Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by Avlon
Same Superman was able to move Batman around the planet in mid-sentence and fight 2 battles in different cities on camera at the same time.

Change clothes completely while in line of sight of someone in multiple occasions.

Physically disarm armies before anyone of them could think.

Remove all artifacts from an enhanced Arions body before he could think/react/notice.

Rubbed his hands fast enough on panel to create an EM field that allowed him to seal a black hole.

Built a city in seconds while onlookers watched.

Defeated the Elite before they even knew what hit them.

Laughed at Mongul's speed and toyed with him even created after images, and Mongul has superspeed.

Speedblitzed Lobo, who also has superspeed.

Vibrated invisible and intangible through Doomsdays blasts and outsped him in battle.

Physically RAN with the FLASH and kept pace with him at high speeds.

Tons more I'm not remembering at the moment.

Avlon: That was the shits man, well done. As ive been mentioning beforehand all of SS reflexes/speed goes into his navigation and travelling....there is virtually nothing to suggest he can travel at those speeds in h2h combat. In fact Spiderman has more impressive battle speed then SS a lot of the time. Oh i did want to mention one thing though...wasnt SS punked by Khoon?

Originally posted by Avlon
Same here. If it takes THAT much explaining for over 30 years of feats, somethings wrong.

Superman's been rebooted twice and still have a solid speed feat base to use. Surfer doesn't have FTL reactions (far from it) and MOST people haven't claimed Superman is going to be fighting faster than light. Although, as much as things are being stretched, it could definitely be argued that there was FTL fighting in Sacrifice...which would also mean Wonder Woman can fight at those speeds.

The only PIS in the BP incident was the armbar holding Surfer. It simply showcased how sad Surfers reactions are in battle.

It sort of reminds me of another debate, where Thor fans used an ambiguous feat he displayed many years ago, with him making a ditch with his hammer at superspeed or something like that, and then say that he has the speed to keep up with Superman. 😂

^

Oops. Guess Superman is slower than Chemo. I'll just ignore all the other speed feats he has in his career that clearly prove he has nearly lightspeed combat speed and/or reflexes and conclude that Superman has crappy speed from a single scene. It couldn't be PIS after all.

😗

Originally posted by darthgoober
And those are all impressive feats that contradict the instance where Slade chumped Supes, but if an impressive record contradicting the low end feat nullifies it than why do you keep bringing up the BP armbar incident?

Because there isn't much or anything to really counteract it in battle. The big PIS in that battle is that BP armbarred SS and he couldn't get out of it. Fast characters get tagged all the time in comics. Slow characters are made to seem like they are faster than they really are or we would have 2 panel stories.

How to measure who really has viable superspeed in battle and who doesn't? Things have to be put into perspective. Flash and Superman both have feats where they do extremely complex actions physically and without the aid of anything such as a surfboard/hammer/spacebike/etc.

Surfer doesn't really have anything on foot or h2h that is highly impressive or even spidey level. His closest that I've seen is in his impressive battle with Lunatik.

In a few decades, his best feats are still travelling feats and they have to be explained away with details that the writers themselves probably didn't think about.

Originally posted by darthgoober
2You act as if Surfer doesn't have impressive feats of mental speed and reflexes

I'm not acting like anything. I've given kudos to Surfer's speed a few times in this thread. I'm just bringing up his battle speed. By this point he should have some examples of amazing battle speed/footspeed/etc.

I'm willing to bet that if SS wasn't on his board and were to fight Quicksilver, (not that QS would win) he'd be embarrassed when it comes to speed at least.

Supes would outspeed Quicksilver in H2H with no problem if he wanted.

Originally posted by darthgoober
but does the armbar incident not run counter to the time Surfer searched the surface of the entire planet in seconds, specifically travel to nearly every capital on the planet in seconds,

Traveling on his board and off panel. He could have used his PC to search the globe as he circled it. We don't know.

Originally posted by darthgoober
outran explosions that HE caused at point blank range,

This sounds impressive. Did SS do this on foot by any chance? Just curious.

