Originally posted by FistOfThe North
it's all cultural I'm telling you.For example Chinese culture is like a billion years old and they've had time to culture themselves into a standard way of being. (Which is seemingly a high standard.) It's taught to them and is learned through osmosis since birth. Why? Cause they're not born with it. It's culture (and the environment) Not genetics.
Let's put a Chinese born kid in a Black high crime ghetto a few days after he's born. Let's raise them there as well and with the ghetto mentality.
He would turn out the way whites think blacks in the ghetto are: Ghetto
Now, lets put a Black kid born in the ghetto slums of an American city and place him in China with a well to do family a few days after he's born. Chances are when he grows up he would be just as "intelligent" as your (stereo) typical studios Chinese kid.
Why cause it's the way he was raised, cultural impact and his environment. Genes are NOT a factor.
No being around the Chinese caused yellow cells to go into his brain and make him superintelligent 😐
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Let's put a Chinese born kid in a Black high crime ghetto a few days after he's born. Let's raise them there as well and with the ghetto mentality.He would turn out the way whites think blacks in the ghetto are: Ghetto
Now, lets put a Black kid born in the ghetto slums of an American city and place him in China with a well to do family a few days after he's born. Chances are when he grows up he would be just as "intelligent" as your (stereo) typical studios Chinese kid.
neither of those experiments would show either that intelligence is genetic or cultural. It is correlational. There is really no way in doing these experiments that will be "difinitive".
Also, nobody is saying that there isn't a social component to intelligence.
Originally posted by FistOfThe NorthSo what your saying is that the enviroment revolving you is what matters?
it's all cultural I'm telling you.For example Chinese culture is like a billion years old and they've had time to culture themselves into a standard way of being. (Which is seemingly a high standard.) It's taught to them and is learned through osmosis since birth. Why? Cause they're not born with it. It's culture (and the environment) Not genetics.
Let's put a Chinese born kid in a Black high crime ghetto a few days after he's born. Let's raise them there as well and with the ghetto mentality.
He would turn out the way whites think blacks in the ghetto are: Ghetto
Now, lets put a Black kid born in the ghetto slums of an American city and place him in China with a well to do family a few days after he's born. Chances are when he grows up he would be just as "intelligent" as your (stereo) typical studios Chinese kid.
Why cause it's the way he was raised, cultural impact and his environment. Genes are NOT a factor.
....I see.
I still disagree though since it is not a definite. Many have made it out of bad enviroments just fine if you are willing to get away from it. 😄
Originally posted by inimalist
[b]The Totality of Available Evidence Shows the Race IQ Gap Still Remains
J. Philippe Rushton and Arthur R. Jensen
We reviewed evidence that (a) the distribution of IQ scores around the world shows averages of 106 for East Asians, 100 for Whites, 85 for U.S. Blacks, and 70 for sub-Saharan Africans; (b) race differences are most pronounced on the more g-loaded subtests (g being the general factor of mental ability); (c) race differences are most pronounced on the subtests whose scores show the most heritability; and (d) racial differences in brain size parallel the IQ differences. We also reviewed corroborating studies of (e) racial admixture, (f) trans-racial adoption, (g) regression to different racial means, (h) 60 related life-history traits, (i) human origins, and (j) the inadequacy of environmental explanations of the racial IQ difference.
Psychological Science, 17, 10, 921-922, 2006
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9280.2006.01803.x
[/B]
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Watson was talking about Africans, not AfricanAmericans.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
it's all cultural I'm telling you.For example Chinese culture is like a billion years old and they've had time to culture themselves into a standard way of being. (Which is seemingly a high standard.) It's taught to them and is learned through osmosis since birth. Why? Cause they're not born with it. It's culture (and the environment) Not genetics.
Let's put a Chinese born kid in a Black high crime ghetto a few days after he's born. Let's raise them there as well and with the ghetto mentality.
He would turn out the way whites think blacks in the ghetto are: Ghetto
Now, lets put a Black kid born in the ghetto slums of an American city and place him in China with a well to do family a few days after he's born. Chances are when he grows up he would be just as "intelligent" as your (stereo) typical studios Chinese kid.
Why cause it's the way he was raised, cultural impact and his environment. Genes are NOT a factor.
Did you just say that blacks who live in the ghetto are less-intelligent as a means of denying that genetics have anything to do with intelligence? Or are you talking about the crappy education they get? Your argument seems to come down to money, which is not accurate.
Originally posted by Devil King
Did you just say that blacks who live in the ghetto are less-intelligent as a means of denying that genetics have anything to do with intelligence? Or are you talking about the crappy education they get? Your argument seems to come down to money, which is not accurate.
No, I did not say blacks whom live in the ghetto are less intelligent. However i do believe that the chances for success there are much more dismal than say with other groups living in non-substandard environments especially education-wise. An we know that education is after all an intelligence stimulator/enhancer. And that it's not embraced in the ghetto, makes it's residents seems dumb to white people.
