Originally posted by Darth Hord
Proof that there was a cloaking device? I don't think there was ever any mention of one. Maybe not traffic directly over the 2 mountain peaks but being as how the whole planet is a city it would be surrounded by skyscrapers. Again the sher size (19 km or 11 miles) I don't recall the mountains being listed as being taller than that. And the proof about the traffic is in the movies of the constant multiple levels of traffic leaving and arriving. Even at night the planet has lots of traffic judging from the chase scene in episode 2. It reminds me of New York city even at night there are still plenty of cars on the road and corscant is just a big city with a population over a trillion and combine that with a size of super star destroyer descending it is very likely that the ship would have been scene. That would be like a ufo landing on the outskirts of NYC in more of the residential areas lots of people would see and hear it. There is no way a ship that size could be silent went descending.Then peole could record it like we record ufos and show them to the world via tv and internet. I would have to see definitive proof of cloaking device was put on the ship. And then what about the possibly of a nearby republic spy seeing? That is certainly interesting news to report,we know Sidious is a very very smart man, he would have to have known the possibility of republic spies seeing it. A super star destroyer is very valuable I wold not want my enemies to know I buried one and risk a sabotage operation. Seeing as how there is no proof a cloaking device being put on the ship it would label that out as possibility cause it would have been simple enough to say that it had a cloaking device and yet it didn't and the ship could be scene from miles and miles away from the city skyscrapers and ships. It is next to impossible for it not to have been seen by someone who shouldn't have.Edit: I will try to get a response to your other post up tommorrow.
Dude... the burden of proof is not on me. I'm simply pointing out holes in the "Sidious mindwiped millions" theory that people have going on here. The fact is, cloaking devices are not exactly that rare when it comes to ships in the SWU, and the Lusyanka could have easily been cloaked.
As for the air traffic, while there may be a lot in the city areas of Coruscant, there really wouldn't be any in an isolated mountain region. Also, we don't know how large this region was, and how isolated it may have been, meaning that the sound may not even register to the city region. Fact is, nothing indicates that the Lusyanka couldn't have landed in a distant and isolated Mountain area where any kind of noise or shadow wouldn't have been recognised by any of Coruscant's inhabitants. Nothing indicates that the Lusyanka couldn't have been cloaked, preventing anyone from seeing it as it descended into the Planet's atmosphere. Nothing indicates that Palpatine had to do anything more than what is stated: mindwiping the engineers that buried the ship. I appreciate the thought into the theory, I really do, but that's all it is: a theory.
Nothing in canon indicates that Sidious would have had to mindwipe millions...
All right, Nebaris.
I'll be back a little later tonight with my final response to this subject. I'm tired of arguing the issue regarding Palpatine's superiority over other Sith Lords; I've been spearheading it for two years, and it's been taxing, having to force it down the throats of others and forcing them to swallow. Every single person who has contended the issue has conceded the point and -- if they don't -- knows well enough not to argue it in the face of superior soures and a better constructed argument.
In conclusion, I'm fastly losing my desire to continue it. Every other person has accepted it, so by the end of the day, I'm content. I'll be back soon.
Originally posted by Gideon
All right, Nebaris.I'll be back a little later tonight with my final response to this subject. I'm tired of arguing the issue regarding Palpatine's superiority over other Sith Lords; I've been spearheading it for two years, and it's been taxing, having to force it down the throats of others and forcing them to swallow. Every single person who has contended the issue has conceded the point and -- if they don't -- knows well enough not to argue it in the face of superior soures and a better constructed argument.
In conclusion, I'm fastly losing my desire to continue it. Every other person has accepted it, so by the end of the day, I'm content. I'll be back soon.
Dude, you're pissing me off with your constant positive attitude. It's like a cheerleader vomiting sunshine. Everyone on this planet knows Noobaris can't debate, nor has Noobaris even won a debate. Noobaris types because Noobaris likes to see his own text, that is his only purpose. Nobody here takes any of his posts seriously, so stop being so nice.
