Originally posted by AlfheimThis a weaker version of the Hulk resisting a different type of TP attack, so hes not just resistant to mind control but different types of TP.
I have that issue. And that proves my point exactly. Selene manages to flaw the Grey Hulk with a single mind blast.(Pink energy) Notice how she stopped and starting talking to him afterwards. She was trying to make him her mind slave afterwards. He resisted her mind control. Not her mind blast which was shown to be effective.
I dont know what you're talking about Selene mind blasts Hulk resists
http://img156.echo.cx/img156/6821/leader26rr.jpgThis also Hulk resisting Leaders illusions attack...this again is a weaker version of the Hulk.
And overcoming illusions like mind control can be overcome by willpower which has been shown by the likes of Wovlerine and Storm.
Oh and that Onslaught scan in the Hulk respect thread is taken out of context. Hulk is still his mind slave afterwards. Hulk see's a poster of a women who resembles Betty and stops hurting on Cable for while. Cable and Storm have to free him from Onslaught by frying his synapses KO'ing him and rebooting his mind.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I have that issue. And that proves my point exactly. Selene manages to flaw the Grey Hulk with a single mind blast.(Pink energy) Notice how she stopped and starting talking to him afterwards. She was trying to make him her mind slave afterwards. He resisted her mind control. Not her mind blast which was shown to be effective.
That was a weaker vesrion of the Hulk though. Ok I see what you mean, so why did she stop mind blasting him?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
And overcoming illusions like mind control can be overcome by willpower which has been shown by the likes of Wovlerine and Storm.
I guess it can be overcome but so can pisi-blasts dint Wolverine get ****ed by Sauron and Cassandra Nova. Thats like saying superhuman strength can be overcome because Cap beat Spiderman but obvoulsy its relative. Oh yeah isnt Casandra Nova supposed to be a part of Xaviers psyche....if everybody can resist mind control why were all the Xmen messed up?
Theres also him resisting man -beats hate. If he can resist that he probably could resist something like Emm pushing his joy button.
Originally posted by Alfheim
[B]That was a weaker vesrion of the Hulk though. Ok I see what you mean, so why did she stop mind blasting him?
She doesn't say. From what she says she met him at a bar and wanted to make him her mind slave. Selene is the Black Queen...she has a superiority complex. She probably wanted him to beg and be submissive.
Theres also him resisting man -beats hate. If he can resist that he probably could resist something like Emm pushing his joy button.
Not the same thing. He's transfering his hate through a psi-link, Hulk would be overcoming an emotion. The orgasm attack is induced by playing with Hulks passive body functions. Man-beasts is emotional. Orgasm attack = Emotional + Physical experience.
Originally posted by Alfheim
[B]I guess it can be overcome but so can pisi-blasts dint Wolverine get ****ed by Sauron and Cassandra Nova. Thats like saying superhuman strength can be overcome because Cap beat Spiderman but obvoulsy its relative. Oh yeah isnt Casandra Nova supposed to be a part of Xaviers psyche....if everybody can resist mind control why were all the Xmen messed up?
Psi-blasts can be two things blasts of psionic energy or misfiring of synapses. Willpower hasn't been shown to save you from that.
Sauron base mind power is hypnotizing. IRRC 9/10 times mind control attacks are overcome by the protagonist in the book.
Cassandra Nova's mind control was overcome by both Beast and Wolverine actually.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Psi-blasts can be two things blasts of psionic energy or misfiring of synapses. Willpower hasn't been shown to save you from that.
Then Hulks durability will give him resistance.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Sauron base mind power is hypnotizing. IRRC
So thats completely different to mind control, also it made Wolverine halluicinate so it is very similar to mind control.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Cassandra Nova's mind control was overcome by both Beast and Wolverine actually.
That was by accident if Wolverine hadnt been hit by a beer can he would not have overcome it. There are no beer cans or balls of string on KMC.
Originally posted by Alfheim
[B]Then Hulks durability will give him resistance.
Durability doesn't actually. WWH Hulks healing factor will probably save him from mind blasts. He'd keep on getting his synapses fried and get stunned but chances are he should keep healing from that. However during the Onslaught saga he was KO'd via that same method by Storm and Cable frying his synapses. Mind Blasts weren't used on WWH so we can't really say what the misfiring of synapses would do.
