Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
As far as the last part of my post, I did go back and reread the thread and I did mischaracterize your position and I have no problem admitting that. My apologies for that. You don't question whether he would per say, you question IF he could. Having said that, I don't know why you would question why Surfer could when the one character that presents a similar means of draining Superman had little problem doing so. Surfer can't drain Superman by biological means in the manner Parasite can, so his success rate is totally irrelevant. Surfer can drain him.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
As far as the last part of my post, I did go back and reread the thread and I did mischaracterize your position and I have no problem admitting that. My apologies for that. You don't question whether he would per say, you question IF he could. Having said that, I don't know why you would question why Surfer could when the one character that presents a similar means of draining Superman had little problem doing so. Surfer can't drain Superman by biological means in the manner Parasite can, so his success rate is totally irrelevant. Surfer can drain him.

I appreciate you going back and reading, but you're still not understanding where I'm coming from. If it's an accident rather than on purpose, then fair enough.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Even a sun eater couldn't drain Superman. You think Surfer is better drainer than a sun eater?

I don't know much about Sun Eater.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I appreciate you going back and reading, but you're still not understanding where I'm coming from. If it's an accident rather than on purpose, then fair enough.

You are right, I don't. I understand you think it wouldn't be easy based on his overall record of resisting draining and I find that illogical. Not only have you (or anyone else) established his record or average against draining, you make no distinction as to the various types of draining he has encountered which is relevant to the debate. It seems you are unwilling to do that and that's unfortunate.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Pathetic. The scans show nothing of the sort. You must be imagining dialogue the isn't there.

You mean like imagining Triumph asking for his "old power"?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Being restored, getting his old powers back

Wait, wait, is that your OWN cooking? Where it says "being restored" or getting his "OLD" power back? stop putting things on the comic.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
and being Triumph again is a game of semantics on your part.

"Linguistic semantics is the study of meaning that is used for understanding human expression through language"

He asked for being Triumph again plain and simple, not for his "old power" or "being restored"

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
He was not made to be a magical being as a result. If he's a magical being, then provide proof.

You are trying to put words on my argument or you simply cannot understand it. Triumph in being MAGICALLY powered by a 5D imp. AS SHOWN ON PANEL.

I will have to grab you by the hand so you don't get lost on this one

If Metron grants power to X character, since He is a science based being, the power granted is science based in nature

If the wizard Shazam grants the SAME power to X character, since he is a magical being the power granted is magical in nature.

Triumph's power was restored by a 5d Imp so you do the math.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
The Doomsday is actually a magical construct and is a different animal. In the Triumph story, there is no indication whatsoever that Triumph is effecting Superman due to magic. If he was, then where is the similar dialogue from Superman? There is none.

There is a HUGE indication that the whole ARC has magic involved all over the place btw.

You will have a point if Triumph wasn't powered back by a 5D Imp and if Triumph wasn't one shooting Hourman, which just by itself puts him on a power level above Surfer.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
You two are two of three completely blind, fanatical Superman fans on the board who see want you want in threads. Don't expect others to experience the same hallucinations.

Stop crying and keep debating like an adult.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And Triumph oneshotted Hourman one million with Worloggog in the previous comic.

http://imgur.com/MA3kgMe
http://imgur.com/9UVTVBf

What a weakling!!!

mmm

Of course you would leave out the part where Hourman says Triumph is invisible to his time senses, and how he can't attack Triumph directly.

So did you leave this part out on purpose, or were you genuinely ignorant?

Wow reading incomprehension for the loss here. How in god's green earth was Triumph specifically amped due to lkz making him what he once was? It's like saying Thor was amped by Celestials all these years after Arishem had his replicoid make Mjolnir "whole again". This was the time Thor channeled so much of his life force through Mjolnir it shattered. Please lord... Somebody sane represent this character in these boards.

PR doesn't count since he's a mod.
😏

Originally posted by One-Punch
Of course you would leave out the part where Hourman says Triumph is invisible to his time senses, and how he can't attack Triumph directly.

So did you leave this part out on purpose, or were you genuinely ignorant?

That does not justify being so easily dispatched by Triumph, Does it?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wow reading incomprehension for the loss here. How in god's green earth was Triumph specifically amped due to lkz making him what he once was? It's like saying Thor was amped by Celestials all these years after Arishem had his replicoid make Mjolnir "whole again". This was the time Thor channeled so much of his life force through Mjolnir it shattered. Please lord... Somebody sane represent this character in these boards.

PR doesn't count since he's a mod.
😏

Please stop putting words on the argument, I haven't said not even once that He was "amped"

Originally posted by Rao Kal El

Please stop putting words on the argument, I haven't said not even once that He was "amped"

How is Billy asking to be Triumph AGAIN, give him a "magical advantage" against beings like Superman as opposed to just being you know... Triumph again..