As I stated earlier, this will be my final post on regarding this particular issue and (with any luck) Palpatine's status among the rest of the Sith. You may choose to respond or you may not; it's irrelevant at this point. The fact that I'm responding to this at all is simply an issue of pride. The only thing lacking here is a desire to argue the case after campaigning it for two years straight with an enormous success rate. However, I'd like to first conclude the following:
Look, Gideon, I can see that you're clearly much more intelligent than most here, and you haven't decided to get aggressive or anything, so I'll remain civil. But, honestly, I'm not Nebaris, there's not really much more I can say. If you could, post this guy's profile, so I'll be better able to point out the differences that will clearly be there. Also, out of curiosity, did Nebaris happen to go by the alias of David Storm? Some fool in the comic book versus forum accused me of being a sock of that person, so just curious.
This will definately be my final post regarding as to whether or not you are Nebaris or not. The fact remains that you and he post similarly. You both seem to generate strong support for Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Bane. As we speak, Sith'ari at EoD is campaigning against Nai Fohl in a case for Darth Sion -- using hauntingly familiar terms, phrases, and evidence that you care to use. Even in this thread, you two share eerie habits. Your constant use of the ambiguity card pertaining to quotes that debunk your theories, the same style of posting, and -- often times -- identical responses (verbatim). He's also got a notorious habit for lying about his identity to protect himself from bans. The similarities are far too evident and I consider deception (in this case) to be an act of desperation. If it is you (which I'm sure it is), there's no need in hiding it anymore.
Moving on:
Your attempts to undermine the quotes provided by these canon sources are ridiculous. Aren't you the same person who, just a few posts ago, attempt to justify usage of the non-canon cutscene from KotOR II as indication of Darth Nihilus's powers? Citing that since the scene was only removed due to time restraints, it's still "clearly" in tandem with the writers' intent? If we subscribe to such reasoning, then you have no choice but to accept the grim fact that Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all -- since these conclusions have manifested themselves in several sources. Sidious is, in fact, the only Sith Lord to have been identified as "the most powerful" by any source. The Dark Side Sourcebook states that "[the Galactic Emperor] succeeded where all others failed in taming the dark side" and the Revenge of the Sith novelization (a G-canon source) cites that "seen through the eyes of the Force, Palpatine was an event horizon. Darkness beyond darkness. A black hole of the Force" -- two others to add to the list of sources proclaiming Sidious's dominance. The fact that George Lucas has stated that balancing the Force requires removing Palpatine out of the equation is also sufficient. The message is irrefutable and incontrovertible: as far as LFL is concerned, he is the strongest Sith ever.
Since I'm going to use your methods on here, there's no need to refute your rebuttal regarding the individual sources since it is clearly the underlying message.
Firstly, greatness is almost always measured through accomplishments. Prove, undeniably, that it's power in this case.
We've used logic to rule out political accomplishments since the statement was made during the beginning of AotC. If you wish to challenge it, then the burden of proof is on you. Prove that it was referring to political achievement.
Secondly, you may say that it's in reference to Sidious at the beginning of AotC, but it doesn't change the fact that it's being explored from a time later on. The description could refer to a Sidious at a much later time, yet simply speaking of that person, in respect to the past.
The burden of proof is on you. Simply stating as much does not make it so. Prove that it is referring in respect to the past.
She's a phenomenally powerful force user. Force speed is a very simply technique that padawans learn. Ergo, she would know how to do it, and would excel at it.
Prove that she'd excel at it. That would require prodigious Force power to be evenly dispensed. Corran Horn is an immensely powerful Jedi capable of conjuring unparalleled illusions; yet he's absolutely terrible at telekinesis. Power =/= excellence in everything. Foresight =/= excellence in everything. For example, a deer might be able to see the hunter shoot the arrow -- doesn't mean it can dodge it.
Well, there's no indication as to whether any citizens would have witnessed the burial. It's only ever stated that he wiped the minds of the engineers that buried it, and for all we know, that could have been in an isolated area with no witnesses. Or, he could have simply had any witnesses killer or imprisoned. I honestly don't think he did anything more than what's actually stated.
No. It never says that. It says that "with the help of the Emperor's mindfogging powers, Imperial engineers buried the Lusankya..." -- it never states that he erased the memories of the engineers. Looking at the sentence makes it clear that his mind fogging powers "assisted" the engineers. Logic concludes that he did so by erasing the minds of the witnesses. A cloaking device is out of the question as Coruscant is entirely populated; people would obviously see the "grave" and ask questions. The notion that Palpatine murdered potential witnesses is out of the question, as then people would really start asking questions. Removing the memories from the witnesses in a heavily populated district is the most efficient and logical explanation.