Originally posted by darthgoober
chased down electrical signals already in progress, and the numerous

On his board? Is there a scan in the respect thread for this?

Originally posted by darthgoober
instances of Surfer blocking/dodging energy blast after they're fired?

This is done all the time by street level characters. GI Joe guys run through multiple laser fire all the time.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I mean if BP was moving faster than an energy blast then how would his getting Surfer in an armlock be all that bad of a showing anyway?

The PIS was the BP was able to hold him (doesn't make any sense whatsoever) and the biggest problem with it was Surfers reaction time. Had there been tons of instances of him using superspeed in physical battle to counteract it, it would be different.

Originally posted by Philosophía
It sort of reminds me of another debate, where Thor fans used an ambiguous feat he displayed many years ago, with him making a ditch with his hammer at superspeed or something like that, and then say that he has the speed to keep up with Superman. 😂

Was that the light speed pie? 😉

Originally posted by Avlon
Because there isn't much or anything to really counteract it in battle. The big PIS in that battle is that BP armbarred SS and he couldn't get out of it. Fast characters get tagged all the time in comics. Slow characters are made to seem like they are faster than they really are or we would have 2 panel stories.

How to measure who really has viable superspeed in battle and who doesn't? Things have to be put into perspective. Flash and Superman both have feats where they do extremely complex actions physically and without the aid of anything such as a surfboard/hammer/spacebike/etc.

Surfer doesn't really have anything on foot or h2h that is highly impressive or even spidey level. His closest that I've seen is in his impressive battle with Lunatik.

In a few decades, his best feats are still travelling feats and they have to be explained away with details that the writers themselves probably didn't think about.

I'm not acting like anything. I've given kudos to Surfer's speed a few times in this thread. I'm just bringing up his battle speed. By this point he should have some examples of amazing battle speed/footspeed/etc.

I'm willing to bet that if SS wasn't on his board and were to fight Quicksilver, (not that QS would win) he'd be embarrassed when it comes to speed at least.

Supes would outspeed Quicksilver in H2H with no problem if he wanted.

Traveling on his board and off panel. He could have used his PC to search the globe as he circled it. We don't know.

This sounds impressive. Did SS do this on foot by any chance? Just curious.

On his board? Is there a scan in the respect thread for this?

This is done all the time by street level characters. GI Joe guys run through multiple laser fire all the time.

The PIS was the BP was able to hold him (doesn't make any sense whatsoever) and the biggest problem with it was Surfers reaction time. Had there been tons of instances of him using superspeed in physical battle to counteract it, it would be different.

So what's the fastest confirmed blitzing speed Supes has used in combat? Once I know that, then I'll know what to shoot for in terms of reflex feats for Surfer.

Originally posted by Avlon
Was that the light speed pie? 😉

No, but thanks for reminding me of that one also crylaugh

Originally posted by Philosophía
I'm still laughing at SS's 'impressive' combat speed feats. 😂

Originally posted by darthgoober You know Avy, I just realized why the two of us always end up trapped in the same circles. See I'm always trying to defend Surfer ability to respond to an unquantified blitz and that's just not possible. We need to know what level of speed Surfer's going to HAVE to react to before we can properly determine whether or not it's possible. So what's the fastest confirmed blitzing speed Supes has used in combat? Once I know that, then I'll know what to shoot for in terms of reflex feats for Surfer.

Originally posted by fangirl101
There is no quatifiable Speed. But I do know that it took amazo using Flashes powers to be able to react to superman's blitz and actually over come the blitz. Now Surfer could possibly over come the blitz if he's as tuff DS. Cuz superman blitz DS much the same way he did amazo cept DS just took the punches and then retaliated and Superman couldn't react fast enough once he'd launched his own attack. So it's possible that if the surfer had near Flash speed and near DS durability, he could pull of some combination of the amazo/DS attack. Just my two cents.