Unless that was him disguised as the other Billy two-piecing Superman in the same arc with the aid of being magically powered(specifically referenced), I don't see how one can claim he has that advantage.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I will stick to my statement as entirely true

It is, you will see.

lets stop here, Billy Mac Did NOT ask for his "OLD" power back, he asked to be "Triumph again" and a better hair cut. I do not know where did you get that he asked for his "old powers" back

Look at your own scans and that is what it is stated on them

Billy Mac was a powerless regular human. He use to have electromagnetic based powers and go by the name Triumph. Billy wishing to be Triumph again means he's wished for LKZ to restore his old powers back. You're getting hung up over trivial semantics, it's pretty straightforward.

I never said Triumph was "amped" by a 5th dimensional imp, I said Triumph was MAGICALLY POWERED BY A 5TH DIMENSIONAL IMP, now as Abhi just showed Magically powered beings are inherently more dangerous to Superman

But it's clear from the scans Triumph wasn't being actively powered by Lkz. The only thing Lkz did was grant Triumph's powers back, and nothing more. They NEVER interacted after that.

Triumph's power was magically restored by Lkz, it wasn't his "old power" as He just asked to be Triumph again.

Just like the Doomsday being shown by Abhi it was just as strong as Doomsday but powered by magic made it more dangerous to Superman and like this example there are others in which it can be seen how magically powered items are more dangerous to Superman especially if they are 5d powered to which he has amos no defences against. [/B]

Not everything a 5-D Imp touches becomes inherently magical.

When Triumph got his powers back, they were the same powers he had in the past, which is what he wished for. In fact Steel says Triumph's powers are "electromagnetic by nature" after analyzing him:

Here are the facts:
- Steel says Triumph's powers are electromagnetic based
- The only thing Lkz did was grant Triumph his powers back and nothing more
- When Superman fought Triumph he never mentioned anything about magic, nor did he show vulnerability to it the way he did to Cap Marvel's punches in the same arc
- When Triumph was describing his powers he never once mentioned magic
- None of the other heroes or characters who engaged with Triumph said his powers were magic based.

The evidence is pretty heavily stacked against you.

Now let me ask you a question. Since you think anytime an 5-D Imp "restores" a character with their power, that character becomes powered by magic. In this story, Wild Cat and Plastic Man were both killed. Yz uses his power to "restore" their lives, as well as all the other lives killed in the event.

Are Wild Cat and Plastic Man (and all the humans who died) now powered by magic now since they were restored by 5-d magic?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Ok semantics aside...

How is Billy asking to be Triumph AGAIN, give him a "magical advantage" against beings like Superman as opposed to just being you know... Triumph again..

If Metron grants power to X character, since He is a science based being, the power granted is science based in nature

If the wizard Shazam grants the SAME power to X character, since he is a magical being the power granted is magical in nature.

Triumph's power was restored by a 5d Imp so you do the math.

The scan in question will be valid IF two things were not present

One the panel display of Triumph easily dispatching Hourman which implies a power output higher than normal unless you car to explain how is it that Triumph one shooted Hourman when his inhability to see him with his time senses does not makes him more prone or suceptible to Triumph's attack.

Second the panel display of Triumph being magically powered by a 5d imp.

Please elaborate on how this is hapening

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Wow reading incomprehension for the loss here. How in god's green earth was Triumph specifically amped due to lkz making him what he once was? It's like saying Thor was amped by Celestials all these years after Arishem had his replicoid make Mjolnir "whole again". This was the time Thor channeled so much of his life force through Mjolnir it shattered. Please lord... Somebody sane represent this character in these boards.

PR doesn't count since he's a mod.
😏

Lack of reading comprehension is a pretty consistent theme with certain Superman fans.

Except for PR.

😇

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
That does not justify being so easily dispatched by Triumph, Does it?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Ok semantics aside...

How is Billy asking to be Triumph AGAIN, give him a "magical advantage" against beings like Superman as opposed to just being you know... Triumph again..

Unless that was him disguised as the other Billy two-piecing Superman in the same arc with the aid of being magically powered(specifically referenced), I don't see how one can claim he has that advantage.

Exactly.

When Captain Marvel knocked Superman out in the same arc, he specifically referenced magic.

When Triumph fought Superman, he didn't show the same vulnerability and there was no reference to magic.

To top it all off, Steele analyzes Triumph and states his powers were "electromagnetically based," NOT magical.

This makes perfect sense because as you said, Triumph ONLY wished for his powers back and nothing more.

There are no statements or narration from anybody that suggest Triumph was being powered by magic.

Originally posted by One-Punch
If you read the scans, Triumph only wished for his powers back (and better hair), nothing more, nothing less.

Billy Mac was a powerless regular human. He use to have electromagnetic based powers and go by the name Triumph. Billy wishing to be Triumph again means he's wished for LKZ to restore his old powers back. You're getting hung up over trivial semantics, it's pretty straightforward.

I never claimed you said Triumph was amped.

But it's clear from the scans Triumph wasn't being actively powered by Lkz. The only thing Lkz did was grant Triumph's powers back, and nothing more. They NEVER interacted after that.

Not everything a 5-D Imp touches becomes inherently magical.