And as far as finance money can play a factor but not the only factor. there are poor ghetto kids that if given a chance would succeed beyond what whites consider intelligent. For example Fredrick Douglas: former slave to being one of the most influential African American (or just plain American) in this country's history. Ray Charles. Grew up in the currently and subtly segregated South (and was Blind) and became one of the most respected musicians in history, my Governor Deval Patrick, the first Black Gov. of Mass, grew up in the South side of Chicago. That place is murder Central.
All born black and poor and all huge successes.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
No, I did not say blacks whom live in the ghetto are less intelligent. However i do believe that the chances for success there are much more dismal than say with other groups living in non-substandard environments especially education-wise. An we know that education is after all an intelligence stimulator/enhancer. And that it's not embraced in the ghetto, makes it's residents seems dumb to white people.And as far as finance money can play a factor but not the only factor. there are poor ghetto kids that if given a chance would succeed beyond what whites consider intelligent. For example Fredrick Douglas: former slave to being one of the most influential African American (or just plain American) in this country's history. Ray Charles. Grew up in the currently and subtly segregated South (and was Blind) and became one of the most respected musicians in history, my Governor Deval Patrick, the first Black Gov. of Mass, grew up in the South side of Chicago. That place is murder Central.
All born black and poor and all huge successes.
Environment plays a role into what kind of person you become. Yeah, I think most people already understand that.
Originally posted by Bicnarok
What worries me is that people suddenly jump on the political correct racist bandwagon as soon as something like this is reported.The truth is there are differences in race, not in all cases but in most.
Generalization is never good but take a couple of examples.Black people naturally grow more muscle mass, so have more chance to become better athletes in some sports, you only have to watch the Olympics to see this. For some reason they arn´t good swimmers, someone told me that its because their buts stick out too much, sounds daft be could be a logical reason.
Indian/Pakistani people are for some reason very good at maths, are good at learning look at how many IT experts/ programmers there are there, look at how many Doctors there are.
Theres are undoubtedly differences, but I can´t see intelligence being a genetic one, more likely the background and upbringing. People with rich parents tend to do better in school for some reason.
Hypocritical, wrong, and stupid.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
it's all cultural I'm telling you.For example Chinese culture is like a billion years old and they've had time to culture themselves into a standard way of being. (Which is seemingly a high standard.) It's taught to them and is learned through osmosis since birth. Why? Cause they're not born with it. It's culture (and the environment) Not genetics.
Let's put a Chinese born kid in a Black high crime ghetto a few days after he's born. Let's raise them there as well and with the ghetto mentality.
He would turn out the way whites think blacks in the ghetto are: Ghetto
Now, lets put a Black kid born in the ghetto slums of an American city and place him in China with a well to do family a few days after he's born. Chances are when he grows up he would be just as "intelligent" as your (stereo) typical studios Chinese kid.
Why cause it's the way he was raised, cultural impact and his environment. Genes are NOT a factor.
Actually, you could have two separate outcomes from the one you described for both individuals.
1. The African American and Chinese children may actually exceed their piers* because they are physically different and are treated differently so this may causes a positive intellectual response in the individual children.
2. The African American and Chinese children may actually perform worse than their piers* because they are physically different and are treated differently so this may causes a negative intellectual response in the individual children.
*Piers, in this instance, is used to describe the people that the children live around in their respective geographic. (The African American child's piers would be the Chinese, and the Chinese child's piers would be the African Americans.)
However, generally, I have to agree with your assessment.
Here is another scenario:
What if the children was allowed to grow up until about 6 or 7 and THEN swapped? I think that you would see, generally, the African American child excel beyond his chinese piers, because this child was under privileged and now has the chance to improve themselves. (Along with the strict discipline in Chinese schools, this child would have no choice but to conform.)
However, I cannot speak for the underprivileged Chinese because I have never observed something like that first hand.
While this statement is far from true, I can see where he's coming from. Many black students I know fit the black stereotype extremely well. They listen to hip hop, get poor grades, and can't speak a proper English sentence to save their life. However, I know just as many that are just as productive and intelligent as the next guy.
Originally posted by Robtard
Environment plays a role into what kind of person you become. Yeah, I think most people already understand that.
Not your nobel peace prize winner. And alot of other Americans too.
You'd be surprised at the amount of Whites that truly believe intelligence is physically/biologically connected to skin color. That basically they're smarter than blacks because they have pink skin. They'd throw out that environmental issue so fast I'll make your head spin.
Originally posted by dadudemon
What if the children was allowed to grow up until about 6 or 7 and THEN swapped? I think that you would see, generally, the African American child excel beyond his chinese piers, because this child was under privileged and now has the chance to improve themselves. (Along with the strict discipline in Chinese schools, this child would have no choice but to conform.)However, I cannot speak for the underprivileged Chinese because I have never observed something like that first hand.