So thats completely different to mind control, also it made Wolverine halluicinate so it is very similar to mind control.
Hypnosis and Telepathic Mind Control are different. But like I said those are types of mental attacks that can be overcome by willpower. The others aren't. Storm has overcome Saurons attack IRRC and so has Polaris.
That was by accident if Wolverine hadnt been hit by a beer can he would not have overcome it. There are no beer cans or balls of string on KMC
Oh you're talking about Astonishing X-Men. I'm talking about Morrisons run on New X-Men.
As for AXM. That wasn't Cassandra Nova that was Emma Frost. Emma is insane. Bad Emma went around messing with the X-Mens heads. Good Emma went around messing with the X-Mens heads and sabotaged Bad Emma. Good Emma wanted the X-Men to succeed and wanted to die.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
1. Vision's phasing is nothing like J'onn's. And that smells like PIS.2. BS. Strange took himself out of Astral form.
3. No, he can see Astral forms and ghosts. Not the same.
4. whatdur Sentry's not that fast, and this means what against someone who is more powerful than Superman who himself is >>Sentry?
5. When the hell has this been the case in the last 5 years? Manhunter isn't that weak anymore.
6. J'onn's TP>>>Xavier's. Also smells like PIS.
7. Pointless, since J'onn can sooooo much more damage than what Kitty did.
8. And that's a low feat? 🤨 Lobo would eviscerate Hulk as well. Hulk's not fast enough, not smart enough, not versatile enough, and in the case of Lobo, not crazy or bloodlusted enough.
🙂
Originally posted by AlfheimI am just saying that if, for instance, somebody has seen ghosts on 4 different occassions, that does not mean that they have a special power. More like a trait that makes it easier for them than others.
Anyway he resisted the stranger who is more powerful than Xavier....
I have a feeling that the feats described by Kutlu would not have just been about spirits. Hell look at the respect thread you see The HUlk having abilties to deal with illusions that are not concerned with spirits.
1. http://img53.echo.cx/img53/8946/mystical049yd.jpg
2. http://img53.echo.cx/img53/7448/mystical035hd.jpg
3. http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/...stical117iu.jpg
4. Defenders where Hulk sees Strange in astral form.....4 times is not a fluke.
Just to make things clear..
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/h/hulk.htm
The Hulk has two powers apparently not related to his physical attributes,[B] he can see astral forms,
Ok thats the end of that. [/B]
And, still, what he has seen have been spirit forms and such. This does not mean he has the power to always see them. And, it definitely has nothing to do with MM being able to totally become invisible or incorporeal.
Personally, I think the reason he is able to resist mental and visual attacks, is because he doesn't quite have a "Human" brain. It would be like trying to control the thoughts of an octopus or something.
Also, if the guy did permanently have this power, he would be surrounded by ghosts all the time. Or, always be able to communicate with them. This is not the case.
Originally posted by Nod
Its what he does when he knows hes beat and has no idea what to say back.Sad really.
Originally posted by Horrificus
Yes, you got me, retard.
I had absolutely no response to the joke about passing Kutulu what I was smoking!
Exactly!
It wasn't that I thought it was funny. No. It was because I was absolutely crushed!
Your skill of reading people goes far beyond mere "Human Deduction".
As a matter of fact, it is my belief that you may actually be some sort of super-human.
I mean, the guy said for me to pass him what I am smoking, I said "Ha!", and you actually KNEW that I only said "Ha!" because I had no response!
As, everybody knows, is often the case with me. I am ALWAYS at a loss for words! Because, I am almost never right about comics. I don't know nearly as much as you, Nod. My arguments are weak and feable, and the geniuses in here are constantly crushing me.
Geniuses, like you, Nod. But, you are the only one with the special power.
What a goof.
And your starting starting on me why?
Because I talked about him? 🤨
Originally posted by KK the GreatErr no. The scan's below so others can read it for themselves. First off, Hulk says, "No one gives orders to Hulk!!" And Stranger says, "None but you could use sheer naked power to violate my command to remain motionless." Sounds a lot more like telepathy then telekinesis. And yes, J'onn has nothing on the Stranger.
