Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I'm making the claim that Surfer, who has control over the electromagnetic spectrum, can easily drain Superman and provided and example of it working. Other posters are making the claim that he can't. Where the hell is their evidence? There has to be multiple attempts as this sort of draining or else, this IS the average and it's 100%. The burden is on the posters claiming this nonsense about him having control over his energy to prevent this kind of draining.

It's not about whether Surfer can or cannot do it. It's about whether it will be enough to win, because no way will it be easy. Surfer might be able to drain him, but the problem is that as an argument, it has plenty of evidence to refute it considering how many people have tried it before and have failed to beat Superman while doing it.

Saying "but they're not Surfer" is ignorant at best, and disingenuous at worst.

And this is even assuming that Surfer would use this tactic in the first place. Hell, it's assuming that Surfer would even know to use it.

also, just so you know, something isn't nonsense just because you don't like it. you don't get to decide what the average is.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's not about whether Surfer can or cannot do it. It's about whether it will be enough to win, because no way will it be easy. Surfer might be able to drain him, but the problem is that as an argument, it has plenty of evidence to refute it considering how many people have tried it before and have failed to beat Superman while doing it.

Saying "but they're not Surfer" is ignorant at best, and disingenuous at worst.

And this is even assuming that Surfer would use this tactic in the first place. Hell, it's assuming that Surfer would even know to use it.

also, just so you know, something isn't nonsense just because you don't like it. you don't get to decide what the average is.

So who gets to decide, you? You arent saying anything new nor are you making the same defenses others are. You are attempting to move the goalpost because you don't have solid counter. Yes, it is about Surfers ability and willingness to do it just like he did Hulk. That's cannon support for my position. What, do anti Superman winning examples not count?

Again, show me examples of THIS type of draining not working. Am I supposed to take your word or do you have other examples?

Oh, and before you get things twisted, this is ONE way Surfer can beat Superman. not the only way.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman is not immune to Kryptonite or Red Sun Radiation.

That train of thought was exactly what I was talking about before. Neither of these characters are unbeatable, but the people arguing for them seem to make believe the neither has been beaten before. It's really ridiculous at times to read what either side has to say about their favorite here. In the end, the character with the strongest will of these two would win the majority, because both have monstrous abilities. It's gotten to the point that people are even willing to make sock accounts to vote in order to make the polls more even. SMH.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
So who gets to decide, you? You arent saying anything new nor are you making the same defenses others are. You are attempting to move the goalpost because you don't have solid counter. Yes, it is about Surfers ability and willingness to do it just like he did Hulk. That's cannon support for my position. What, do anti Superman winning examples not count?

Again, show me examples of THIS type of draining not working. Am I supposed to take your word or do you have other examples?

Oh, and before you get things twisted, this is ONE way Surfer can beat Superman. not the only way.

Usually, yes. In this instance, no, because averages are collected from numerous sources, not one that you misrepresent to suit your own needs. Triumph is a REALLY bad example to use.

I haven't shifted any goalposts.

You want examples of Superman beating people that try to drain/sap him of his powers? Luthor, Ruin, Parasite to name three.

Nobody is arguing that it's the only way.

Originally posted by Stoic
That train of thought was exactly what I was talking about before. Neither of these characters are unbeatable, but the people arguing for them seem to make believe the neither has been beaten before. It's really ridiculous at times to read what either side has to say about their favorite here. In the end, the character with the strongest will of these two would win the majority, because both have monstrous abilities. It's gotten to the point that people are even willing to make sock accounts to vote in order to make the polls more even. SMH.

thankfully few people look at polls as being at all valid.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Usually, yes. In this instance, no, because averages are collected from numerous sources, not one that you misrepresent to suit your own needs. Triumph is a REALLY bad example to use.

I haven't shifted any goalposts.

You want examples of Superman beating people that try to drain/sap him of his powers? Luthor, Ruin, Parasite to name three.

Nobody is arguing that it's the only way.

thankfully few people look at polls as being at all valid.

