KH Sephiroth v.s. Dante

Originally posted by Burning thought
no because there are not rules that make a diffrent to Kain in other worlds and most matches consist of a nutral environment, but sure if a being has an alternate world, Like Jedah has his Maijigen (spelling) then its truth that Kain would have to play by Jedahs rules in his own dimension, it makes sense

its not Kain who is TOAA, its Amy herring, TOAA is simply the embodiment and overall avatar sort of, of Marvel, wheras Amy Herring and the developers of legacy of kain games are Nosgoths TOAA and have stated officially Time is immutable in Nosgoth, its not kain who is doing it, its the world itself and the Developers, Living tribunal cannot overrule this rule set down by a creator.

If theres a rule in another universe set down and officiially stated by developers of the game then its the same, if in another gaming world gravity is diffrent then kain cannot do anything about it ofc

Even if time is immutable, why do u think LT wouldnt beable to kill Kain in nosgoth? That is assuming each person has all his powers while transferring in different worlds.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Even if time is immutable, why do u think LT wouldnt beable to kill Kain in nosgoth? That is assuming each person has all his powers while transferring in different worlds.

it means time cannot be changed, sometimes time will even delete an oppressor who tries to change it or kills them, or destroys an object that is trying to bother time.

this means LT will not be able to kill Kain, simply because Kain is never killed in time, in Nosgoth he simply cannot be killed, luckily in games VS this does not make him indestructable completly because he can still be defeaten and overall time cannot delete his opponents because its based around his world, his scion of balance power doesnt allow him to die however but he could be deleted, however in Nosgoth, he is never deleted from excistence, so he never can be deleted. In Nosgoth Kain cannot be deleted or destroyed and neither can other characters who have excisted, LT would not be able to influence the world

ofc outside of Nosgoth LT would easily delete Kain with less than a whim i bet

technically in KMC the rules say that characters have all their abilities in any world unless specified ortherwise

Why does LT need time to kill Kain? He can destroy universes with gestures, so he can either destroy kains body, or encase him where he cannot escape.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Why does LT need time to kill Kain? He can destroy universes with gestures, so he can either destroy kains body, or encase him where he cannot escape.

what are you talking about, in Nosgoth, time just wouldnt let things happen to kain, nothing would happen to him......because it didnt happen to him in time, thats how things work.....time is immutable, theres nothing LT could do in Nosgoth

Originally posted by Burning thought
what are you talking about, in Nosgoth, time just wouldnt let things happen to kain, nothing would happen to him......because it didnt happen to him in time, thats how things work.....time is immutable, theres nothing LT could do in Nosgoth

I don't think you truly understand.

Originally posted by SaintSmurph
But LT is above such restrictions... LT has complete and utter control of reality.

I don't think you truly understand.

So how does Kain do ANYTHING in nosgoth if he doesnt exist in time? He cant even pick up a glass because then it wouldnt have happened. Kinda strange, can u show me the quote of her saying nosgoth is immutable?

oh i see so he can slap TOAA into the ground? hmm didnt know that, prob cuz i didnt understand

No because TOAA is the marvel company itself, unless the LT character can jump out and blow up the marvel company. Marvel company has control over the Marvel verse

Originally posted by Terryc250
So how does Kain do ANYTHING in nosgoth if he doesnt exist in time? He cant even pick up a glass because then it wouldnt have happened. Kinda strange, can u show me the quote of her saying nosgoth is immutable?

Kain can do things in time, but he never dies in time, so he cannot die, he does excist in time. Time cannot be changed any way, shape or form and Kain never dies nor do most of the characters, and definatley not by the LT in which case he cannot effect anything

certainly

http://www.thelostworlds.net/Defiance/Question_and_Answer_with_Jen,_Richard,_and_Kyle.html

these developers say time is immutable, i think its said in another one as well somewhere

All it says is time is immutable, meaning history cant be changed.. where are u getting that kain doesnt exist in time?