And then tag Supes with a blast while Supes recovers from the rebound of the impact and trap him in a containment bubble like this...
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8051/defendersv21226uz1.jpg

Yes Supes could do the whole vibration thing to phase though a typical forcefield but it's going to take him a second and I doubt he could do it at all if it was composed of red sun radiation(which would also subsequently block Supes from absorbing anymore yellow sunlight). But even if Supes manages to get out, but now HE'S going to be the one on in a vulnerable position because Surfer will have had plenty of time to move on to something else that's going to throw Supes for a loop or come up with a suitable location to BFR him to.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Did it say that Amazo HAD to use Flash's speed, or is Flash's speed just what he happened to choose? I mean if you're wanting to react to a speedster you might as well pick the one that's best qualified. And since Surfer and Supes are neck and neck in the durability department, I'd say that he's probably at least comparable with DS in the durability department. But he doesn't really have to do either when he could raise a forcefield like this while Supes closed the .5 kilometer gap between them...
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1355/annihilationsilversurfexe9.jpg

And then tag Supes with a blast while Supes recovers from the rebound of the impact and trap him in a containment bubble like this...
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8051/defendersv21226uz1.jpg

Yes Supes could do the whole vibration thing to phase though a typical forcefield but it's going to take him a second and I doubt he could do it at all if it was composed of red sun radiation(which would also subsequently block Supes from absorbing anymore yellow sunlight). But even if Supes manages to get out, but now HE'S going to be the one on in a vulnerable position because Surfer will have had plenty of time to move on to something else that's going to throw Supes for a loop or come up with a suitable location to BFR him to.

Of course amazo had to use the flashes speed. using Super's speed wouldn't have been enough. He needed someone faster. I dont' think Superman nor Surfer are as Durable as DS. Becuz Superman could not stan up to his own assault of that calibre. As noted when he and zod where beating the hell out of each other. Zod's strength is comparible to Superman's. DS took Superman's best to no effect. I'm saying Surfer would have to use some combination of high durability and faster than superman speed to be able to pull of a victory. can surfer do that. Sure. Not more than 5/10 IMO. If surfer were that fast, he wouldn't get blasted like a silly every time slow thanos threw a blast at him. he'd evade or shield himself. Just my two cents.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Of course amazo had to use the flashes speed. using Super's speed wouldn't have been enough. He needed someone faster.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I dont' think Superman nor Surfer are as Durable as DS. Becuz Superman could not stan up to his own assault of that calibre. As noted when he and zod where beating the hell out of each other. Zod's strength is comparible to Superman's. DS took Superman's best to no effect.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I'm saying Surfer would have to use some combination of high durability and faster than superman speed to be able to pull of a victory.

Originally posted by fangirl101
can surfer do that. Sure. Not more than 5/10 IMO.

Originally posted by fangirl101
If surfer were that fast, he wouldn't get blasted like a silly every time slow thanos threw a blast at him. he'd evade or shield himself. Just my two cents.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^

Oops. Guess Superman is slower than Chemo. I'll just ignore all the other speed feats he has in his career that clearly prove he has nearly lightspeed combat speed and/or reflexes and conclude that Superman has crappy speed from a single scene. It couldn't be PIS after all.

😗

"But dude, Surfer tracks billions and billions of stars mentally with pinpoint accuracy while he travels on his board and because of that he ha lightspeed refle... oops.."

😉

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^

Oops. Guess Superman is slower than Chemo. I'll just ignore all the other speed feats he has in his career that clearly prove he has nearly lightspeed combat speed and/or reflexes and conclude that Superman has crappy speed from a single scene. It couldn't be PIS after all.

😗

hey, dude, what the- wait, you're not quan...

Originally posted by Avlon
"But dude, Surfer tracks billions and billions of stars mentally with pinpoint accuracy while he travels on his board and because of that he ha lightspeed refle... oops.."

😉

Norrin

Originally posted by Avlon
"But dude, Surfer tracks billions and billions of stars mentally with pinpoint accuracy while he travels on his board and because of that he ha lightspeed refle... oops.."

😉

pip used the space gem to teleport in front of him, the space gem's teleportation is totally instantaneous.

...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Which is contradicted by a more recent showing...

Actually it's not. In the same scan 1st it says that LI appears in the DISTANT starscape. The living Tribunal then adds that speed and distance don't have any relevance since time has stopped.