Essentially, your pro-Sion arguments are fundamentally flawed. The premise you make your outrageous claims on have all been brought into question. You've yet to substantiate his skill. Saying that he was the head of a Sith assassins sect is ambiguous. You can't proclaim him superior or even a rival to Darth Sidious based on that fact, because you're comparing apples with oranges and lacking the methods by which to complete the comparison. Likewise, his speed is also called into question -- whereas Sidious was more than capable of moving "faster than the eye could follow" in the Darth Maul journals. He was also able to overwhelm three of "the finest swordsmen in the Order's history" in ten seconds thanks to his inhuman speed. And he was able to replicate this feat in Dark Empire, whilst generating waves of energy that butchered nearby Imperial personnel according to the audiobook (according to LS). His proficiency at Sith lightning allowed him to murder fifty stormtroopers in a short period of time; reduce three powerful Sith cultists who created "Darth Maul 2.0" (who in turn was able to challenge Darth Vader) to charred bones and ash in one gout of Force lightning -- before Vader could react; and lastly, even as he approached death in the inferior body of his final clone, where each act of the Force would bring him closer to death, he generated the power to easily kill Rayf Ysanna and mortally wound Master Brand. The Telos Holocron reveals that he had the power to "murder opponents from a great distance".
In conclusion, he's the most powerful Sith to have ever existed. He's well in excess of Darth Sion and Darth Traya and there is very little you can or have done to prove otherwise. Perhaps we'll continue this when you bring more to the table.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Dude, you're pissing me off with your constant positive attitude. It's like a cheerleader vomiting sunshine. Everyone on this planet knows Noobaris can't debate, nor has Noobaris even won a debate. Noobaris types because Noobaris likes to see his own text, that is his only purpose. Nobody here takes any of his posts seriously, so stop being so nice.
I'm done.
1. We know Sidious is #1. Everybody knows this, it's fact/canon/common sense.
2. Of course it's Noobaris. Same exact arguments, same exact stupidity arguing against canon, same exact denial, don't be naive.
3. If you ignore him, then everyone else will ignore him, and then he will be talking to himself, which he is essentially doing anyways.
So far noobaris is the only person i have seen attempting to refute canon in the same style as he did in his other accounts, IOU,proteus,crado,sith'ari,Mic assassin,the planet, allfg, ultra omega, kasim, thousand
Wow 10 accounts.
Advice nebaris, get a life.. seriously seeing that you never want to leave an internet forum and can't accept the fact your literally unwated anywhere
@ Ultra Omega
I don't understand that how you continue to argue against canon sources?
There are some valid reasons due to which several sources (as Gideon and few others pointed out to you) state that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
Infact! If you take a good notice of what people think about Sidious who travelled with him, you will notice that they all seemed to be very afraid from him. Because they all knew that it would be like committing suicide to even challenge him.
Now if you consider Sion to be great and an exceptional fighter because of the reason that he was the head of a Sith Assassin's sect, than keep in mind that Sidious was the head of an entire Empire (the biggest tyrannical regime) in SW Universe to have ever exist. Now to mantain discipline in such a great Empire, it would not just depend upon loyality factor but also would require great power at personal level on Sidious' part through which he would inspire fear at immense level and that fear will reinforce loyality. And add to this the fact, that Sidious have fought against some of the greatest names in Star Wars history including Luke Skywalker and Yoda and held his own against them.
Against Yoda, Sidious was throwing senate pods at him like as if they were small toys. And in the Dark Empire era, he was displaying powers of such a level that it seemed that he would not need an Empire to do his bidding this time.
His feats and accomplishments are remarkable and like a source pointed out before, he succeeded in those cases where others had failed. One reason is that he had studied Sith history with great interest and learned from the mistakes of Sith Lords of the past. So he was also a "Sith Historian" as well.