Originally posted by Terryc250
All it says is time is immutable, meaning history cant be changed.. where are u getting that kain doesnt exist in time?

i was not saying he does not excist in time, its because he excsits in Nosgoth time and time cannot be changed that means LT cannot do anything....

it means LT will try and do something but because he never does, no effect happens, because Kain is part of time, the time will never change so LT cannot kill kain because Kain cannot die....he never does in time and since time cannot be changed LT can do nothing, understand?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Does Pyron even have matter manipulation? I know he made robots, but that really isnt matter manipulation, Sephiroth created the silver haired men, and i dont consider him having matter manipulation, changing the molecular scale and element scale is matter manipulation, like turning dirt into gold, or a dog into a fish, or altering someone genes. There was an old xmen comic i read years ago with Zeus i think, and he temporarily turned off a mutants mutant genes, so he was a regular human

Even if Pyron is capable of crushing a planet with his pinky that really isnt a skyfather feat since ive seen many heralds easily create supernovas and blow up many planets, when sentry and genis were fighting, they were blowing up planets left and right, hulk has even one punch a meteor twice the size of earth before.

I was giving feats of other skyfathers as well, just mostly odin cuz hes the most popular, and most shown.

Hyperstorm only lasted a couple pages because of the Plot Device; in reality, he shouldve only lasted a panel.

And btw, Kain wouldnt last against the LT, he would be erased from existence in an instant

White Crown of the Phoenix has held the universe in her palms, and amputated time, and changing fate, there was a story when scott summers chose not to be with emma frost and all these bad things happened, then the Phoenix turned back time and altered his mind to get with emma frost.

LT is above the Phoenix, he is the judge of the Omniverse, that includes every single multiverse, every universe, and every dimension.

LT once turned the silver surfer into a universe so he can experience godhood.

He erased a whole universe with a thought

He would take nosgoth out of existance just as easily

2. First of all, the Hulk feat is due mostly because of him being catapaulted at the meteor at high speeds, it wasn't his strength. Can't comment on the Sentry and Genis thing, don't know about it. As for the supernova thing, Pyron is a moving supernova. He can create stars(when he is in the OVA, weak Pyron, they are about 10-20 times bigger than him, so their size prolly depends on his, as he creates them from his body).

3. The whole destroying galaxies thing was from Odin, I know that.

4. Hmmm...don't know, never read it.

5. No shit.

6. Phoenix of the White Crown>>Galactus>>>>>>ANY Skyfather.

7. Okay...and?

8. Alright...

9. He also held to Megaverses in his palms.

10. Yep.

Oh and BT, LT wouldn't have to be in Nosgoth to destroy it. 😄

Originally posted by Burning thought
oh i see so he can slap TOAA into the ground and overrule him? hmm didnt know that, prob cuz i didnt understand

If you mean the developers... Kain could just as easily be transported out of Nosgoth by the LT.

Needless to say, Living Tribunal would never lose. And, even if his win is simply taking away all of Kain's powers, it would still be a win.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Yeah, in his mortal form he separated Bishamon from the armor and sword that were fused to him body and soul(they possessed him and turned him into a demon) with his energies, he didn't even have to really try. He can turn planets into pure energy, absorbing it completely, in other words he turned matter into non-matter.

2. First of all, the Hulk feat is due mostly because of him being catapaulted at the meteor at high speeds, it wasn't his strength. Can't comment on the Sentry and Genis thing, don't know about it. As for the supernova thing, Pyron is a moving supernova. He can create stars(when he is in the OVA, weak Pyron, they are about 10-20 times bigger than him, so their size prolly depends on his, as he creates them from his body).

3. The whole destroying galaxies thing was from Odin, I know that.

4. Hmmm...don't know, never read it.

5. No shit.

6. Phoenix of the White Crown>>Galactus>>>>>>ANY Skyfather.

7. Okay...and?

8. Alright...

9. He also held to Megaverses in his palms.

10. Yep.

Oh and BT, LT wouldn't have to be in Nosgoth to destroy it. 😄

I wasnt even talking to you in half of that so i dont know why u gave me replies

Thats not really matter manipulating.. when u absorb things it becomes apart of you. Can he actually like CHANGE molecules into another molecule, not seperating things, but actually changing things, like turn a fish into a monkey or something.

Ive yet to see that, our sun is considered a small star, and our sun is well over 100 times the size of earth

No i said Surtur who is weaker then Odin has destroyed countless galaxies and Surtur is weaker then Odin, Seth has destroyed many galaxies, and he is only like a mid tier skyfather

it means LT will try and do something but because he never does, no effect happens, because Kain is part of time, the time will never change so LT cannot kill kain because Kain cannot die....he never does in time and since time cannot be changed LT can do nothing, understand?

I think ur one not understanding that quote..

"it means LT will try and do something but because he never does, no effect happens" What?? What the creators said by "Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't." Means the PAST/HISTORY cannot be changed because you cant go back in time and change the past because that never happened. It says nothing about the PRESENT and the FUTURE, the future has not happened yet.

