Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Hmm... I dunno, Kyo and Iori at once is a tough call, I mean they arn't slouches.Does Iori get his flames back for this theory?
i was being a jerk when i posted this but i meant it, yeah he has his flames. them together can take akuma although iori is akuma's rival in the match of the millennium
I thought Gouki's rival was Rugal... Ah well..
With the flames it would be a pretty viscious and long fight. it would take a while to batter through Gouki's durability, but both Kyo and Iori have really exeptional stamina, and fighting spirit enough. it depends really, if either one falls before they can stop him, then the other becomes easy pickings. But if they manage to break through his defences without either one of them passing out, then he have a high probability of actually winning.
Personally, if he actually hits them with anything heavy, then they won't be in any shape to continue fighting, but the problem is, because there is two of them, targeting one without getting blindsided by the other is a problem if they surround him. He does have all-ranged attacks and BFR attacks, but timing the Tatsumaki techniques to hit both simultaneously is really tight, and I doubt Akuma would go for BFRs unless really pushed to the limit... Hmm.
Good match.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I thought Gouki's rival was Rugal... Ah well..With the flames it would be a pretty viscious and long fight. it would take a while to batter through Gouki's durability, but both Kyo and Iori have really exeptional stamina, and fighting spirit enough. it depends really, if either one falls before they can stop him, then the other becomes easy pickings. But if they manage to break through his defences without either one of them passing out, then he have a high probability of actually winning.
Personally, if he actually hits them with anything heavy, then they won't be in any shape to continue fighting, but the problem is, because there is two of them, targeting one without getting blindsided by the other is a problem if they surround him. He does have all-ranged attacks and BFR attacks, but timing the Tatsumaki techniques to hit both simultaneously is really tight, and I doubt Akuma would go for BFRs unless really pushed to the limit... Hmm.
Good match.
in the neo geo pocket svc they're rivals. shin akuma goenitz, new thread
Originally posted by Innominate__1
So um.. Back to the topic, I give it to goenitz since he's got too much power and has a variety of methods to just push akuma back or slam him or whatever... Wind's pretty ubiquitous...
Read the topics you post in dude... I've already refuted this. Too much power when the biggest thing he's done is blow down a stadium, compared to sinking an island for an early Akuma means Akuma mauls him in terms of raw power.
Duuudeee... Im sorry, i didn't know you refuted this... Gee.. I guess raw power does count for alot.... Happy? I agreed wtih you... 🙂 now to put some logic into this... Ima borrow your term of ''raw power'' and point out that at 18 goenitz ripped... Freakin RIPPED!! out rugals eye... At 18.. I think akuma at that age was doing... Oh that's right! getting his backside handed to him by his bro.... So by '96 goenitz could have only gotten.... Um... Stronger? And that stadium thing was a ''glimpse'' of his power.. A lil taste of what one of the 4th heavenly kings can do... And btw he lost cause it took iori, kyo, chizuru, as well as vice and mature's betrayal to subdue him... Ok now.... ''refute'' that 🙂
Originally posted by Innominate__1
Duuudeee... Im sorry, i didn't know you refuted this... Gee.. I guess raw power does count for alot.... Happy? I agreed wtih you... 🙂
Sarcasm aside, Akuma also has more martial skill, and far better demonstrated feats. But that would mean you'd have to look over the thread, which you failed to do twice now.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
now to put some logic into this... Ima borrow your term of ''raw power'' and point out that at 18 goenitz ripped... Freakin RIPPED!! out rugals eye... At 18..
And? So what?
Originally posted by Innominate__1
I think akuma at that age was doing... Oh that's right! getting his backside handed to him by his bro....
Was that before or after Akuma killed Goutetsu with the SGS? Oh, thats right, it was after.... Goutetsu, who invented the Ansatsuken arts.... Jesus hillbilly on a stick!
Besides, Gouken being one of the very few who could match Akuma means very little to you, right?
Originally posted by Innominate__1
So by '96 goenitz could have only gotten.... Um... Stronger? And that stadium thing was a ''glimpse'' of his power.. A lil taste of what one of the 4th heavenly kings can do...
Ah, the classic "Glimpse" argument again... Well, here we go around the carousel. Explain to me this, Why, at any time during the actual battle, ya know, when Goenitz actually had to try, did nothing else but the stadium go down? Hmm... Oh! and BTW, the island Sinker Akuma used was only a glimpse of his power too... Or had you forgotten that Gouki threw that fight on purpose, and then showed Ryu a "Childs Play" level of his strength when he punded Gokentou into the sea? See, I can play scemantics too.
