Originally posted by darthgoober
For those saying that transmutation isn't an option in this fight, I was wondering if this would qualify as an example of transmutation against a herald level character...I'm not positive what Surfer did there, but it seems a lot like transmutation to me.
He imprisoned his essence inside the Surfboard.
Same as Green Lanterns have done, imprisoning an enemy within their ring.
Originally posted by Soljer
He imprisoned his essence inside the Surfboard.Same as Green Lanterns have done, imprisoning an enemy within their ring.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey if we go COMPLETELY by averages, then Supes speed and reflexes aren't all they're cracked up to be either. Supes biggest showings of speed are pretty much all traveling speed, and Surfer's trumps him in that category. The only person I can think of that Surfer's had difficulty with just because of speed was the Runner(though I may be over looking someone I'll admit), and that's not really an indication of speed being a problem for him.And you never answered who's the fastest being Supes has blitzed before.
True, but do you really buy into this whole “nano second” reflexes crap people bring up for him in almost every battle? I showed the scan, and it didn’t appear to be anything like most people would have you believe on this forum. 😬 The ambiguity of the feats people use for Norrin in battles is starting to become a little tedious and frustrating, imo.
And as for your question… he’s done so many speedblitzes, it’s hard to keep track of them. Off the top of my head, I’d say Hank Henshaw, but there could be others faster that he speedblitzed.
Originally posted by darthgoober
But Surfer's jump started a dying star(to the extent it would last another 1000 years in fact), BEFORE Galactus removed the mental blocks that limited his power. That combined with Surfer's creation of a black hole leads me to believe that the creation of a red sun is entirely within his power.
And since this is pretty much a strait up fight, I don't think Norrin will be "ambushed" by any stretch of the imagination.
A thousand years compared to the life span of most stars is relatively miniscule, to be honest. Still impressive, but nonetheless it doesn’t make me believe that SS could casually create a star mid-battle.
And if Surfer has to create an entire STAR just to beat Superman… then he’s in trouble. 😂
Superman has something much simpler than that and just as affective… heat vision.
Most people around here consider Clark’s heat vision pretty weak… but it’s not. It’s deflected the Omega Effect before, and has severed The General’s limbs before (which is pretty damn impressive since The General has taken a full blast from the astro force without even saying “boo”).
Here’s a scan of it:
http://img451.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsthegeneralah5.jpg
Originally posted by darthgoober
Here you've got me stumped, because my knowledge of current Supes is pretty much limited to what I find out here on KMC. The last instance I have of his being severely effected by it though is from JLA/Avengers, and that was a while back. So it's entirely possible that it's become a relatively small hindrance to him(like purely physical attacks are to Surfer in fact). But I would like to point out, that Supes was pretty much powerless after the SBP ordeal when he took SBP out(though that was from a combination of red sun and K-nite I'll admit).
Most people don’t realize just how resistant to it Superman is. 🙂
Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh I wasn't referring to your calling it an instant win, I was talking mostly of certain other members who consider it to be just that *coughJessecough*. I was just pointing out that reality manipulation has about the same track record against Norrin as red sun has against Supes(less in fact, I believe Surfer's overcome it on his own every time he had to face it).
Most of the stuff Jesse says is nonsense, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
However, Superman’s track record with T-Vo is 5-0 against extremely uber opponents. 🙂
Originally posted by Soljer
and durability advantages
Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that the Surfer is more durable than Supes?
Originally posted by darthgoober
Well if he actually blitzes at about the speed of sound, then I think it's safe to say that Surfer should be able to handle his speed without to much difficulty.
The man’s reflexes are such that he can see lightning travel in slow motion, and he can casually travel WAY beyond the speed of light without too much trouble. You ever think that maybe he doesn’t WANT to speedblitz opponents like that out of fear that he’ll kill them if he does?
He EASILY has the capacity to speedblitz at over light speed.
Originally posted by batdude123
True, but do you really buy into this whole “nano second” reflexes crap people bring up for him in almost every battle? I showed the scan, and it didn’t appear to be anything like most people would have you believe on this forum. 😬 The ambiguity of the feats people use for Norrin in battles is starting to become a little tedious and frustrating, imo.And as for your question… he’s done so many speedblitzes, it’s hard to keep track of them. Off the top of my head, I’d say Hank Henshaw, but there could be others faster that he speedblitzed.
Originally posted by batdude123
A thousand years compared to the life span of most stars is relatively miniscule, to be honest. Still impressive, but nonetheless it doesn’t make me believe that SS could casually create a star mid-battle.And if Surfer has to create an entire STAR just to beat Superman… then he’s in trouble. 😂
Superman has something much simpler than that and just as affective… heat vision.
Most people around here consider Clark’s heat vision pretty weak… but it’s not. It’s deflected the Omega Effect before, and has severed The General’s limbs before (which is pretty damn impressive since The General has taken a full blast from the astro force without even saying “boo”).
