Originally posted by ultimatethor
In the scan where u showed SS being knocked out, he was already in pain due to his seemingly growing madness before he was hit by multiple meteors not just one. Heck he was in a meteor shower.
Yeah, it wasn't just one, no doubt.
But I don't see anything that indicates that the madness was actually knocking him out, or even hurting him. Confusing him? Definitely. It's what allowed the Meteor shower to catch him 'unawares', so to speak.
Originally posted by Enyalus
The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2004 confirms that the Hulk has superspeed. And as scans show, he couldn't touch Surfer, who was dodging with ease.
So that's what we're down to now? Handbook references and the claim that HULK has Super Speed?
C'mon.
I guess the Shaggy Man has super speed as well!
Yes, that's right - I just used Surfer dodging Hulk as a combat speed feat. What, son, I'm a gangsta.
Okay, I didn't read this before my response. 🙂
As long as we're all on the same page here, baby. 🙂
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Right...so if we have a beam that is 400 million K that it shot out at high speeds
But we won't have that, because his HV isn't that hot, and neither is anything else in this solar system.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Oh and you're saying SS wasn't in any way harmed from T&A and that he just simply shrugges off there blows.
Show me where I said that. Now.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
I find that "dodge it"comment pretty funny heh.
You would. Heat vision is heat. Which is light. Which comes out at light speed. Surfer has been confirmed on panel to move at 31.5 million times light speed. Supes will never hit him with it. Not to mention he can phase and turn intangible.
Originally posted by DesaadHe disarmed the warhead. Considering he didn't absorb an actual galaxy busting blast and the energy source was still glowing, I laugh at you for assuming he absorbed its energy completely, in spite of the art and in spite of what he actually says.
Taking? I suppose that could be interpreted in any number of ways. His body was able to successfully ABSORB that amount of energy, then? Is that preferable to you?
Originally posted by DesaadWe go even less further with self-serving logic and double-standards.
We're not going to get very far if you keep making unfounded claims.Playful is very different for you and for people like Gamora and Thanos. There is no evidence that he wasn't trying to tag her; the interaction between Drax and Adam make that very clear. They were trying to get each other. They weren't trying to KILL each other.
Most hero vs hero fights, or villain vs hero fights for that matter, don't come with the intention of death.
Most fights aren't fought with the intention of sparring for play and enjoyment either.
Originally posted by DesaadWolvergod?
And stalemated by Logan. Go figureI've seen them. They don't hold up as genuine combat superspeed.
If you want to take out specific examples and, you know, DEBATE them you are surely free to do so.
No. You just ignore them and can't even bring yourself to try to debunk my interpretation of them because I've been very careful in using ones that could be directly quantified by captions or against a measurable standard, such as a beam of light. I can't destroy your arguments when you haven't articulated them. I'm not a mind-reader.
Originally posted by DesaadThe same could be said of a brick like the General who has man-handled Superman before. Low-feats again? Good show. Good show. If you agree that a low feat debunks Surfer's capabilities as clearly measured in the list of scans. Then I can do the same and strip Superman by listing other low feats. Hell... didn't Darthgoober and others admit that Superman not being able to catch bullets in For Tomorrow was garbage? A directly quantifiable speed feat. But Supes gets a pass and Surfer doesn't? What does that smell like? *sniff* Double-standards.
Your point seems to rest on the fact that the Runner - a high level super speedster, absolutely - is the only such speedster ever to defeat the Surfer.That would be well and fine if we'd seen the Surfer face anyone with genuine combat super speed. Generally, though, it takes an atheletic human speed to dodge his punches and blasts, as Midnight Sun was able to do.
You brought up the reference and made a fallacious implication with it; I'm sure bringing that to light.
Originally posted by DesaadOne's a mineral from a different universe. The other is a common type of solar energy that happens in both universes. Good job.
They're analogous.
Originally posted by DesaadSurfer arguably knows because of the common knowledge rule. Surfer has sensed specific types of radiation that would depower Gladiator. Are you just blocking out parts of my posts that utterly humiliate you?
That's spectacular. I hope you and they are very happy together.But that doesn't change the fact that you can't come up with any sort of reference that would back up the fact that Surfer WOULD know about the Red Sunlight weakness (again, mind you, no contention that he would know that Superman is powered by sun energy).
Originally posted by Desaad😐 I'll download the comic and post the rest of it and I'll also try to show you how common, this knowledge of Gladiator's radiation weakness is throughout Marvel Universe.
Oh? And how did he know about it?(Hint: It was never said. It might be common knowledge, as Superman's Kryptonite knowledge tends to be in the DCU, and it was CERTAINLY never stated to be through his cosmic awareness or senses).
Originally posted by DesaadNo. You're on Surer's side of the debate. Since you assert Surfer wins the majority 6 to 4. Of course, you could never bring yourself to articulate why Surfer wins because you're too busy trying to hate on a character that you still concede is superior in a fight. I'd simply be happy and drop everything if you simply tell me in a paragraph of around 5 sentences, why Surfer beats Superman 6/10.