The Stranger himself says that Hulk was the only one with the pure brute strength to break from his hold, which says to me that it wasn't overcoming telepathy so much as it was overpowering telekinesis.
Originally posted by SoljerUgh. It never did need to get past page one, since WWH normal ole weaker versions of the Hulk have taken what MMH could dish out and amped-WWH pretty much demonstrated that in 5 issues and a few crossovers by rolling over the entirety of Marvel Earth.
J'onn takes a very healthy majority. The reasons have already been stated time and time again - this never needed to get past page one.
Originally posted by ExodusCloakUmm. What? Your attenuated theory is pretty rife with conclusory statements. And personally, I think I do have control over how fast my heart pumps. I can make it race by thinking fearful or anxious thoughts and slow it down by meditating on peaceful thoughts. And even granting your distinction, then the end result you're seeking I guess is nerve damage and the like, which ought to be offset by WWH's durability and healing factor, if not willpower. And to beat WWH, his durability or healing factor would have to be overloaded or cancelled, as was demonstrated in 'World War Hulk' several times.
Willpower can only come into play when both individuals have some sort of control over the same thing. Hulk has control over his own movements he has control over his own conscious thoughts. He even has control over his breathing. Therefore he can fight off mind control quite easily just like Storm just like Wolverine etc. . He does not have control over how fast his heart pumps, or how when he receives a an orgasm. Therefore willpower does not come into play in that scenario. And it wouldn't come into play in the misfiring of synapses(Mind Fry) or a Psi blast(Blast of psionic energy). Which makes the Hulk resistant to mind control which he's always been due to his dual persona. But not immune to the art of telepathy itself.That is a pretty interesting point. What would that make clones though?
That was an off topic response to an off topic question. It really had more to do with Kitty then it did to Jonn. 😛
Nevertheless, I do think willpower has an effect on attacks specifically aimed at involuntary functions. Cap, for instance has resisted attacks that have affected his sense of balance (involuntary regulatory functions in the eardrum) and he's resisted attacks that Iron Man's armor was emitting, designed to "shut the human brain down." Also presumably, attacking involuntary functons within the brain. Your logic would dictate that willpower probably has no effect on how that would play itself out, but it's obvious that Cap's willpower does and did.
Clones don't have souls generally. This is a common idea in comics too. I think it was Teen Titans #27, where Raven leads Superboy on a spiritual journey to discover that while he wasn't born with a soul, he eventually crafted one himself through his life experiences, albeit a small and weak one. And that he shouldn't think of himself as inhuman anymore.
Originally posted by Nod
And your starting starting on me why?Because I talked about him? 🤨
I got confused. Must be time for me to crawl under my desk and take a nice nap.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Durability doesn't actually. WWH Hulks healing factor will probably save him from mind blasts. He'd keep on getting his synapses fried and get stunned but chances are he should keep healing from that.
Yup.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
However during the Onslaught saga he was KO'd via that same method by Storm and Cable frying his synapses.
That was a weaker version of the Hulk. That was also the combined effort of Cable and Storm, neither of them could have done it on their own.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Mind Blasts weren't used on WWH so we can't really say what the misfiring of synapses would do.
His body would adapt, for example his grown gills to help him breath underwater.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Hypnosis and Telepathic Mind Control are different. But like I said
You need a strong mind to resist both telepathy and hypnosis.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
those are types of mental attacks that can be overcome by willpower. The others aren't. Storm has overcome Saurons attack IRRC and so has Polaris.
....and Wolverine didnt....so people dont resist mind control all the time. Also Loki managed to mind control Thor but didnt manage to mind control Hulk.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Oh you're talking about Astonishing X-Men. I'm talking about Morrisons run on New X-Men.
As for AXM. That wasn't Cassandra Nova that was Emma Frost. Emma is insane. Bad Emma went around messing with the X-Mens heads. Good Emma went around messing with the X-Mens heads and sabotaged Bad Emma. Good Emma wanted the X-Men to succeed and wanted to die.
That still doesnt change the fact that Emma was able to control their minds. It seems there is some inconsistency with mind control but not everybody resists it like you stated.
Originally posted by Horrificus
I am just saying that if, for instance, somebody has seen ghosts on 4 different occassions, that does not mean that they have a special power. More like a trait that makes it easier for them than others.And, still, what he has seen have been spirit forms and such. This does not mean he has the power to always see them.