Misinterpreted? I didnt interpret anything, I posted a scan and asked you what was happening in it!
The only reason Triumph is a bad example is because he's the character who's powers most closely mirror Surfers and thus you aren't willing time concede the point. You tell me we go by averages in a scolding tone with a few backhanded insults, yet you have proven me right with your about face. You. Have. Nothing. No examples, no coherant argument, no consistency or fairness. Parasite doesn't drain the same way which is why I didn't use him as my example, but to act as if he isn't successful at draining Superman is comical and desperate on many levels.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Misinterpreted? I didnt interpret anything, I posted a scan and asked you what was happening in it!
The only reason Triumph is a bad example is because he's the character who's powers most closely mirror Surfers and thus you aren't willing time concede the point. You tell me we go by averages in a scolding tone with a few backhanded insults, yet you have proven me right with your about face. You. Have. Nothing. No examples, no coherant argument, no consistency or fairness. Parasite doesn't drain the same way which is why I didn't use him as my example, but to act as if he isn't successful at draining Superman is comical and desperate on many levels.

Did you even read my post?

Triumph (as pointed out by Rao first, in fact) was amped by a 5D Imp. So no, it's not a good example.

You accuse me of throwing insults your way yet you constantly condescend while refusing to acknowledge Superman's feats. Deflecting from having little to no argument to back up your point isn't going to save you face.

Just because Parasite doesn't drain his powers the same way doesn't mean his powers aren't being drained.

The thing is, you could make an argument for why Surfer could drain Superman. TBH, you're just not doing a good job of it, imo.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
You provide an example of a being [b]magically powered by a 5d imp

You know 5d imps >> Galactus right?

Is Silver Sufer powered by magic on that level? [/B]

That's not exactly true.

LKZ gave Triumph three wishes. The only thing Triumph wished for was to get his old powers back, and a better hair cut. Nothing more, nothing less.

Everything Triumph accomplished during Crisis Times Five was with his old powers. Saying LKZ was actively powering Triumph is misleading when LKZ simply granted his old powers back.

Originally posted by One-Punch
That's not exactly true.

LKZ gave Triumph three wishes. The only thing Triumph wished for was to get his old powers back, and a better hair cut. Nothing more, nothing less.

Everything Triumph accomplished during Crisis Times Five was with his old powers. Saying LKZ was actively powering Triumph is misleading when LKZ simply granted his old powers back.

Huh. Could have sworn he was amped.

A good argument is that he has control over the electromagnetic spectrum. Also, he could bombard him with Red sun rays.

Triumph being powered by a 5D imp doesn't seem to have anything to do with the scene. He wasn't bending reality, he was draining him and Superman wasn't resisting it. Funny how you called it a legit example at first, now its of limits with no proof. The truth is you didn't know.

As far as parasite, are you making the claim that Superman has successfully resisted him MORE than he's been unsuccessful, because that's not my understanding. Finally, don't call me ignorant and ingenious and then lecture me about being condescending.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Huh. Could have sworn he was amped.

I re-read the whole thing just to check, I don't see anything about an amp. Someone else is welcome to post it if I missed it. The scene I posted was basically the only interaction LKZ has with Triumph.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
A good argument is that he has control over the electromagnetic spectrum. Also, he could bombard him with Red sun rays.

Triumph being powered by a 5D imp doesn't seem to have anything to do with the scene. He wasn't bending reality, he was draining him and Superman wasn't resisting it. Funny how you called it a legit example at first, now its of limits with no proof. The truth is you didn't know.

As far as parasite, are you making the claim that Superman has successfully resisted him MORE than he's been unsuccessful, because that's not my understanding. Finally, don't call me ignorant and ingenious and then lecture me about being condescending.

He could bombard him with red sun rays, you're right.

I never said it was off limits, and that still applies even with the revelation that he wasn't amped. I said it wasn't the average, which it isn't. BIG difference.

I didn't say Superman had resisted draining by Parasite more than he'd been drained by him. But please, twist more of my words.

I didn't call you either of those. I certainly never used the word ingenious. You started with insults well before I did, you know.

