Superman vs Silver surfer

Originally posted by batdude123
I never said that Surfer would have a problem with Superman’s speed per say, I merely stated that Superman’s speed is such that he can make the majority of Norrin’s exotic powers void. That’s a fair statement.

And as for the scan, yeah, I’ve seen it before. However, the majority of that feat was done off panel. Norrin’s power cosmic can basically do anything. We don’t know if that was a reflex feat, because quite frankly there’s nothing to go off of from that instance. It’s just more ambiguity on the side of the Surfer fans. He could’ve programmed the board to search the planet for him. That would be more likely, considering his reflexes are never shown to be at that level.

Recently Thanos has been portrayed as a punk, so I wouldn’t put too much stock into that being an upgrade. Thanos died of a stab wound by Drax? What the [B]SHIT is that? 🤨

And based upon the evidence I provided you with earlier, a mini red sun would be an annoyance at best. In the recent issue of Action Comics, Superman survived the super nova of a red sun at point blank range. 😉

You know… it’s really easy to just write off Superman’s heat vision as “merely heat” that can’t do anything to top tiers. Wrong. It’s been doing damage to herald levelers and even above herald levelers since forever. Most of the people he’s damaged with it aren’t weak to “heat” either, but it’s a powerful energy blast. Ask Darkseid. So stating that Surfer would shrug it off like nothing when it's at full power is a false statement 🙂

This is true, but the caliber of characters Superman has preformed T-Vo on put the Surfer to shame in most cases.

See, this is where the burden of proof on this site becomes unnecessarily laborious. It’s like saying “I’ve never heard you say the word ‘tomato,’ so therefore you can’t say it.”

The same logic could easily be applied to Norrin creating a sun as well.

He has more than enough evidence to suggest that it’s not out of the question. Remember the statement I made about his reflexes making lightning appear to be traveling in slow motion? That wasn’t hyperbole my friend, it’s actually been proven on panel. Not to mention other insane reflex feats. And he’s been shown to travel a light hour in mere moments, suggesting thousands of times faster than light. 😬

Based upon the caliber of opponents Superman has speedblitzed before, it’s definitely not at the mere “Mach 1” people would have you believe. Simply because the artists don’t portray “sonic booms” occurring when Superman speedblitzes doesn’t prove a thing. [/B]

Alright Batdude, since some of this relates to me.

Firstly, in the recent issue of Action, he didn't survive a redsun supernova at point blank range.

A supernova occurred, he tried to escape, was about to be vaporized by the radiation, then Pa showed up and he was saved.

Nice feat of him taking the red sun blasts at pointblank range, but he didn't take a supernova. He was saved.

Now, about the Mach1 speedblitz thing.

Whenever people bring up Superman on the forum, they normally say something like, can Surfer/Thor/BRB/Thanos/Hulk/Genis/Sentry/whoever survive a million punches at lightspeed.

I've never seen Superman pull off a speedblitz at lightspeed. I've never seen anything from any character that says they can drop a million punches in one second.

Most of the time, whenever they show Superman speedblitzing, you see multiple images of him in different spots, throwing punches.

I said mach 1, because thats the speed he must've been going at LEAST to create a sonic boom.

He was likely going at mach 50 or somesuch. We don't know.

But i'm not going to attribute some power feat that hasn't been done, to Superman, and the same for Surfer.

Hence you'll never find me saying Surfer has speedblitzed before.

You wanna think he was going shy of lightspeed in most of his blitzes, fine.

Not me.

Originally posted by batdude123
I never said that Surfer would have a problem with Superman’s speed per say, I merely stated that Superman’s speed is such that he can make the majority of Norrin’s exotic powers void. That’s a fair statement.

And as for the scan, yeah, I’ve seen it before. However, the majority of that feat was done off panel. Norrin’s power cosmic can basically do anything. We don’t know if that was a reflex feat, because quite frankly there’s nothing to go off of from that instance. It’s just more ambiguity on the side of the Surfer fans. He could’ve programmed the board to search the planet for him. That would be more likely, considering his reflexes are never shown to be at that level.