It's not a 'concession'. I'm not on one side of this debate and you on the other; I'm simply correcting you on a number of assumptions you made throughout.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As for super-speed thought:
Okay, I'm not going to go through each and every one, but...
Pulling someone out is just bumrushing again. That's travel super speed. It's impressive, outracing a blast like that, but it's not REACTING at super speed, countering super speed, etc.
I'm sure you can see the difference.
The rest seem to be a relative variation on that theme, but if there is one or two in particular you feel are more legitimate than please highlight them.
As to the 'thinking' example? Does Reed Richards, Brainiac 5, or EVERY robot have combat super speed? Because they can all do billions of calculations in their head as well.
Originally posted by Desaad
So that's what we're down to now? Handbook references and the claim that HULK has Super Speed?C'mon.
I guess the Shaggy Man has super speed as well!
Okay, I didn't read this before my response. 🙂
As long as we're all on the same page here, baby. 🙂
But for serious, handbooks are valid canon and it specifically says he has combat speed comparable to Thor.
And, I know Thor's combat speed is less than Superman's, but it doesn't effect or hamper him in any way in JLA/Avengers.
Surfer's infinite powers of he can do anything and wtfpwn anyone is why he can't even sell a comic book. The cock stroking of the character by fans and marvel turns the ambiguous surfer off the rest of the comic buying world.
Superman's infintie and ludicris ways of doing stuff he has no business with his limited set on the other hand astounds the masses but irks the true hard core comic fan.
these two ideals will never meet.
Comics- Superman wins.
Logically- Surfer wins.
In Character in a Forum Battle-6/10 Surfer. Maybe.
Originally posted by Desaad
The second one was just bumrushing again, grabbing Nova as he did it.
Originally posted by Desaad
Because he's only ever faced one Super Speester; The runner.He's got a 0% success rate against foes with verfiable superspeed.
Nova HAS Super Speed 😐 .
Originally posted by DesaadIt's teleportation. Show me where teleportation is not instantaneous or is exceeded by the speed of light.
Yeah, that's not combat Super Speed.Surfer tracks the TRAJECTORY of a teleportation which takes an unknown amount of time to work and fires where the energy is going to be.
Super Speed would have been him reacting to the appearance of the dragon monster and firing before the Dragon Monster was capable of doing anything.[/b][/quote]Superman has been initially hit by his foes before using his combat speed to defeat them too. You're the rockstar of double-standards my friend.
Originally posted by DesaadWhile I disagree, since he had to move his arms and grasp onto Nova, I understand the equivocation you're leaning on. Too bad you can't use the same dismissive logic about the rest. ANd rest assured that as soon as you start showing some Superman feats, I'll be using this same logic against you.
The second one was just bumrushing again, grabbing Nova as he did it.We've seen lots of characters WITHOUT combat super speed do just that.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Surfer's infinite powers of he can do anything and wtfpwn anyone is why he can't even sell a comic book. The cock stroking of the character by fans and marvel turns the ambiguous surfer off the rest of the comic buying world.Superman's infintie and ludicris ways of doing stuff he has no business with his limited set on the other hand astounds the masses but irks the true hard core comic fan.
these two ideals will never meet.
Comics- Superman wins.
Logically- Surfer wins.In Character in a Forum Battle-6/10 Surfer. Maybe.
Strangely, I liked and agreed with everything but the last two sentences.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Superman has been initially hit by his foes before using his combat speed to defeat them too. You're the rockstar of double-standards my friend.
It's teleportation. Show me where teleportation is not instantaneous or is exceeded by the speed of light.Super Speed would have been him reacting to the appearance of the dragon monster and firing before the Dragon Monster was capable of doing anything.
Originally posted by Desaad
I don't, really. Superman has absorbed a few different types of energies over the years, but I don't seriously believe he would ever do so to the Surfer. Just that, if you want to be technical, the precedent for such a move exists.I also tend to think that any energy absorption from the Surfer would be unlikely, and that there is a decent chance of Superman resisting it (as he has on a couple of occasions).
And yet while powered up he had some of his lowest showings in history as well (Black Panther).
Okay, how about this; bring me a scan or a reference where this weakness is SPECIFICALLY referenced.
Mind you, I want this reference to be in regards to Surfer's entrapment on earth SPECIFICALLY having weakened him, rather than the after effects of a cosmic nullifier or the like.
I've looked at them, but bum rushing a bunch of ships does not constitute COMBAT Super Speed (Super SPeed perceptions) in my eyes.
It's travel super speed. We've seen Green Lantern's do the same.
What are the few types of energies that superman has absorbed that are NOt sunlight related? No precedent for that sort of moves exists at all. superman is not an energy manipulator or even close to it. Thats just ridiculous.