Originally posted by One-Punch
I re-read the whole thing just to check, I don't see anything about an amp. Someone else is welcome to post it if I missed it. The scene I posted was basically the only interaction LKZ has with Triumph.

i'll admit, it's been a while since I read it.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Huh. Could have sworn he was amped.

Wow, good thing you didn't blindly side with Rao and not research the claim for your self. Your bias popped out.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Wow, good thing you didn't blindly side with Rao and not research the claim for your self. Your bias popped out.

What bias? That he reminded me of a comic i'd read years ago, where he did interact with a 5D Imp?

No, it couldn't possibly be an honest mistake, could it.

I trust Rao more than you, so there is that too.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He could bombard him with red sun rays, you're right.

I never said it was off limits, and that still applies even with the revelation that he wasn't amped. I said it wasn't the average, which it isn't. BIG difference.

I didn't say Superman had resisted draining by Parasite more than he'd been drained by him. But please, twist more of my words.

I didn't call you either of those. I certainly never used the word ingenious. You started with insults well before I did, you know.

i'll admit, it's been a while since I read it.

Well Parasite is irrelevant. Now that reality has set in in the for of One Punch, why are you still talking about an average when only one example of electromagnetic draining has been put on the table?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Well Parasite is irrelevant. Now that reality has set in in the for of One Punch, why are you still talking about an average when only one example of electromagnetic draining has been put on the table?

Because one showing, by the literal meaning of the number, can't be an average.

Parasite doesn't become irrelevant just because you want him to be. It's experience with being drained, which is the method you're talking about.

How does Surfer drain Superman in a way that is completely different from any that he's experienced before?

Originally posted by -Pr-
What bias? That he reminded me of a comic i'd read years ago, where he did interact with a 5D Imp?

No, it couldn't possibly be an honest mistake, could it.

I trust Rao more than you, so there is that too.

That sounds great. The problem with your ruse is that if you had really confused the story, you wouldnt have acknowledged the example as legit in your first response. You would have brought up an imp upgrade from the beginning. All you did was join with Rao and cross your fingers. So what now? Any reason why Surfer, a superior character, couldn't or wouldn't do the same?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That sounds great. The problem with your ruse is that if you had really confused the story, you wouldnt have acknowledged the example as legit in your first response. You would have brought up an imp upgrade from the beginning. All you did was join with Rao and cross your fingers. So what now? Any reason why Surfer, a superior character, couldn't or wouldn't do the same?

Oh jesus... Conspiracy theories? Really?

I didn't even remember that an Imp had been in that comic until Rao brought it up. I thought it was just another enemy draining Superman's energy. Which is what, funnily enough, it turned out to be.

Again, you miss the point. I never said Surfer couldn't drain Superman at all. What I said, was that it wasn't a sure-fire way to win. But I'm sure you'll pretend I didn't and talk about more ruses and such.

Remember... TRUST NO ONE!

Lol Blue you're too defensive with Pr. He's not pulling a ruse or being misleading. He's a pretty genuine and reasonable poster. Can't say that for some other Superman fans though.

Honestly Blue, I'm just ****ing with you. If you find it that offensive, then my bad.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Because one showing, by the literal meaning of the number, can't be an average.

Parasite doesn't become irrelevant just because you want him to be. It's experience with being drained, which is the method you're talking about.

How does Surfer drain Superman in a way that is completely different from any that he's experienced before?

It's not that I don't want him to be, it's that he's irrelevant to the question of whether or not Surfer could drain Superman because he doesn't drain in the same manner and I'm saying this for the third time. I don't even know why you think this is helping your argument when Parasite has had great success draining Superman. Triumph drained using the electromagnetic spectrum and Superman was helpless to stop him. Since Surfer has a history of draining opponents and he has the same control over the electromagnetic spectrum, logically, he could successfully drain Superman in a similar fashion. What's so hard to understand about this simple concept? I'm sorry you don't like the logical conclusion.

As far as your desire to cite an average, there is no average without more than a single exampk, but it doesn't negated the fact that the best information we have based on the example I provided is 100% in my favor. Surfer has too many ways to beat Superman and I give him 8/10 wins.