But for another instance of super speed for Surfer check this out. Here's Surfer traveling at (FAR)faster than light speeds, but still grabbing for the IG from Thanos...

If Surfers swing had been slower than his movement, he would have overshot Thanos before he'd finished the motion.

Originally posted by batdude123
Recently Thanos has been portrayed as a punk, so I wouldn’t put too much stock into that being an upgrade. Thanos died of a stab wound by Drax? What the [B]SHIT is that? 🤨

And based upon the evidence I provided you with earlier, a mini red sun would be an annoyance at best. In the recent issue of Action Comics, Superman survived the super nova of a red sun at point blank range. 😉

You know… it’s really easy to just write off Superman’s heat vision as “merely heat” that can’t do anything to top tiers. Wrong. It’s been doing damage to herald levelers and even above herald levelers since forever. Most of the people he’s damaged with it aren’t weak to “heat” either, but it’s a powerful energy blast. Ask Darkseid. So stating that Surfer would shrug it off like nothing when it's at full power is a false statement 🙂
[/B]

And I by no means think that Supes heatvision won't hurt herald lever's, I simply question it's effectiveness against Surfer specifically because of his known resistance to heat(plus his outrageous overall durability and capacity to absorb energy). The heat of stars is absolutely NOTHING to Surfer, so it doesn't seem like Supes vision will be all that effective. In JLA/Avengers even Thor(who's less durable than Surfer) was able to walk through Supes heat vision to reach Supes. I'm not saying that it was EASY for Thor, or that it didn't take it's toll, but he WAS able to cope with it and Surfer's durability(and heat resistence) trump's Thor's any day of the week when well written.

Originally posted by batdude123
This is true, but the caliber of characters Superman has preformed T-Vo on put the Surfer to shame in most cases.

Originally posted by batdude123
See, this is where the burden of proof on this site becomes unnecessarily laborious. It’s like saying “I’ve never heard you say the word ‘tomato,’ so therefore you can’t say it.”

The same logic could easily be applied to Norrin creating a sun as well.

He has more than enough evidence to suggest that it’s not out of the question. Remember the statement I made about his reflexes making lightning appear to be traveling in slow motion? That wasn’t hyperbole my friend, it’s actually been proven on panel. Not to mention other insane reflex feats. And he’s been shown to travel a light hour in mere moments, suggesting thousands of times faster than light. 😬

Based upon the caliber of opponents Superman has speedblitzed before, it’s definitely not at the mere “Mach 1” people would have you believe. Simply because the artists don’t portray “sonic booms” occurring when Superman speedblitzes doesn’t prove a thing.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Alright Batdude, since some of this relates to me.

Firstly, in the recent issue of Action, he didn't survive a redsun supernova at point blank range.

A supernova occurred, he tried to escape, was about to be vaporized by the radiation, then Pa showed up and he was saved.

Nice feat of him taking the red sun blasts at pointblank range, but he didn't take a supernova. He was saved.

Now, about the Mach1 speedblitz thing.

Whenever people bring up Superman on the forum, they normally say something like, can Surfer/Thor/BRB/Thanos/Hulk/Genis/Sentry/whoever survive a million punches at lightspeed.

I've never seen Superman pull off a speedblitz at lightspeed. I've never seen anything from any character that says they can drop a million punches in one second.

Most of the time, whenever they show Superman speedblitzing, you see multiple images of him in different spots, throwing punches.

I said mach 1, because thats the speed he must've been going at LEAST to create a sonic boom.

He was likely going at mach 50 or somesuch. We don't know.

But i'm not going to attribute some power feat that hasn't been done, to Superman, and the same for Surfer.

Hence you'll never find me saying Surfer has speedblitzed before.

You wanna think he was going shy of lightspeed in most of his blitzes, fine.

Not me.

That's a pretty fair assessment, however your words in an earlier post gave the impression that Superman speedblitzes at barely over the sound barrier against his opponents.