Here’s a scan of it:
http://img451.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanvsthegeneralah5.jpg
I never said that Surfer HAD to create a star to beat Supes, I said it was an option to increase the odds of his winning(by the same token, Supes doesn't HAVE to use T-Vo to beat Sentry, but it would help a lot if he did). And considering Surfer's recently matched Thanos's power output I think he's got a great chance even without doing that without having to create a mini red sun(and it wouldn't have to last 1000 years either I'm betting).
And while Supes heat vision IS impressive, I honestly don't see it doing much(if any) damage to Surfer, who's all but immune to actual heat.
Originally posted by batdude123
Most of the stuff Jesse says is nonsense, and shouldn’t be taken seriously.However, Superman’s track record with T-Vo is 5-0 against extremely uber opponents. 🙂
Originally posted by batdude123
The man’s reflexes are such that he can see lightning travel in slow motion, and he can casually travel WAY beyond the speed of light without too much trouble. You ever think that maybe he doesn’t WANT to speedblitz opponents like that out of fear that he’ll kill them if he does?He EASILY has the capacity to speedblitz at over light speed.
Originally posted by darthgoober
That depends on what you mean exactly. I probably don't put as much stock into it as many around here do, but I do buy it to the extent that I don't see Surfer having a problem coping against someone just because of super speed(including Supes). The only real instance of Surfer being unable to deal with the speed of an opponent was against the Runner, and Surfer was also under the effect of Runner's "likable" power which made him incapable of going all out(plus Surfer's steadily gotten stronger over the years, and has more in the way of speed feats since then). But the speed of Surfer's mental thought process is not confined solely to the scan you provided(though that is the one that's passed around the most), it's also demonstrated to some degree here...
He conducted a thorough search of the entire planet before Strange could finish two sentences, in my mind that puts his mental speed WAY up there.
I never said that Surfer would have a problem with Superman’s speed per say, I merely stated that Superman’s speed is such that he can make the majority of Norrin’s exotic powers void. That’s a fair statement.
And as for the scan, yeah, I’ve seen it before. However, the majority of that feat was done off panel. Norrin’s power cosmic can basically do anything. We don’t know if that was a reflex feat, because quite frankly there’s nothing to go off of from that instance. It’s just more ambiguity on the side of the Surfer fans. He could’ve programmed the board to search the planet for him. That would be more likely, considering his reflexes are never shown to be at that level.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I never said that Surfer HAD to create a star to beat Supes, I said it was an option to increase the odds of his winning(by the same token, Supes doesn't HAVE to use T-Vo to beat Sentry, but it would help a lot if he did). And considering Surfer's recently matched Thanos's power output I think he's got a great chance even without doing that without having to create a mini red sun(and it wouldn't have to last 1000 years either I'm betting).And while Supes heat vision IS impressive, I honestly don't see it doing much(if any) damage to Surfer, who's all but immune to actual heat.
Recently Thanos has been portrayed as a punk, so I wouldn’t put too much stock into that being an upgrade. Thanos died of a stab wound by Drax? What the SHIT is that? 🤨
And based upon the evidence I provided you with earlier, a mini red sun would be an annoyance at best. In the recent issue of Action Comics, Superman survived the super nova of a red sun at point blank range. 😉
You know… it’s really easy to just write off Superman’s heat vision as “merely heat” that can’t do anything to top tiers. Wrong. It’s been doing damage to herald levelers and even above herald levelers since forever. Most of the people he’s damaged with it aren’t weak to “heat” either, but it’s a powerful energy blast. Ask Darkseid. So stating that Surfer would shrug it off like nothing when it's at full power is a false statement 🙂
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but I actually can't think of a single reality who's managed to take Surfer out(though I may be overlooking someone so feel free to correct me on that).
This is true, but the caliber of characters Superman has preformed T-Vo on put the Surfer to shame in most cases.
Originally posted by darthgoober
But if he's never actually done it we can't credit him with the ability. By all rights Surfer should be considered to have light speed blitzing capabilities, but we both know that's not the case don't we?
See, this is where the burden of proof on this site becomes unnecessarily laborious. It’s like saying “I’ve never heard you say the word ‘tomato,’ so therefore you can’t say it.”
The same logic could easily be applied to Norrin creating a sun as well.
He has more than enough evidence to suggest that it’s not out of the question. Remember the statement I made about his reflexes making lightning appear to be traveling in slow motion? That wasn’t hyperbole my friend, it’s actually been proven on panel. Not to mention other insane reflex feats. And he’s been shown to travel a light hour in mere moments, suggesting thousands of times faster than light. 😬
Based upon the caliber of opponents Superman has speedblitzed before, it’s definitely not at the mere “Mach 1” people would have you believe. Simply because the artists don’t portray “sonic booms” occurring when Superman speedblitzes doesn’t prove a thing.