The point is that even though he was not at all invincible, he still proved to be more powerful than any Sith Lord in the entire Star Wars Saga that includes famous people such as; Darth Revan, Darth Bane, Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Marka Ragnos and Darth Nihilus (and all of these Sith Lords have managed to accomplish far more than Sion could have imagined). And we will wait and see for the story of Darth Caedus to end before giving a final verdict about him.
And as I have already pointed out before: Darth Sidious will defeat Darth Sion using Dun Moch and his amazing force powers to subdue him and make him realize that he has no chance of defeating him. Darth Sion will eventually give up himself after getting tooled by him repeatedly. It would be a repeat of the scene in which Nihilus tooled Sion with a single attack, and Sion was left with no choice but to leave.
Anyways! It is time for you to change your ways for good.
Originally posted by Gideon
As I stated earlier, this will be my final post on regarding this particular issue and (with any luck) Palpatine's status among the rest of the Sith. You may choose to respond or you may not; it's irrelevant at this point. The fact that I'm responding to this at all is simply an issue of pride. The only thing lacking here is a desire to argue the case after campaigning it for two years straight with an enormous success rate. However, I'd like to first conclude the following:This will definately be my final post regarding as to whether or not you are Nebaris or not. The fact remains that you and he post similarly. You both seem to generate strong support for Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Bane. As we speak, Sith'ari at EoD is campaigning against Nai Fohl in a case for Darth Sion -- using hauntingly familiar terms, phrases, and evidence that you care to use. Even in this thread, you two share eerie habits. Your constant use of the ambiguity card pertaining to quotes that debunk your theories, the same style of posting, and -- often times -- identical responses (verbatim). He's also got a notorious habit for lying about his identity to protect himself from bans. The similarities are far too evident and I consider deception (in this case) to be an act of desperation. If it is you (which I'm sure it is), there's no need in hiding it anymore.
Well, I can only assume that it's a coincidence, or you're not able to analyse people very well. Either way, you said you'd drop it, so it's all gravy baby.
Moving on:Your attempts to undermine the quotes provided by these canon sources are ridiculous.
No, what's ridiculous is you trying to pass them off as fact, others blindly accepting them, and committing a burden of proof fallacy after having been asked to prove that the quotes definitely fit your interpretation.
Aren't you the same person who, just a few posts ago, attempt to justify usage of the non-canon cutscene from KotOR II as indication of Darth Nihilus's powers? Citing that since the scene was only removed due to time restraints, it's still "clearly" in tandem with the writers' intent? If we subscribe to such reasoning, then you have no choice but to accept the grim fact that Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all -- since these conclusions have manifested themselves in several sources.
...
You actually are comparing apples and oranges here.
What I was arguing was to do with the canonicity of force powers displayed in a cut scene. You're arguing that your interpretation is conclusive.
...they couldn't't be more different.
What you still don't appear to get is that power isn't unambiguous, greatness is measured in achievements, and a certain number of your quotes are actually not perfectly canon due to who's giving them. You're also greatly misinterpreting some of them.
Sidious is, in fact, the only Sith Lord to have been identified as "the most powerful" by any source. The Dark Side Sourcebook states that "[the Galactic Emperor] succeeded where all others failed in taming the dark side"
Which means what exactly? That he was able to hone the darkside into more of a useful tool rather than a devastating weapon? Which Sith wants to truly do that? Taming the darkside essentially lessens its destructive state, which most Sith wouldn't wish to achieve.
and the Revenge of the Sith novelization (a G-canon source) cites that "seen through the eyes of the Force, Palpatine was an event horizon. Darkness beyond darkness. A black hole of the Force" -- two others to add to the list of sources proclaiming Sidious's dominance.
For the "Darkness beyond darkness": this means what exactly? That Sidious truly was one evil, dark, and twisted mofo? Yeah, that totally sets him apart from all the other good and caring Sith out there...
For the event horizon and Black Hole nonsense: clearly you can understand the metaphorical nature of this part of the quote, yes? Now, what exactly is the event horizon in respect to the Black Hole? I'll answer for you: it's the point where once passed, nothing can escape [from the Black Hole]. Now let's look at the context. Darkness beyond darkness; indicative of Sidious' sheer evil. Did it not occur to you, that the metaphor represents Sidious' hold on people? That once he has you in his grasp, it's impossible to escape?