Otherwise I agree.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes he COULD have done something like program his board to search, but it's pretty clear as to what the writers meant for him to be doing. Think of it like this, if it WASN'T a speed feat, then the joke of the incident wouldn't be nearly as funny(which is why I'm pretty sure the writers meant it as a speed feat).

If the writers meant for a joke to be in there… then I didn’t get it. 😕

That whole feat was done off-panel. My statement is just as justified as yours, because you have nothing to go off of from that scan considering it doesn’t actually show Surfer doing anything.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But for another instance of super speed for Surfer check this out. Here's Surfer traveling at (FAR)faster than light speeds, but still grabbing for the IG from Thanos...

If Surfers swing had been slower than his movement, he would have overshot Thanos before he'd finished the motion.

🤨

This hardly proves anything. First of all, where’d you get the idea that Surfer was traveling “FAR” faster than light in that instance? There’s absolutely NO point of reference for one to come to the conclusion that Surfer was traveling at faster than light speeds there. Second of all, you’re giving me an instance where Surfer was unable to grasp it… so that doesn’t really help your case either.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Drax was only able to take out Thanos because that's what he was made to do(and it was a sucker punch from behind too). That's like saying that Supes was nearly killed by a bullet in the Superman/Batman series, without taking into consideration that it was made from kryptonite.

Fair enough, however current Thanos (pre death) never gave me the impression that he was what he used to be. And to be honest, I’ve never seen anything from Thanos to make me believe that he was out and out more powerful than the Surfer… at least from an energy and versatility stand point. It was his physical superiority to Surfer that allowed him to pwn Norrin.

Originally posted by darthgoober
And I by no means think that Supes heatvision won't hurt herald lever's, I simply question it's effectiveness against Surfer specifically because of his known resistance to heat(plus his outrageous overall durability and capacity to absorb energy). The heat of stars is absolutely NOTHING to Surfer, so it doesn't seem like Supes vision will be all that effective. In JLA/Avengers even Thor(who's less durable than Surfer) was able to walk through Supes heat vision to reach Supes. I'm not saying that it was EASY for Thor, or that it didn't take it's toll, but he WAS able to cope with it and Surfer's durability(and heat resistence) trump's Thor's any day of the week when well written.

Saying Superman’s heat vision compares to the heat of stars is the understatement of the century. Many people even tougher than Surfer have fallen victim to Superman’s heat vision. And using a comic arc that may, or may not have been canon doesn’t do Superman’s heat vision justice because we’ve seen from him FAR more impressive accomplishments. I think his HV would affect Norrin… hell I could even see it doing damage against him if he cuts loose with it. He’s shown some pretty amazing things recently with it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but Surfer DOES have some big feats in his corner also. Not enough to guarantee him a win if Supes uses T-Vo, but enough show that Supes isn't guaranteed a win either.

Yet, it’s worked on opponents that make Surfer look like an unborn fetus.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but most of that could be flipped in favor of the Surfer also. He's had multiple instances where a large degree of non traveling style super speed has been implied, so why nitpick over the details when all evidence points in that direction?

I’m “nitpicking” as you call it because you have yet to show me any concrete evidence to back up your points. They’ve all been ambiguous.

They’re both really powerful, and they are most certainly peers in the herald level category. Surfer is more versatile, but recently Superman has shown some impressive power output that leaves Norrin in the dust. Superman has the creativity with his power set going for him, and the formidability edge. And based on the caliber of characters Superman is raping every issue nowadays, it makes this fight even more interesting.

Anyway you look at it, Surfer is NOT taking eighty percent of the fights here. That’s just not happening.

Originally posted by batdude123
🤨

This hardly proves anything. First of all, where’d you get the idea that Surfer was traveling “FAR” faster than light in that instance? There’s absolutely NO point of reference for one to come to the conclusion that Surfer was traveling at faster than light speeds there. Second of all, you’re giving me an instance where Surfer was unable to grasp it… so that doesn’t really help your case either.

According to my logic... that would take more than a year to accomplish if he wasn't traveling at light speed...

And he did it in about a second, maybe more, but around there.