Superman specifically stated against triumph that draining the energy from his cells wud kill him so cud u lease show where superman resists that same energy being drained by an SS level manipulator.
The ratio of low showings in his depowered days in comparison to those in his powered up days is not even comparable. He had far more low showings in his days on earth than he has had since. that is plainly obvious.. While on earth, surfer refers to himself not being as powerful as he once was. This is corroborated by the fact that when he is freed, surfer is consistently portrayed as being more powerful than he as while on earth, displaying higher levels of durability energy manipulation and so on. So therefore the feats u seem to enjoy bringin up can be nothin more than LOW feats which are not what we judge a character by according to forum rules.
And no it seems u havent looked at the scans. If u did u wud notice that Ss was not just bum rushing the ships. A person moving a non linear manner in multiple directions while intiating multiple attacks in multiple directions against multiple moving opponents and destroying those opponents before they can react is NOT a bull rush. Pls show me a scan of a gl doing similar
Originally posted by DesaadOf course you won't. Even though it's only a handful of examples that wouldn't take forever to address in an argument because you don't want to reveal how transparently baseless your objections are.
Okay, I'm not going to go through each and every one, but...Pulling someone out is just bumrushing again. That's travel super speed. It's impressive, outracing a blast like that, but it's not REACTING at super speed, countering super speed, etc.
I'm sure you can see the difference.
The rest seem to be a relative variation on that theme, but if there is one or two in particular you feel are more legitimate than please highlight them.
As to the 'thinking' example? Does Reed Richards, Brainiac 5, or EVERY robot have combat super speed? Because they can all do billions of calculations in their head as well.
No. They're not all a variation of bumrushing. Your general dismissal with this simplistic logic, especially with regards to the last two is laughable. Tell me how following and keeping pace with a zig-zagging electronic signal through corridors is "bum-rushing?"
Super-speed thought was a criticism others have had. I posted that to cut off any argument that Surfer may be able to move at super-speed, but cannot react properly against super-speed because he simply can't process information that fast.
Originally posted by fangirl101But that time frame isn't the time frame that Surfer has to twist his body around and fire off a blast, is it?
You misunderstand the premise behind teleportation. It's obvious that the surfer is tracking the energy signature of the TPorter. And teleportation ONCE ACTIVATED is instant. But What of the time inbetween actual porting and activation?
Originally posted by ultimatethor
What are the few types of energies that superman has absorbed that are NOt sunlight related? No precedent for that sort of moves exists at all. superman is not an energy manipulator or even close to it. Thats just ridiculous.Superman specifically stated against triumph that draining the energy from his cells wud kill him so cud u lease show where superman resists that same energy being drained by an SS level manipulator.
The ratio of low showings in his depowered days in comparison to those in his powered up days is not even comparable. He had far more low showings in his days on earth than he has had since. that is plainly obvious.. While on earth, surfer refers to himself not being as powerful as he once was. This is corroborated by the fact that when he is freed, surfer is consistently portrayed as being more powerful than he as while on earth, displaying higher levels of durability energy manipulation and so on. So therefore the feats u seem to enjoy bringin up can be nothin more than LOW feats which are not what we judge a character by according to forum rules.
And no it seems u havent looked at the scans. If u did u wud notice that Ss was not just bum rushing the ships. A person moving a non linear manner in multiple directions while intiating multiple attacks in multiple directions against multiple moving opponents and destroying those opponents before they can react is NOT a bull rush. Pls show me a scan of a gl doing similar
Originally posted by fangirl101
I've been a fan of Nova's for years. And he's fast. But I've never seen him actually fight at Superspeed. Just travel or Bullrush.
What's more, he's one of the few Marvel characters who's actually shown "DC style" super speed in the accomplishing of mundane tasks...
Originally posted by fangirl101
I must correct you. Superman has drained other types of energies. And using Imp amped triumph isn't a good measure of Surfer's abilities. Triumph was amped by 5d magic and had powers to which there weren't even names for. Plus he was stronger than superman. So he could hold on and force superman to stay in contact with him.
Please bring up scans or forget it. Powers like enery absorption? Hmm there seems to be a name for that one. Surfer has it btw.And y wud surfer need to stay in contact with supes?
Originally posted by fangirl101All he did was suck his solar energy from his cells. That's it. And Surfer doesn't even need to touch someone to absorb their energy.
I must correct you. Superman has drained other types of energies. And using Imp amped triumph isn't a good measure of Surfer's abilities. Triumph was amped by 5d magic and had powers to which there weren't even names for. Plus he was stronger than superman. So he could hold on and force superman to stay in contact with him.
Originally posted by darthgooberThat'll slap the taste out of a few people's mouth. It sure did mine. 😱
Well he has...What's more, he's one of the few Marvel characters who's actually shown "DC style" super speed in the accomplishing of mundane tasks...