Please, ambiguous quotes prove nothing.
The fact that George Lucas has stated that balancing the Force requires removing Palpatine out of the equation is also sufficient. The message is irrefutable and incontrovertible: as far as LFL is concerned, he is the strongest Sith ever.
Nice misinterpretation. 👆
GL simply claims that destroying the Sith would balance the force.
Since I'm going to use your methods on here, there's no need to refute your rebuttal regarding the individual sources since it is clearly the underlying message.
Yet apparently you don't quite understand my methods, given you're treating my argument in regards to canonicity in the same light with your's in regard to interpretation.
Now you can claim that such is the underlying message all you want, but until you properly analyse the quotes and fully explain how they fit your interpretation, your claims hold no water.
We've used logic to rule out political accomplishments since the statement was made during the beginning of AotC. If you wish to challenge it, then the burden of proof is on you. Prove that it was referring to political achievement.
No. You supplied the quotes to make a point, meaning the burden of proof is entirely on you. You need to accept that greatness is measured in accomplishments when someone is given such a title, and accomplishments =/= power.
The burden of proof is on you. Simply stating as much does not make it so. Prove that it is referring in respect to the past.
As explained, the burden of proof is on you, not me. prove that the statement perfectly fits your interpretation, or drop the point.
Prove that she'd excel at it. That would require prodigious Force power to be evenly dispensed.
No, it really wouldn't, all it would require is some form of correlation. Which, there would be, given that all applications of the force are reliant on one's ability with it, which is transferable through all abilities.
Corran Horn is an immensely powerful Jedi capable of conjuring unparalleled illusions; yet he's absolutely terrible at telekinesis. Power =/= excellence in everything.
The Horn Family's inability to properly use TK is not the rule, but the exception. It's made pretty clear to be quite the anomaly as far as force powers and force users go, and the fact that you'd solely rely on it underlies your inability to counter the point.
Now, amping up one's speed with the force is taught to padawans, is a simple technique, and not one Jedi has shown to have any trouble with it. GL considers such a thing something that all Jedi can do given that when describing Jedi, his description has them be warrior monks that can block blasterfire (which wouldn't be achieved without force speed) and act as one man armies.
Occam's Razor would absolutely indicate that it's a standard ability, that all force users can use, so if you want to argue that Traya would somehow not be able to use the power properly, the burden of proof is on you.
Foresight =/= excellence in everything.
Foresight isn't all Traya has. She has great offensive capabilities, great ability with cloaking herself, and phenomenal healing abilities. She's displayed as a force titan on many levels.
For example, a deer might be able to see the hunter shoot the arrow -- doesn't mean it can dodge it.
What is it with you and your false analogies? A deer doesn't draw on an innate ability that would be applicable both with eyesight and reactions + agility. Force users, on the other hand, do draw off of their innate ability for multiple things; all applications of the force in fact.
No. It never says that. It says that "with the help of the Emperor's mindfogging powers, Imperial engineers buried the Lusankya..." -- it never states that he erased the memories of the engineers. Looking at the sentence makes it clear that his mind fogging powers "assisted" the engineers.
Don't make silly assumptions. I was referring to a different quote, where it's stated that Sidious removed their memories after they had buried the Star Destroyer.
Logic concludes that he did so by erasing the minds of the witnesses. A cloaking device is out of the question as Coruscant is entirely populated; people would obviously see the "grave" and ask questions.
We know that it was buried in a mountainous region, which would be vastly different to the entirely populated city districts. You don't even know if there would have been any witnesses and all, as for all you know the area could have been entirely isolated.
The notion that Palpatine murdered potential witnesses is out of the question, as then people would really start asking questions. Removing the memories from the witnesses in a heavily populated district is the most efficient and logical explanation.
You don't even know if there were witnesses. The fact that it was buried in the Manarai Mountain Sector rather than the heavily populated commercial district would support that. For all we know, the entire Mountains were fully owned by the Empire, and completely isolated from the city.
Again, it's explicitly stated that he mindwiped the engineers that buried the ship... and that's all that's said. Your theory is just that: a theory, and logic isn't with it.