"because Kain is part of time" huh?? U said earlier that kain doesnt exist in time

Anyway, LT will just sit outside of Nosgoth, snap his fingers, and Nosgoth will be gone

Originally posted by SaintSmurph
I can't decide which scenario would elicit a bigger label of "retard"- if you actually mean to compare Kain to TOAA, or if you just have an incredibly crappy analogy.

If you mean the developers... Kain could just as easily be transported out of Nosgoth by the LT.

Needless to say, Living Tribunal would never lose. And, even if his win is simply taking away all of Kain's powers, it would still be a win.

TOAA is writers, Amy Herring, Jack etc etc are writers, your obviously not getting it and your falling short and phailing because of it......

this is to do with the world not kain

and no he could not because he never is transported out of Nosgoth, you phail again, he never is and so he never will be, your fanboyism of Marvel and its overpowered LT is almost sickening, to think this thing could take on a developer? lawls at that, Amy herring would spill ink over all his comics....owned...

but seriously, he would lose....he wont die no...but hell lose because he cant do anything and cannot effect Nosgoth 🙂

Originally posted by Terryc250
I think ur one not understanding that quote..

"it means LT will try and do something but because he never does, no effect happens" What?? What the creators said by "Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't." Means the PAST/HISTORY cannot be changed because you cant go back in time and change the past because that never happened. It says nothing about the PRESENT and the FUTURE, the future has not happened yet.

"because Kain is part of time" huh?? U said earlier that kain doesnt exist in time

Anyway, LT will just sit outside of Nosgoth, snap his fingers, and Nosgoth will be gone

no i think your simply not comprehending what ime saying

Time in the world is immutable....that means LT cannot do anything in the past or the present as its happening and because LT is not canon in LOKverse he cannot effect the future either, nor can any non LOK character, its possible in the future a LOK character may do something but since LT is not canon in the first place if he was in the LOKverse nothing would happen...

plz quote me where i said Kain does not excist in time, i dont remember saying that

no because Nosgoth has never actually been gone, so in time and according to canonology Nosgoth can never be taken by a non Nosgoth being either, he would still be trying to effect the power of a writer, which ofc he would fail at....the only being that could possibly technically destroy Nosgoth is another real being, so if TOAA (the writers) ran down to the studio and ripped up and destroyed everything to do with LOKverse then they woudl effectively destroy it, but their comic book character cannot overthrow a creator ime afraid, but effectively that would not work either, the whole of the Marvel universe would go into a big freeze because their writers are carted off to jail 😄

Are you seriously comparing Kain to the Living Tribunal?

Furthermore, why? In a Sephiroth vs. Dante thread?

What are you talking about? It says the HISTORY/PAST cannot be changed, it says nothing about the present or future.

"If Ariel enters the Reaver in the BO era, does this alter the events of Soul Reaver?"
meaning - If Ariel came to the past would it alter the present events of the Soul Reaver?

"No. Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't. Jen, Richard, and Kyle mention the film 12 Monkeys at this point as an example of this concept. While some things (like Ariel's role at the Spirit Forge) might seem out of place, it will all make sense in the end."

Meaning - Theres no way they wouldve changed the history because the history is already how it is, and that never happened in the past.

Just liek the film "12 Monkeys" they try to send the protagonist to the past to prevent the outbreak of a virus, yet in the end, everything works out exactly as the future, and nothing is changed. (meaning theres no way the present can be altered or else it wouldve already been altered, and the virus wouldnt have happened in thr first place)

This says NOTHING about the future, in the movie 12 monkeys they can discover a cure and destroy the virus, and the virus will be gone, however, from the past to present, CANNOT be altered because it already happened.

Originally posted by Terryc250
What are you talking about? It says the HISTORY/PAST cannot be changed, it says nothing about the present or future.

"If Ariel enters the Reaver in the BO era, does this alter the events of Soul Reaver?"
meaning - If Ariel came to the past would it alter the present events of the Soul Reaver?

"No. Time in the world of Legacy of Kain is basically immutable - those who travel through it can't change history, because they didn't. Jen, Richard, and Kyle mention the film 12 Monkeys at this point as an example of this concept. While some things (like Ariel's role at the Spirit Forge) might seem out of place, it will all make sense in the end."

Meaning - Theres no way they wouldve changed the history because the history is already how it is, and that never happened in the past.