Not to mention that sinking a landmass>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrecking a building.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
And btw he lost cause it took iori, kyo, chizuru, as well as vice and mature's betrayal to subdue him... Ok now.... ''refute'' that 🙂
Already did. Read above, and read previous posts. he lost to people who wouldnt be able to handle Akuma either.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Sarcasm aside, Akuma also has more martial skill, and far better demonstrated feats. But that would mean you'd have to look over the thread, which you failed to do twice now.And? So what?
Was that before or after Akuma killed Goutetsu with the SGS? Oh, thats right, it was after.... Goutetsu, who invented the Ansatsuken arts.... Jesus hillbilly on a stick!
Besides, Gouken being one of the very few who could match Akuma means very little to you, right?
Ah, the classic "Glimpse" argument again... Well, here we go around the carousel. Explain to me this, Why, at any time during the actual battle, ya know, when Goenitz actually had to try, did nothing else but the stadium go down? Hmm... Oh! and BTW, the island Sinker Akuma used was only a glimpse of his power too... Or had you forgotten that Gouki threw that fight on purpose, and then showed Ryu a "Childs Play" level of his strength when he punded Gokentou into the sea? See, I can play scemantics too.
Not to mention that sinking a landmass>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrecking a building.
Already did. Read above, and read previous posts. he lost to people who wouldnt be able to handle Akuma either.
Sarcasm aside indeed... ok so as far as martial skill im willin to say akuma's got that more so than goenitz, being that he(akuma) trains and trains or meditates, whatever... Goenitz doesn't seem interested in that, maybe cause he doesn't have to... The way i keep seeing it is, that if he could just continue to throw wind against akuma til he's gone for good or slam him away... I know they can both translocate and all... But geonitz has DIVINE power granted to him... Was never just a regular human who gave himself over to dark power... And if being at a very young age(18) and then later being able to command freaking wind, destroy structers and warp the sky, as well as, defeating an older fighter who was already accomplished (and possibly undeafeted), doesn't mean much to you then... Why would the island punch mean much to me? If he can't connect it what good would it do? Even if he was shin or oni or whatever... If he can't get close to goenitz... What will or what can he do? 🙂
Originally posted by Innominate__1
Sarcasm aside indeed... ok so as far as martial skill im willin to say akuma's got that more so than goenitz, being that he(akuma) trains and trains or meditates, whatever... Goenitz doesn't seem interested in that, maybe cause he doesn't have to...
Completely irrelevant to the end result.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
The way i keep seeing it is, that if he could just continue to throw wind against akuma til he's gone for good or slam him away... I know they can both translocate and all... But geonitz has DIVINE power granted to him...
Which means nothing. Divine power is a title, not a capability. either prove this actually means something, or concede that it is irrelevant to the end result.
BTW, Akuma has dealt with "Divine" powers before, in the form of Gill, and killed him.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
Was never just a regular human who gave himself over to dark power... And if being at a very young age(18) and then later being able to command freaking wind, destroy structers and warp the sky, as well as, defeating an older fighter who was already accomplished (and possibly undeafeted), doesn't mean much to you then... Why would the island punch mean much to me? If he can't connect it what good would it do?
Because everything you have stated is meaningless and unquantifiable. Rugal, for all his strength, was merely no more than what Bison was, a man forever in search of shortcuts to power and glory. The Island Sinker is a direct feat that is quantifiable, measurable... Goenitz's biggest drawcard was the stadium, which does not compare.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
Even if he was shin or oni or whatever... If he can't get close to goenitz... What will or what can he do? 🙂
Warp in. Akuma moves at speeds comparable to Goenitz at the very least. Or pierce the wind funnels with an energy blast that pierces the atmosphere and craters the ground like a nuclear detonation with nothing but the recoil. If you think Goenitz and his tornadoes survives that, then you are not thinking logically.
So a force of nature constitutes as illogical? Ok so we can put nuclear explosions in there as well?(illogic category) I grant you, he might be able to cut through the tornadoes and whatnot but so what?(your words remember?) For all we know goenitz isn't just going to stand there and let the island punch hit him he can teleport away or grab him (though you might think impossible) and turn the tides... Normally, i'd admit akuma would win, but this is a deity's right-hand man(not just a title since he is the BOSS of '96) ... So honestly he doesn't lack power, does not need to use his martial skills to fight(is why he fights strangely and with his dam wind attacks)... And like i said before.. Took about 2-4 very strong and strong warriors to bring him down... 3 of which have to combine their strengths to bring his master to a dormant state... Yeah.. But the island punch just outdoes everything huh? 🙂
And so the carousel turns....