Essentially, your pro-Sion arguments are fundamentally flawed. The premise you make your outrageous claims on have all been brought into question. You've yet to substantiate his skill. Saying that he was the head of a Sith assassins sect is ambiguous. You can't proclaim him superior or even a rival to Darth Sidious based on that fact, because you're comparing apples with oranges and lacking the methods by which to complete the comparison.
LMAO. Firstly, I never compared his prowess with Sidious'. You simply said that it's not ever indicated that his prowess was any good, and I was simply correcting that silly claim.
But, if I had been, that would not be comparing apples and oranges. Now, if, I say, were to make out that Sion was an extremely skilled plumber, and compared that to Sidious' prowess, well then, that would be the case. Sion was the deadliest Sith Assasin; a group that were Masters of multiple forms of combat. That, plus his obvious lightsaber ability, and he's quite clearly got great battle prowess, which can be compared with Sidious'.
Likewise, his speed is also called into question -- whereas Sidious was more than capable of moving "faster than the eye could follow" in the Darth Maul journals.
As was TPM Kenobi in TPM...
He was also able to overwhelm three of "the finest swordsmen in the Order's history" in ten seconds thanks to his inhuman speed.
And Sion's slicing off of Kreia's hand in one move through pure speed alone is easily on par with that.
And he was able to replicate this feat in Dark Empire, whilst generating waves of energy that butchered nearby Imperial personnel according to the audiobook (according to LS).
That's actually bullshit. Yes, he moves faster than the eyes can see, but no, the idea that his speed was able to generate waves of energy that killed nearby Imperial personnel is a lie.
His proficiency at Sith lightning allowed him to murder fifty stormtroopers in a short period of time;
Greatest display of power, yet would be completely ineffective against Sion.
reduce three powerful Sith cultists who created "Darth Maul 2.0" (who in turn was able to challenge Darth Vader) to charred bones and ash in one gout of Force lightning -- before Vader could react;
The bit about the Sith Cultists creating Darth Maul #2? Irrelevant. Their adeptness at an obscure branch of Sith Alchemy speaks nothing for their resistance against lightning.
and lastly, even as he approached death in the inferior body of his final clone, where each act of the Force would bring him closer to death, he generated the power to easily kill Rayf Ysanna and mortally wound Master Brand.
How exactly does the fact that each act of the force brought him closer to his death mean anything, Gideon? You commit the irrelevant misdirection fallacy way too much. It simply meant that his body couldn't;t handle force usages very well, but it in now way detracts from his actual power at the time. And no, killing one average Jedi and mortally wounding the other isn't special in the least in a World where people can cheat death and use the force to destroy entire races.
The Telos Holocron reveals that he had the power to "murder opponents from a great distance".
Being able to use the force froma distance isn't exclusive to Sidious. Plo Koon was able to telepathically contact another Jedi whilst lightyears away from her.
In conclusion, he's the most powerful Sith to have ever existed. He's well in excess of Darth Sion and Darth Traya and there is very little you can or have done to prove otherwise. Perhaps we'll continue this when you bring more to the table.
No, he's really not. Nihilus, Sion, Bane, Nadd, Exar Kun, and numerous Ancients clearly possess more power, and it would be up to you to bring more to the table. Flawed theories and ambiguous text doesn't cut it, I'm afraid. Though, I'm expecting an appeal to majority any time now.
Originally posted by Ultra Omega
No, he's really not. Nihilus, Sion, Bane, Nadd, Exar Kun, and numerous Ancients clearly possess more power, and it would be up to you to bring more to the table. Flawed theories and ambiguous text doesn't cut it, I'm afraid. Though, I'm expecting an appeal to majority any time now.
No, since I've made it explicitly clear that I won't be arguing the case until you bring some measure of evidence to the table. All you've done is asserted that Palpatine is inferior than the above individuals, and you haven't proved it at all. Get back to me when you've got some evidence.
Nihilus - mere presence kills and bends beings to his will, can cause destruction on a planetwide scale quickly and with little effort, and has a cosmic level awareness. Has also displayed incredible ability with using multiple abilities at once.
Sion - pure speed, damage resistance, and cheating death.
Nadd - his infinitely lesser self (spirit) could force dominate Masters from halfway across the Galaxy, crush giant statues into millions of pieces, and instantly mend Exar's body after it had been seemingly damaged beyond repair.
