to escape a dreadnought starship and then streak towards them to save her ALL in less than a microsecond:
6) Within nanoseconds (billionths of a second). Nascar drivers can react to cars that are roughly going the same speed as they are. They can also anticipate how they're going to behave. It's a very different situation when things are coming at you from all angles at similar speeds. Silver Surfer flying around, avoiding these light speed lasers coming at him from all sides, blasting through walls and tracking this light speed signal ALL in the space of nanoseconds is not analagous to Nascar driving:
7) Within a single nanosecond. Silver Surfer flexing his entire body within a nanosecond cannot be anything else other than a FTL combat reflex since he is stationary and not travelling:
Superman's got great combat speed. He doesn't have FTL combat speed, nowhere near it. Superman ought to be able to surprise Surfer with his combat speed, but Surfer's FTL combat reflexes are easily up to task. Finally, do Superman's combat reflexes help him avoid Kalibak, Batman, Plasmus, Darkseid or even Manchester Black? Nuff said.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
[b]3) Within seconds. It's already proven that Silver Surfer can navigate nearly all of Earth's capitals physically and attack them in the space of seconds. I can't even begin to quantify the distance travelled divided by the time needed to do all that in the space of seconds:
I apologize to you and anyone else who were misinformed because of my error, I'll be having Digi correct that particular insert in the respect thread. My bad... 😮
Originally posted by OneDumbG0those scans are hard to make out, but i don't see the word "nano-second(s)" mentioned anywhere in them. did i miss something?
[b]6) Within nanoseconds (billionths of a second). Nascar drivers can react to cars that are roughly going the same speed as they are. They can also anticipate how they're going to behave. It's a very different situation when things are coming at you from all angles at similar speeds. Silver Surfer flying around, avoiding these light speed lasers coming at him from all sides, blasting through walls and tracking this light speed signal ALL in the space of nanoseconds is not analagous to Nascar driving:
Originally posted by OneDumbG0read what's happening in the scan. surfer says:
[b]7) Within a single nanosecond. Silver Surfer flexing his entire body within a nanosecond cannot be anything else other than a FTL combat reflex since he is stationary and not travelling:
"a nano-second more and i shall be thus encumbered for all eternity."
then, as he breaks free of the device, surfer exclaims:
"but that nano-second will not pass."
why bring this up? well, unless surfer drastically slowed, or stopped time completely - then that feat simply was not accomplished in a literal "nano-second".
why? because after surfer says he has "a nano-second more", he says 9 additional words [ie. finishes his sentence] before attempting to break free. i guess he could just talk really, really fast though. *shrugs*
Originally posted by Galan007
read what's happening in the scan, surfer says:"a nano-second more and i shall be thus encumbered for all eternity."
then, as he breaks free of the device, surfer exclaims:
"but that nano-second will not pass."
why bring this up? well, unless surfer drastically slowed, or stopped time completely - then that feat simply was not accomplished in a literal "nano-second".
why? because after surfer says he has "a nano-second more", he says 9 additional words before attempting to break free. i guess he could just talk really, really fast though. *shrugs*
Originally posted by darthgooberi'm sure they can 'speed-talk'. however, is there any evidence surfer was doing such in that particular instance? unless there is, i'd just assume he was talking at an 'average' rate - thus making the word "nano-second" a tad hyperbolish. only my opinion.
I thought all people with super speed could? Isn't there a scan of Supes, WW, and someone else carrying on an entire conversation at superspeed floating around the forum?
Originally posted by Galan007
i'm sure they can 'speed-talk'. however, is there any evidence surfer was doing such in that particular instance? unless there is, i'd just assume he was talking at an 'average' rate - thus making the word "nano-second" a tad hyperbolish. just my opinion.
Well he isn't speaking at all, those are thought bubbles.
Originally posted by Galan007
the bubbles look the same when surfer is both in, and out, of the device. 😕
The only time anyone speaks in that scan is the very top where SS says I'm free.
Every other time it is thought bubbles, it's pretty clear.
So they just happen to use a well known thing as thought bubbles, and clearly make it look different from the part where he speaks, but they were meaning for him to be speaking? I don't think so.