When Triumph got his powers back, they were the same powers he had in the past, which is what he wished for. In fact Steel says Triumph's powers are "[b]electromagnetic by nature" after analyzing him:

Here are the facts:
- Steel says Triumph's powers are electromagnetic based
- The only thing Lkz did was grant Triumph his powers back and nothing more
- When Superman fought Triumph he never mentioned anything about magic, nor did he show vulnerability to it the way he did to Cap Marvel's punches in the same arc
- When Triumph was describing his powers he never once mentioned magic
- None of the other heroes or characters who engaged with Triumph said his powers were magic based.

The evidence is pretty heavily stacked against you.

Now let me ask you a question. Since you think anytime an 5-D Imp "restores" a character with their power, that character becomes powered by magic. In this story, Wild Cat and Plastic Man were both killed. Yz uses his power to "restore" their lives, as well as all the other lives killed in the event.

Are Wild Cat and Plastic Man (and all the humans who died) now powered by magic now since they were restored by 5-d magic? [/B]

You actually made very good points , however there are a few things you might not be aware of 5D imp magic

First off Wildcat was not revived by 5d imp magic, he has that power of his own on whihc he can die 9 times.

Second plastic man was restored to his molecular self thanks to the two flashes, so I don't know where are you getting this thing of plastic man or wild cat being brought back to life by the imps.

The people who died just died on that arc when a 5D imp leaves this plane things affected by their power return to normal, like buildings people who dies usually stay dead.

But on DC it usually means if you are magic granted something it usually sticks with you.

For example the red k that Myx gave to luthor, by all scans and studies the rock was nothing but a red glowing rock, yet with out any type of radiation it affected Superman's powers.

Originally posted by One-Punch
But the story made clear that Triumph was a time anomaly, which messed up Hourman's powers just by being near him. On top of that Hourman says he can't attack Triumph directly because of this time anomaly business. Based on all these factors, of course Triumph would beat Hour man easily.

His offensive powers not his defensive ones, how is it justified that Triumph made short work of Hourman a character consider by many above top tier

Originally posted by One-Punch
Exactly.

When Captain Marvel knocked Superman out in the same arc, he specifically referenced magic.

When Triumph fought Superman, he didn't show the same vulnerability and there was no reference to magic.

To top it all off, Steele analyzes Triumph and states his powers were "electromagnetically based," NOT magical.

This makes perfect sense because as you said, Triumph ONLY wished for his powers back and nothing more.

There are no statements or narration from anybody that suggest Triumph was being powered by magic.

Magic is referenced in a story that it directly exploits his lack of resistance to it.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
You actually made very good points , however there are a few things you might not be aware of 5D imp magic

First off Wildcat was not revived by 5d imp magic, he has that power of his own on whihc he can die 9 times.

Second plastic man was restored to his molecular self thanks to the two flashes, so I don't know where are you getting this thing of plastic man or wild cat being brought back to life by the imps.

Actually, it was YZ who restored Wild Cat and Plastic Man.

See the scan below:

Yz says... "Hell of a day huh? Thought I would stick around...Maybe do something for all the people QSWP and LKZ messed up"

Right after that, Wild Cat (and Plastic Man later) spontaneously come back to life. The Flashes did help Plastic Man, but based on the scan above, I think YZ helped.

The people who died just died on that arc when a 5D imp leaves this plane things affected by their power return to normal, like buildings people who dies usually stay dead.

But on DC it usually means if you are magic granted something it usually sticks with you.

For example the red k that Myx gave to luthor, by all scans and studies the rock was nothing but a red glowing rock, yet with out any type of radiation it affected Superman's powers.

But I've already listed why Triumph wasn't powered by magic:
- Steel says Triumph's powers are electromagnetic based, not magic
- Superman didn't show vulnerability or reference magic when he fought Triumph
- Triumph never mentions his powers being magic
- No other character or narration says his powers are powered by magic.
- Triumph could've wish for anything, but he ONLY wished for his powers back and nothing else (besides better hair).

If you find one statement that says Triumph is powered by magic, I'll immediately reverse my position. But there isn't any though.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
If Metron grants power to X character, since He is a science based being, the power granted is science based in nature

If the wizard Shazam grants the SAME power to X character, since he is a magical being the power granted is magical in nature.

Triumph's power was restored by a 5d Imp so you do the math.

The scan in question will be valid IF two things were not present

One the panel display of Triumph easily dispatching Hourman which implies a power output higher than normal unless you car to explain how is it that Triumph one shooted Hourman when his inhability to see him with his time senses does not makes him more prone or suceptible to Triumph's attack.

Second the panel display of Triumph being magically powered by a 5d imp.

Please elaborate on how this is hapening

Also would like to reiterate my earlier parallel. No one is saying Mjolnir from the time it was "made whole again" by Arishem through his replicoid that it benefited from celestial energy as well as Odin force. No proof of it whatsoever. If that was the case every time Thor performed a high end feat, it can be automatically referenced that it was the beneficiary of celestial powers as well. Do you know how dumb that is?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
His offensive powers not his defensive ones, how is it justified that Triumph made short work of Hourman a character consider by many above top tier