Just liek the film "12 Monkeys" they try to send the protagonist to the past to prevent the outbreak of a virus, yet in the end, everything works out exactly as the future, and nothing is changed. (meaning theres no way the present can be altered or else it wouldve already been altered, and the virus wouldnt have happened in thr first place)

This says NOTHING about the future, in the movie 12 monkeys they can discover a cure and destroy the virus, and the virus will be gone, however, from the past to present, CANNOT be altered because it already happened.

Kain cannot die in Nosgoth because he is the scion of Balance, time itself would not let him die, simple.....also you lost the point where i said the Living Tribunal is nothing to do with the Canon of LOK so he could not destroy kain in the present or future either because he will never excist in the future or present, nor will any of his powers excist such, so how can something that does not excist in the present or future affect Kain or anything in the LOKverse, there is no way in the future or present kain will be destroyed by LT so it will not happen in time....

what you are not getting is that Kain and especially Raziel are stuck in a loop, i dont know if its said in that FAQ or a diffrent one, but their trapped in a time loop to play out their fates (Raziel certainly is anyway) over and over again, which means the loop is a loop of time that cannot be broken, So LT would not be able to touch Raziel, also kain is the scion so in time he will not die either because of this.

Originally posted by Soljer
Are you seriously comparing Kain to the Living Tribunal?

Furthermore, why? In a Sephiroth vs. Dante thread?

1. ime not comparing Kain to anything.....read the thread before assuming please

2. not sure, whats it mean to you? this thread has been finshed afaik and the conversation has gone from skyfathers to this

Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain cannot die in Nosgoth because he is the scion of Balance, time itself would not let him die, simple.....also you lost the point where i said the Living Tribunal is nothing to do with the Canon of LOK so he could not destroy kain in the present or future either because he will never excist in the future or present, nor will any of his powers excist such, so how can something that does not excist in the present or future affect Kain or anything in the LOKverse, there is no way in the future or present kain will be destroyed by LT so it will not happen in time....

what you are not getting is that Kain and especially Raziel are stuck in a loop, i dont know if its said in that FAQ or a diffrent one, but their trapped in a time loop to play out their fates (Raziel certainly is anyway) over and over again, which means the loop is a loop of time that cannot be broken, So LT would not be able to touch Raziel, also kain is the scion so in time he will not die either because of this.

1. ime not comparing Kain to anything.....read the thread before assuming please

2. not sure, whats it mean to you? this thread has been finshed afaik and the conversation has gone from skyfathers to this

Ur not understanding the logic used in Games "Versus" Forum, we assume both characters have all of their abilities, if LOK and Marvel universe merged, Nosgoth would just be another reality, and wiped out instantly.

he will never excist in the future or present, nor will any of his powers excist such, so how can something that does not excist in the present or future affect Kain or anything in the LOKverse

If LT was sent into nosgoth with all of his powers, he would erase nosgoth.

what you are not getting is that Kain and especially Raziel are stuck in a loop, i dont know if its said in that FAQ or a diffrent one, but their trapped in a time loop to play out their fates (Raziel certainly is anyway) over and over again, which means the loop is a loop of time that cannot be broken, So LT would not be able to touch Raziel, also kain is the scion so in time he will not die either because of this.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Ur not understanding the logic used in Games "Versus" Forum, we assume both characters have all of their abilities, if LOK and Marvel universe merged, Nosgoth would just be another reality, and wiped out instantly.

omg, NONE of characters we use in versus battles, existed in any eachother universes, we use our imaginations, information, and feats, to determine winners,

If LT was sent into nosgoth with all of his powers, he would erase nosgoth.

Alright, but we are using the "what if" factor here.. not storyline, these battles are non-cannon..
so after they play out their fates, kain wins, he rules over nosgoth or whatever, now what if LT shows up? Then nosgoth is doomed. Kain cannot handle a being at that high of a caliber who is able to wipe out realitys and universes on a whim.

no your not understanding it....not every unvierse and world has the same rules nor do they have the same specific rules LOKverse has, and this one rule would basically protect all beings in it, who are apart of the LOKverse from any others because their fates cannot be changed.

if Marvelverse and LOkverse merged why would it be wiped out? that doesnt make sense, why would anyone want to wipe it out, also this would only be possible if TOAA and Amy herring both agreed on this, however that means there would be two creators in one verse so no, technically even as part of Marvel Amy herring still being the creator of LOKverse would still have these rules of Nosgoth set in place, for example ill use your own example, you say Mephisto has control in his own realm, well Amy herring has control in this Nosgoth, only diffrence would be Amy is a creator like TOAA is one, in which case not even TOAA himself could do anything unless for some reason Marvel bought the rights to LOK, not going to happen lol

yes so they do have all their abilities, LT does have all his abilities, but does that mean the rules set down by the omnipotent creator in their own realm is not equel somehow to will of TOAA who could delete LT with a thought...dont be foolish, just because LT has all his powers does not mean the rules of the world means nothing...