Originally posted by Innominate__1
So a force of nature constitutes as illogical? Ok so we can put nuclear explosions in there as well?(illogic category) I grant you, he might be able to cut through the tornadoes and whatnot but so what? (your words remember?)
Where did I say "Illogical?" about his control over wind? I said it was irrelevant, particularly because Akuma's body is capable of generating AND withstanding much greater forces than those of windstorms. And Akuma throwing energy attacksn and plows of physical force much greater than Goenitz was killed by is not a "So What" hand wavable like your ascertations where. The only thing you said was that Goenitz generates vas amounts of wind, to which I replied "So What?" because you didn't describe any way how that could be used to stop Akuma whatsoever. That was a pretty sizable hint for you to actually make a claim here, and provide proof that it would work.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
For all we know goenitz isn't just going to stand there and let the island punch hit him he can teleport away or grab him (though you might think impossible) and turn the tides... Normally, i'd admit akuma would win, but this is a deity's right-hand man(not just a title since he is the BOSS of '96) ...
Who said he was? And who said an island killing physical attack is Akuma's only avenue? And it is just a title dude, boss or no. He got trashed by 2 guys who would not trouble Akuma anywhere near as much.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
So honestly he doesn't lack power, does not need to use his martial skills to fight(is why he fights strangely and with his dam wind attacks)... And like i said before.. Took about 2-4 very strong and strong warriors to bring him down... 3 of which have to combine their strengths to bring his master to a dormant state... Yeah.. But the island punch just outdoes everything huh? 🙂
When it is a feat that the characters your describing cannot match with their biggest and best techniques, yes, i'm iclined to side with the guy with the higher skill, and the power and strength to do what they cannot. tell me, what happens when one of Akuma's physical strikes lands on one of them with the force of 25 Megatonnes Per Square Inch of physical force? I'll tell you, at best they get reduced to blooey juice, at worst, they become a fine red mist. Either way, they are no longer among the living.
Like the enthusiasm 😄 ok... So the carousel turns? Um... Idk what u mean by that but ''it's completely irrelevant to the end result'' haha!! 😛 you must lov to hear urself talk huh? It's cool, i like debating too... So trashed by ''2 guys who wouldn't give akuma any trouble..'' maybe, but it was actually 3 people (kagura's included guess i forgot 😛 now please say ''so? even those 3 won't hold a candle to akuma'' haha!!) ok and i will thank you to not refer to the ''3 weapons of God'' in such a way... It is just a title it means nothing though... Ever wonder why people boast these titles? And while alot are disproven, some do stand? It took 3 people to subdue goenitz... The same amount(and The descendants) that took his master... Wonder why?? Sure i can't prove it via ''feats''.. But story wise... You can't disprove it either 🙂 so with that said, im willing to go on faith and admit that goenitz cannot fight better than akuma but is more powerful... Since his wind powers (he used the stadium wind as a warm up so im sure his serious wind power's got to be at least 2 times as bad) can pretty much provide a hell of a defense... Then, What would it matter if you can punch ''25megatons per square inch'' (forgot what u posted)?? If winds as strong as an F5 if not stronger wouldn't permit you to do so....?
Originally posted by Innominate__1
Like the enthusiasm 😄 ok... So the carousel turns? Um... Idk what u mean by that but ''it's completely irrelevant to the end result'' haha!! 😛 you must lov to hear urself talk huh? It's cool, i like debating too...
What I mean is that the bloody circle of arguments that keep bein g presented I've argued a thousand or more times over my KMC career... I keep having to repeat myself in goddamn circles, like a Carousel. So yes, what I said is plenty relevant. Oh, and Text on a screen has no sound, so I can't "Hear" it... 🙄
Originally posted by Innominate__1
So trashed by ''2 guys who wouldn't give akuma any trouble..'' maybe, but it was actually 3 people (kagura's included guess i forgot 😛 now please say ''so? even those 3 won't hold a candle to akuma'' haha!!) ok and i will thank you to not refer to the ''3 weapons of God'' in such a way... It is just a title it means nothing though...
Kagura was KOed throughout that whole fight. and no, I will reffer to "Orochi's Kryptonite" however is prudent.