Did you mean what if the Chinese raised Black child went back to the ghetto and the ghetto raised Chinese kid went back to China? If so I'm gonna have to disagree with your thought on how you think the underprivileged child would turn out if and when swapped at that age.
Most ghetto kids, especially at that age, especially after going thought the trauma of living in a ghetto environment are hardly motivated or care less to prove anything to anyone even themselves unless it's to prove how cool or tough they are. Even at that age. The Chinese kid would fail.
The Black kid might be teased and called white by his African peers but he'll still continue on and excel because anti-intellectualism wasn't imprinted in his brain during those significant early stages in his life. And he was taught well enough that going to school was the way to go if you wanted to get ahead.
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Not your nobel peace prize winner. And alot of other Americans too.You'd be surprised at the amount of Whites that truly believe intelligence is physically/biologically connected to skin color. That basically they're smarter than blacks because they have pink skin. They'd throw out that environmental issue so fast I'll make your head spin.
You'd be surprised how many "Blacks" truly believe that skin color plays are role in many varied attributes. The N.O.I. thinks "Whites" are genetically engineered to be evil.
I think FistoftheNorth is dead on. Any perceptions made at the differences in black and white people, any at all, are cultural. Being cultural, ofcourse, these stereotypes don't apply to all individuals as not all individuals are raised with the exact same exposure and emphasis on any part of any given culture.
Here's another stereotype due to cultural differences. Some black dudes go the prison.....come out and brag about it. They're all proud because they have "street cred". That is due to the surroundings they were raised in, the culture they were exposed to. You don't see too many white guys smiling when you talk about the amount of time they spent in the "pen". Again, it does not apply to all blacks or all whites.....just seems to be a higher percentage of blacks who are raised in that culture...........just as there seems to be a higher percentage of black people who talk about pimpin' hoes and bling bling. their color has nothing to do with it......merely the surroundings they were raised in and what they were taught to value.
ps. what's with all this African American B.S.? that is just as racist as n-gger. A black american is just as much an american as you or I. No differential is warranted. If you know a guy from Kenya who has lived in the U.S. for 7 years and has become a legalized citizen, he is an African-American. Just because some black dude you know named Rob from Chicago had ancestors from Africa, makes him no more an African-American than everybody else European-Americans or European/American-Americans. If you're born here, you're an American.......enough of this hyphenated crap to segregate races.
Originally posted by Bicnarok
Black people naturally grow more muscle mass, so have more chance to become better athletes in some sports, you only have to watch the Olympics to see this. For some reason they arn´t good swimmers, someone told me that its because their buts stick out too much, sounds daft be could be a logical reason.
It's not that black people necessarily have more muscle mass. For many, sports is a way out of impoverished neighborhoods, so they focus on that more than on an education.
Black people may also appear to be more muscled because they have less subcutaneous fat, so shape and definition stand out more, which gives the illusion of size. Less subcutaneous fat is also why you don't see many black Olympic swimmers: fat is buoyant (swimming is also not hip-hop cool, AFAIK). The less fat you have, odds are the more energy you'll need to keep yourself afloat (in addition to moving forward).
Originally posted by inimalist
If there are significant differences in the cognitive abilities of different races, the idea that social solutions that worked for one race would also work for other races becomes much more questionable. If people are intelligent in "different ways" it becomes of the utmost importance when trying to design ways to make their lives better.And from a very basic scientific point of view, there is value in all knowledge, and this could lead to many other discoveries about how our brains work.
I agree that learning is a good thing and of course we shuold gather all the info we can even on the fine details of what makes us all different. However, your idea "If people are..design ways to make there lives better," can be manipulated in ways to really not make life better for those who are "intelligent in defferent ways." Look at eugenics for example. I know that is hardly the same thing but my point is maybe after obtaining certain info some of us with the power to obtain it and use it may or may not use that info for their own best interest instead of for who it is intended to help.
Maybe to help clear this up you can give me an example of a difference in a group of people (hypothetically if you want) and show me a way that (the government) some controlling body could design a system to benefit those who have that specific difference. If you want that is.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
If you know a guy from Kenya who has lived in the U.S. for 7 years and has become a legalized citizen, he is an African-American. Just because some black dude you know named Rob from Chicago had ancestors from Africa, makes him no more an African-American than everybody else European-Americans or European/American-Americans. If you're born here, you're an American.......enough of this hyphenated crap to segregate races.
I like how you think. As a country with so many different races and cultures, it's about time we as a people try to find a common link and embrace it all as one. Maybe then we could sort of sympathize a little better with one another. I know it's ideallistic bullsh*t ......but hey whatayagonnado?