Bro hes seen it on 4 seperate ocassions AND it says its one of his powers in his bio. Therefore its his special power.
Originally posted by Horrificus
And, it definitely has nothing to do with MM being able to totally become invisible or incorporeal.
You might be right there but Hulk has other showings not to do with spirits that involve him seeing through illusions and dealing with incorporeal beings.
Originally posted by Horrificus
Personally, I think the reason he is able to resist mental and visual attacks, is because he doesn't quite have a "Human" brain. It would be like trying to control the thoughts of an octopus or something.
Its doesnt matter what you think the reason is the fcat is he cant.
Originally posted by Horrificus
Also, if the guy did permanently have this power, he would be surrounded by ghosts all the time.
Why would he be surrounded by ghosts all the time when people die they go into a different dimension? Hell Strange can see astral forms hes not surrounded by ghosts. 😐
Originally posted by Horrificus
Or, always be able to communicate with them. This is not the case.
Well they can see him and he can see them.
Anyway his bio states he can see astral forms. Hulk doesnt encounter astral forms every issue, neither does Strange but when they do they can see them.
Originally posted by Horrificus
Damn!
Nope.
I was not busting on you Nod. Mistake.
I am in the process of troubleshooting several computer/network problems, on the phone and remotely, WHILE trying to take care of the important task of these comic book threads! 😉I got confused. Must be time for me to crawl under my desk and take a nice nap.
Posting from work for the win. 😉
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Err no. The scan's below so others can read it for themselves. First off, Hulk says, "No one gives orders to Hulk!!" And Stranger says, "None but you could use sheer naked power to violate my command to remain motionless." Sounds a lot more like telepathy then telekinesis. And yes, J'onn has nothing on the Stranger.
Im on your side...but if he says sheer naked power doesnt that refer to physical strength and not mental?
Originally posted by Horrificus
Damn!
Nope.
I was not busting on you Nod. Mistake.
I am in the process of troubleshooting several computer/network problems, on the phone and remotely, WHILE trying to take care of the important task of these comic book threads! 😉I got confused. Must be time for me to crawl under my desk and take a nice nap.
😂 Its fine dude.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yup.
That doesn't mean telepathy would be utterly useless against him which is my point in the first place. Mind Blasts will work on him. So should an orgasm attack.
That was a weaker version of the Hulk. That was also the combined effort of Cable and Storm, neither of them could have done it on their own.
I never said that they could. But the point of the matter is he's not immune to a synapse attack.
His body would adapt, for example his grown gills to help him breath underwater.
Or he could get KO'd and then adapt that would still count as a win for MM.
You need a strong mind to resist both telepathy and hypnosis.
....and Wolverine didnt....so people dont resist mind control all the time. Also Loki managed to mind control Thor but didnt manage to mind control Hulk.
I don't see what the point you're trying to make here is? Mind Control goes either way in comics depending on the writer. Which is why I said 9 times out of 10 mind control fails.
Shadow King and Storm. Do you know how many times Storm has resisted the mind control of a Shadow King level telepath? Elias Bogan as well. Storm has resisted the mind control of Elias Bogan(Above Xavier level telepath) acting through Rachel Grey. Sage also has an indomniable will just like Storm. Cassandra Nova failed to mind control Wolverine and Beast. Again that's another top tier telepath failing at mind control.
Hulk has been controlled before by mind control. He's also fought off mind control. Every character has feats like this. Mind Control is very inconsistent. Which is why 9/10 times out of ten the telepath will fail. Every character has low and high showings regarding telepathy. Even the Hulk.
Originally posted by Alfheim
That still doesnt change the fact that Emma was able to control their minds. It seems there is some inconsistency with mind control but not everybody resists it like you stated.
First of all Emma didn't mind control anyone in that arc. Scott = Turned Scott into a Zombie. Wolverine = Regression into a child. Beast = Regression into a primative form. Kitty = Lodged 3 years of memories into Kitty's head and then used illusions to trick Kitty into opening the box. She never forced kitty to open the box. Mind blasted Colossus.
Second of all everyone is capable of resisting mind control. It depends on the writer as all characters have high and low showings regarding mind control. So again I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