Exar - so strong in the darkside that the ground trembled when he walked, was able to freeze thousands, and drain thousands, both effortlessly.
Ancients - a Low Tier Ancient wiped out the life of an entire planet in one force attack.
Bane - Given his pure status within the force (Sith Chosen One), the fact that his power was described as far greater than that of the entire Brotherhood of Darkness, and his showings (which I'll get on to) I'd say Bane is clearly the more powerful of the two.
Take for instance his near complete destruction of Ruusan. He was able to quite simply absorb the power of the other then current BoD Masters in the form of lightning (which puts to shame Corran Horn's gift of energy absorption), which he partially was taking forcefully, so that he could focus their entire combined power into himself (remember that Bane's force powers was stated as being far greater than that of the entire BoD, which would consist of all of these mentioned Masters + more) and unleash their power by himself. Now, rather than be consumed by such a level of power (which was described as being able to consume anything and everything in its path, and would have destroyed the whole of Ruusan if the Sith Masters had stuck with the ritual), he was able to fully harness it, and rather than lose control over it, he was able to direct it on a planet wide scale.
Or, of course, you could consider his BotS incarnation, which grows in power heavily, to the point where he's able to nudge the moon Dxun towards Onderon for a pretty considerable distance.
Now, factor in his fighting smarts, as well as his orbalisk armour, and the fact that he was able to contend with Kas'im, possibly the greatest swordsman ever up until his time on even terms in saber combat, and you have Bane destroying Sidious.
He's likely on par with the Luke Skywalkers of the SWU, and he's clearly beyond Sidious.
He's likely on par with the Luke Skywalkers of the SWU, and he's clearly beyond Sidious. [/B]
Except Sidious is #1 in the minds of GL, hence all of the canon sources and texts. You already look like a buffoon because you can't win a debate, nor can you debate at all. You look even more pathetic when you constantly argue with canon. Nobody cares about your opinion Noobaris, otherwise you wouldn't have been banned 10+ times. All you're doing now is making everybody laugh.
Prove all of it.
Nihilus - mere presence kills and bends beings to his will, can cause destruction on a planetwide scale quickly and with little effort, and has a cosmic level awareness. Has also displayed incredible ability with using multiple abilities at once.
The scene is non-canon. Prove it.
Sion - pure speed, damage resistance, and cheating death.
1.) Darth Sidious has demonstrated greater speed. You've yet to prove Sion can move faster than the eye can see.
2.) Sidious's Dun Moch and manipulation skills (especially since he's completely aware about the events of Malachor V) are sufficient to eliminate this.
3.) Sidious's Dun Moch and manipulation skills (especially since he's completely aware about the events of Malachor V) are sufficient to eliminate this.
Nadd - his infinitely lesser self (spirit) could force dominate Masters from halfway across the Galaxy, crush giant statues into millions of pieces, and instantly mend Exar's body after it had been seemingly damaged beyond repair.
1.) The potency of Palpatine's spirit required the "Force and all the Jedi before us" to hold it in the netherworld.
2.) Palpatine can hurl three automobile sized Senate pods around like wiffle balls, without any trouble.
3.) Kudos for Nadd being a Ghostly First Aid Kit.
Ancients - a Low Tier Ancient wiped out the life of an entire planet in one force attack.
1.) Prove that they could all do it.
2.) Palpatine demonstrated a refined control for the siphoning of energy on a galactic scale, and Force Storms possess the power to "rip surfaces off of worlds".
Bane - Given his pure status within the force (Sith Chosen One), the fact that his power was described as far greater than that of the entire Brotherhood of Darkness, and his showings (which I'll get on to) I'd say Bane is clearly the more powerful of the two.
1.) Prove that Bane was the "Sith Chosen One". 😉
2.) The Dark Side Sourcebook says that Darth Sidious was the most powerful of Bane's Order. Which includes Bane.
3.) The Essential Guide to the Force says that he is the "grim culmination of a thousand years of Sith philosophy and teachings".
4.) Sidious was the "unbalance" in the Force that required elimination at the hands of the true Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker. Cue the RotS novelization quotes regarding his status as a "black hole of the Force".
Good luck. 🙂