what rubbish are you talking, ive been on this forum for a long time, i think i quite rightly realise we are using characters from other universes, this point means nothing.....

no he would only not be erased because he is apparently not apart of time, with all his powers which ofc in a VS he would have, otherwise this would not be a debate he would just be a yellow giant floating without any power and would probably vanish all together witohut TOAA but no, i understand the case, unfortunatley he is going to be trying to overrule a specific rule of the universe created by the creator of that universe, LT does not >>>a creator of an excistence like he would not >>> TOAA

no what you dont realsie is that Kain throughout the history of Nosgoth is set on a path created by the Wheel of fate, LT is not part of this path which means Kain cannot be deleted by LT....no because if LT somehow for the sake of a KMC battle showed up, he would even with all his powers still would not be able to break a rule created specifically by the creators, so he would not be able to break kain off that path.

he wipes out realities and unvierses of Marvel, Marvels time is not immutable apprently either, history can be changed. Nosgoth is diffrent, its simply lucky for the Tribunal that if he entered Nosgoth he would not be completly deleted thanks to not being part of time anyway

Originally posted by Burning thought
no your not understanding it....not every unvierse and world has the same rules nor do they have the same specific rules LOKverse has, and this one rule would basically protect all beings in it, who are apart of the LOKverse from any others because their fates cannot be changed.

if Marvelverse and LOkverse merged why would it be wiped out? that doesnt make sense, why would anyone want to wipe it out, also this would only be possible if TOAA and Amy herring both agreed on this, however that means there would be two creators in one verse so no, technically even as part of Marvel Amy herring still being the creator of LOKverse would still have these rules of Nosgoth set in place, for example ill use your own example, you say Mephisto has control in his own realm, well Amy herring has control in this Nosgoth, only diffrence would be Amy is a creator like TOAA is one, in which case not even TOAA himself could do anything unless for some reason Marvel bought the rights to LOK, not going to happen lol

yes so they do have all their abilities, LT does have all his abilities, but does that mean the rules set down by the omnipotent creator in their own realm is not equel somehow to will of TOAA who could delete LT with a thought...dont be foolish, just because LT has all his powers does not mean the rules of the world means nothing...

what rubbish are you talking, ive been on this forum for a long time, i think i quite rightly realise we are using characters from other universes, this point means nothing.....

no he would only not be erased because he is apparently not apart of time, with all his powers which ofc in a VS he would have, otherwise this would not be a debate he would just be a yellow giant floating without any power and would probably vanish all together witohut TOAA but no, i understand the case, unfortunatley he is going to be trying to overrule a specific rule of the universe created by the creator of that universe, LT does not >>>a creator of an excistence like he would not >>> TOAA

no what you dont realsie is that Kain throughout the history of Nosgoth is set on a path created by the Wheel of fate, LT is not part of this path which means Kain cannot be deleted by LT....no because if LT somehow for the sake of a KMC battle showed up, he would even with all his powers still would not be able to break a rule created specifically by the creators, so he would not be able to break kain off that path.

he wipes out realities and unvierses of Marvel, Marvels time is not immutable apprently either, history can be changed. Nosgoth is diffrent, its simply lucky for the Tribunal that if he entered Nosgoth he would not be completly deleted thanks to not being part of time anyway

No ur not using forum character versus logic, ur using ur LOK storyline logic, ur saying because Kain's fate is yet to revealed, theres no way LT couldve killed him. We're doing non-cannon battles here, meaning which character is stronger, and who would win if they fought eachother. LT has displayed powers that can erase universes, dimensions, realities, what has kain done to even compare with this? Don't give me an answer saying "well in nosgoth, he cant be killed by LT because his storyline fate is yet to be revealed about what happens to him" or something like that, thats like saying if time was immutable in marvel, wolverine cant be killed by anyone in existance because he appeared in the comic xmen 2099, which means he'll own anyone who opposes him.

thats the logic your using, simply put, in LOKverse time cannot be changed, and kain already has a fate, which means theres no way LT can/couldve killed him correct? Yeah see thats not the kind of logic doesn't work here.