Classic MM vs. CURRENT LT

Originally posted by Mr Master
As for the battle:

LT is second to the Toaa/god,
but just like Toaa/god allowed,

Reed to devise a machine that managed to used the LT's powers against the LT,
Rune defy the LT's ruling over the IG (it was impossible for Warlock)
Protege copy the LT's power,
Scathan becoming an equal to the LT,
Thanos to gain enough power to actually absorb the LT,

just like that,

Toaa/god (Jim Shooter & Al Milgrom at the time)
allowed Beyonder & MM to be more powerful than the LT. 🙂

So now and forever ------ Classic Beyonder & MM > LT

Originally posted by Air Legend
This is just terrible logic. If the writers state and show MM being greater than the LT, then MM is greater than the LT.

Originally posted by quanchi112
As always mr master comes in here and clears things up. Before this story and since this story Lt has been 2nd in command. He hasnt grown in power but has always been number 2 outside a few stories and this was one of them. 🙂

He hasn't grown in power and yet he holds two megaverses in his hands where there once where no megaverses. He also has always been superior to the beyonder. Hence the retcon.

Originally posted by quanchi112
As always mr master comes in here and clears things up. Before this story and since this story Lt has been 2nd in command. He hasnt grown in power but has always been number 2 outside a few stories and this was one of them. 🙂

And for this fight he's not going to "hold back"?

What does that right there tell you?

"I stepped down from my number two spot for that story, but I'm not stepping down this time."

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He hasn't grown in power and yet he holds two megaverses in his hands where there once where no megaverses. He also has always been superior to the beyonder. Hence the retcon.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So for this story he "held back" or something to allow the other two their day in the sun?

And for this fight he's not going to "hold back"?

What does that right there tell you?

"I stepped down from my number two spot for that story, but I'm not stepping down this time."

Originally posted by quanchi112
He couldnt stop the Beyonder the only one who could was the Molecule Man in that story. Where do you get this he held back stuff anyways?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Molecule man was no where near as powerful as the beyonder in that story. He even says so himself. He says, that The beyonder is as far beyond me as I am beyond you, talking to captain america.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He hasn't grown in power and yet he holds two megaverses in his hands where there once where no megaverses. He also has always been superior to the beyonder. Hence the retcon.

Actually Nvr may be onto something, this is something I just realized, and I may be wrong, --but--

Living Tribunal absorbed Protege after Protege got muzzled by Scathan, if that's the case, then Living Tribunal's power "post-Protege" would have increased over what it was pre-Protege, wouldn't it?

At least that's what came to my mind when re-studying the Protege incident. I'm not saying that's the case for certain, but it's something that popped in my head when looking over their battle again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How has he grown in power since the retcon? Just becuz the marvel universe expaned in theory doesnt mean he grew in power. Prove he grew in power? Remember the marvel universe expanding isnt proof.

It's really simple. The beyonder was everything outside of the marvel verse. Which would be what is now the omniverse. The only thing the beyonder wasn't was the multiverse. To which The LT wasn't even the most powerful being. Now the LT sits in judgement over the omniverse, Which would include everything the Beyonder Was. The LT sits OVER everything the beyonder was AND the Spine of the Marvel U. Thus is power and authority is greater. And yes, His power comes directly from his authority.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Actually Nvr may be onto something, this is something I just realized, and I may be wrong, --but--

Living Tribunal absorbed Protege after Protege got muzzled by Scathan, if that's the case, then Living Tribunal's power "post-Protege" would have increased over what it was pre-Protege, wouldn't it?

At least that's what came to my mind when re-studying the Protege incident.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's really simple. The beyonder was everything outside of the marvel verse. Which would be what is now the omniverse. The only thing the beyonder wasn't was the multiverse. To which The LT wasn't even the most powerful being. Now the LT sits in judgement over the omniverse, Which would include everything the Beyonder Was. The LT sits OVER everything the beyonder was AND the Spine of the Marvel U. Thus is power and authority is greater. And yes, His power comes directly from his authority.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That happens in the future and is speculative at best. That story tells us that Scathan is in Lt's leagues as well.

There is no such thing as the Future or the past to the LT. Just moments and incidents to be studied and judge.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is no such thing as the Future or the past to the LT. Just moments and incidents to be studied and judge.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He hasn't grown in power and yet he holds two megaverses in his hands where there once where no megaverses.

Beyonder was the embodiment of a Universe that was far greater than two megaverses,
Beyonder was Infinite,
his energy continued to create reality across the infinite beyond:

"Meeting NO resistance in the infinite beyond"
................................................................................

That was one Universe,
to think that this expanded even further into a Multiverse:

"Beyonder, the entity that embodied all the substance of Another Multiverse"

Ouch.
.......................................................................

The Molecule Man was able to challenge that dogs, think about it,
MM went toe to toe with the Beyonder and held his own for a while.

He lost of course but still, it speaks volumes,
Beyonder even admitted that for a second, Owen had a chance:

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He also has always been superior to the beyonder. Hence the retcon.

Not between 84' & 90'

In 1984 during the first Secret Wars series,
Owen Reece unlocked his potential,
and became the most powerful being in the Multiverse,
second only to the Beyonder.

In 1990 MM was de-powered in the retcon,
but MM was always very powerful, Multiversal in fact even in his Post-retcon faze.

In fact,
the LT himself said
that POST-Retcon Owen Reece is one of the most powerful beings in All Creation:

And that's his passive personality,

his other personality (Molecule Man) dwarfs that when he's released

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder was the embodiment of a Universe that was far greater than two megaverses,
Beyonder was Infinite,
his energy continued to create reality across the infinite beyond:

"Meeting NO resistance in the [B]infinite beyond"
................................................................................

That was one Universe,
to think that this expanded even further into a Multiverse:

"Beyonder, the entity that embodied all the substance of Another Multiverse"

Ouch.
.......................................................................

The Molecule Man was able to challenge that dogs, think about it,
MM went toe to toe with the Beyonder and held his own for a while.

He lost of course but still, it speaks volumes,
Beyonder even admitted that for a second, Owen had a chance:

Not between 84' & 90'

In 1984 during the first Secret Wars series,
Owen Reece unlocked his potential,
and became the most powerful being in the Multiverse,
second only to the Beyonder.

In 1990 MM was de-powered in the retcon,
but MM was always very powerful, Multiversal in fact even in his Post-retcon faze.

In fact,
the LT himself said
that POST-Retcon Owen Reece is one of the most powerful beings in All Creation:

And that's his passive personality,

his other personality (Molecule Man) dwarfs that when he's released

[/B]

💃

Originally posted by quanchi112
He couldnt stop the Beyonder the only one who could was the Molecule Man in that story. Where do you get this he held back stuff anyways?

The retcon says "It was never really that way." That's the nature of what a retcon is.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Honoring the nature of the retcon.

The retcon says "It was never really that way." That's the nature of what a retcon is.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Which is why it is PRE-RETCON MM.

Precisely.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
Which is why it is PRE-RETCON MM.

LT now is fully backed by TOAA. To say that MM wins is to use the pre-mm retcon LT, which is ignoring the fact that its current LT is the one in the fight and not pre mm retcon lt.