Originally posted by WorldWarHulk
Thanos lifted his arm.
Warlock told him to go.
Surfer was lightyears away.
Surfer arrived BEFORE Thanos had swung his hand, to break America in half.

According to my logic... that would take more than a year to accomplish if he wasn't traveling at light speed...

And he did it in about a second, maybe more, but around there.

My bad.

However, it's still a travelling speed feat, and he missed the IG as he passed Thanos. After he missed it, he just kept on going.

Originally posted by batdude123
My bad.

However, it's still a travelling speed feat, and he missed the IG as he passed Thanos. After he missed it, he just kept on going.

That's mostly because, if he would have grabbed it, he was planning on keeping it. You know, by flying a f*cking long ways away?
Or, maybe because he knew he was about to get his butthole cleaned out...ermm

Originally posted by WorldWarHulk
That's due to Thanos's godlike reflexes... 😛

That's mostly because, if he would have grabbed it, he was planning on keeping it. You know, by flying a f*cking long ways away?
Or, maybe because he knew he was about to get his butthole cleaned out...ermm

Thanos does rimjobs? ermm

I think that Surfer IG feat was clocked at 350x lightspeed.

Originally posted by long pig
I think that Surfer IG feat was clocked at 350x lightspeed.

Originally posted by long pig
I think that Surfer IG feat was clocked at 350x lightspeed.

And it was still a travelling speed feat.

Thanos powered himself down so he could enjoy beating the heroes' asses.

As for the fight:
Let's just say Surfer can't blitz for arguments sake. It's been shown he can go from 0-350x lightspeed in a second or two, why can't Surfer simply fly off at that speed and come back at that speed and clock Superman? Unless Superman has 350x lightspeed reflexes, he wouldn't know what hit him.
Superman might get a punch or two in before Surfer is gone, but Surfer can take it easily.

Surfer could keep a bead on him from lightyears away and just dive bomb the guy.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What ever it was, We know he would have never taken that Guantlet. How can you take something from someone who can see the future, and Controls Time and space. I don't give a damn if you were KC Flash. It just ain't happening.

Originally posted by batdude123
And it was still a travelling speed feat.

Superman hardly, if at all, breaks the sound barrier when he blitzes.

Originally posted by long pig
Going faster than light while dodging meteors isn't a travel feat.

Superman hardly, if at all, breaks the sound barrier when he blitzes.

Yeah, it's a travelling speed feat. Superman's recently gone multiple lightyears in a few hours. He's also gone a lighthour in a few seconds which implies 1000s of times the speed of light. 🙂

Why, because writers don't put sonic booms in there while he does it? That hardly proves anything.

And Surfer doesn't speedblitz.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, it's a travelling speed feat. Superman's recently gone multiple lightyears in a few hours. He's also gone a lighthour in a few seconds which implies 1000s of times the speed of light. 🙂

Why, because writers don't put sonic booms in there while he does it? That hardly proves anything.

And Surfer doesn't speedblitz.

Originally posted by WorldWarHulk
Surfer's traveled half a million lightyears, in a couple seconds, or so...ermm
It also said before he did it, that he was about to go into warp speed...ermm

Which has no bearing in a fight... and that's what I've been trying to say.

Travelling speed is moot when two opponents are facing each other in a 1-1 fight.

It would mean something in a race, but not a fight.

Superman has the superior combat speed. Big difference.

Originally posted by batdude123
Which has no bearing in a fight... and that's what I've been trying to say.

Travelling speed is moot when two opponents are facing each other in a 1-1 fight.

It would mean something in a race, but not a fight.

Superman has the superior combat speed. Big difference.

Nano-second reflexes... ermm

Originally posted by WorldWarHulk
Surfer runs into him from all sides...

Nano-second reflexes... ermm

Originally posted by WorldWarHulk
Surfer runs into him from all sides...

Nano-second reflexes... ermm

WTF. Surfer has never done anything like that against such a small target like a humanoid. Even Still, The surfer can't crank out enough power to really dmg superman. Barring Plot induced wins like Power sappage and use of Kryptonite, Surfer couldn't win.