Originally posted by Innominate__1
Ever wonder why people boast these titles? And while alot are disproven, some do stand? It took 3 people to subdue goenitz... The same amount(and The descendants) that took his master... Wonder why?? Sure i can't prove it via ''feats''.. But story wise... You can't disprove it either 🙂 so with that said, im willing to go on faith and admit that goenitz cannot fight better than akuma but is more powerful... Since his wind powers (he used the stadium wind as a warm up so im sure his serious wind power's got to be at least 2 times as bad) can pretty much provide a hell of a defense... Then, What would it matter if you can punch ''25megatons per square inch'' (forgot what u posted)?? If winds as strong as an F5 if not stronger wouldn't permit you to do so....?
And you think Orochi's stands? Even though he did literally nothing in his one canonical appearance other than get jobbed? I ask you to rationalise this logic please.
It's not my job to disprove your claims, you have to actually prove them for them to be fact. I know what Orochi is lorewise, but in character, he got jobbed by mortals with far less power than Goenitz's current opponent.
How is he more powerful? And no, being the "Right hand" to a metahuman spirit being is not quantifiable. he needs to have demonstrated abilities that exceed Akumas for him to be considered beyond Akuma's power. And do not forget, I havn't popped the cork on Shin Akuma or Oni.... yet.
Ok, Twice as strong as what it took to down a stadium.... I'll be generous and say he can level a city.... (Many many times double the Stadium wreck feat mind you), Thats STILL nowhere near island sinking... Not by a frigging long shot. Apparently the depths of this one feat escapes you.
How would an F5 Tornado (417-509 kph), which is strong enough to tear apart a well build house, stop a guy who.... sinks an Ilsand and parts mountains? your talking a force of a few hundred tonnes of TNT, to a force of 25 MEGATONNES of TNT PSI level strength AT LEAST... Thats like trying to stop a tidal wave with a fire hose.... it's just not happening.
I see your logic... And am still unconvinced 🙂 shocking isn't it? See the thing is that as far as the cutscenes withing the game, they only give us a little to go by so there's no way anyone can provide u pictures and or game sequences where goenitz goes full power... But... If you cannot see that the very few ''glimpses'' of his power can do what they can do.. And ask urself ''what do you think he can do at full strength?'' ( i know you may not think much)but i think alot of destruction and damage would lie in it's wake... See i actually use my logic to come to some conclusions where no evidence is given... You're right in that sense, there's no actual in your face non-debatable without a doubt fact of what goenitz is capable of... But come on, it's gotta be alot.. And ''pop the cork''? Haha!! Ur funny man... Well that's good go ahead and ''pop it'' because as it stands you will claim that unless you see it, read it or whatever... You'll dismiss it... And as for me, well i will gather what i saw and what information i know and deduct it into my opinion... Because idk... A hadouken flying against lots of wind may not hit it's target... But since neither's seen it you won't believe it huh? 🙂
Akuma can break through those winds easily using that same attack he does in his SSF IV ending which destroyed a large section of a forest as a side effect even though it was fired upwards. Also Akuma could use the Ashura Senkuu (which gives him momentary intangibility) to get close to Goenitz and then rip him apart with his superior strenght.
The sub that spotted Akuma is called something like Deep Sea 3000.
Fun Fact: The thousand[k] at the end of the name of a sub indicates number of leagues at which the sub could dive. Handlein the pressure at 3000 leagues is like being pressed down upon with 20601251.5903 psi.
😆 With that said, there's no Earthly wind that would blow away Akuma. And to be honest, there's no wind in this whole solar system that would even make him budge. Akuma could chill on Neptune.
That's nice but it's speculation, if you can't prove it with facts or show me he can take on goenitz's winds then i will dismiss it... Sound familiar? 🙂 at the same time i suppose you can say, all evidence points to him being able to do so right? (That sounds like a page from my book in concluding things by what were shown) and what we're shown is that orochi's a dang ''metahumanspirit?'' idk(the title of a god upsets people) and goenitz is pretty much the strongest of his ''clan'' yet (hakkeshu) so why wouldn't he be able to blast away with tital waves of wind a dude who trains constantly and doesn't fight unless they're really strong or whatever? so i grant that akuma's got a higher threshold for what? Pressure? At least ocean floor pressure... That's not really resistance is it? And even if he managed to get close goenitz can translocate as he is insanely fast (is how he beat kyo with such ease prior to '96 kof) it almost seems like a parallel to akuma beating ryu and then leaving him there because he's ''not strong enough''... But again im speculating, no concrete proof here.. 😄