Originally posted by Kutulu
Someone else explains his speed, in a non-angry state:
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You can't translate an angular velocity unit into linear velocity (or acceleration i.e. g-units) that simply. It depends on the circumference of the motion...1 rpm = 1 m/min if the circumference is 1 m
40 h/8 min = 300
300 x 40,000 rpm = 12,000,000 rpm = 200,000 rpsAnd 200,000 rps would only = c/9 if the circular motion had a circumference of 166 m.
Circumference = d x pi
Saying d = 5 cm would probably be generous.
200,000 rps x 0.15m = 30,000 m/sStill fast. But nowhere near c/9, more like c/10,000
And imo I don't think that was meant to be taken so much as a speed feat as it was a strange strength/power feat...
The best Hulk can ever achieve in this fight is a stalemate.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Meh.
You're getting into areas of supposition though with things like "superspeed fighting" when there's no indication of time or speed depicted on panel.The best Hulk can ever achieve in this fight is a stalemate.
well that should count out J'ohn super speed fighting too because the same hasn't been stated for him during a fight.
this forum is filled with BS when it comes to the hulk. a marvel fan can use the same exact arguments as a dc fan does when it comes to doomsday yet it doesn't count because hulk hasn't ran at super super speeds. Well neither has lobo or doomsday yet they are considered super fast by the dc fans. But i'm sure this will be discarded as well.
90% of characters that have super speed and fight each other have no indication of time or speed depicted on panel but I guess that rule only counts for the hulk. During New world order JLA run with graint Morrisun (totaly missspelled his name) flash fought a white maritain and used a IMP on him so he was moving close to the speed of light. However their fight lasted as long as GL and a white martain.
Originally posted by jasofisc
well that should count out J'ohn super speed fighting too because the same hasn't been stated for him during a fight.this forum is filled with BS when it comes to the hulk. a marvel fan can use the same exact arguments as a dc fan does when it comes to doomsday yet it doesn't count because hulk hasn't ran at super super speeds. Well neither has lobo or doomsday yet they are considered super fast by the dc fans. But i'm sure this will be discarded as well.
90% of characters that have super speed and fight each other have no indication of time or speed depicted on panel but I guess that rule only counts for the hulk. During New world order JLA run with graint Morrisun (totaly missspelled his name) flash fought a white maritain and used a IMP on him so he was moving close to the speed of light. However their fight lasted as long as GL and a white martain.
The reason people bring up Hulk speed feats because every time it's a DC character against Hulk, people state something like: "ZOMG SPEED BLITZ LOLZ!!!1!" or "ZOMG Hulk is too slow, he cannot even see them! LOLZ!" or "ROFL Hulk so slow they hit him one billion times before he moves! LULZ!!11!!1", etc., granting an auto win because "ZOMG White Martian!!11!! Too fast!!!".
Fact of the matter is that Hulk has fought plenty of people that can move at either sub-luminal or faster than light speeds and taken a victory:
* Gladiator
* Sentry
* Silver Surfer
* Thor
* Drax
* Hyperion
* Jack of Hearts
Several of the people listed above have Superman-like "DC-levels" of power. Hyperion and Gladiator were generating enough force to move planets when they fought each other, and they were close to stalemates. Gladiator busted up a planet in 3 punches and was fast enough to catch up to a ship that had already entered hyperspace with a head-start, and showed superspeed style punches on-panel when trying to punch Reed Richard's illusion.
The superspeed = auto win against Hulk has been thoroughly debunked many times on-panel, yet still the DC Fanboys insist on with "SPEED BLITZ!!!11!! ZOMG SPEED BLITZ = INSTANT WIN!!!!!"
This tactic has been tried on the Hulk and failed. Period. Yes it will grant a sizable advantage in battle, but it's not an auto-win like the DC fanboys insist on.
As far as the mental prowess of Martian Manhunter, WW Hulk has withstood every top tier psionic on Marvel Earth that went against him during the WWH storyline with little difficulty. Past incarnations of Hulk had a lesser resistance than WWH. For those of you who think Xavier's mind control is weak, check his respect thread sometime. WWH completely and totally resisted Xaviers' attempts to even calm him down. Same thing with a prepp'd Dr. Strange's spells. Completely resisted both magic and pure psionic forms of mental intrusion. So it's pretty safe to say that MM doing any mental damage to WWH is out.
WWH has already resisted phasing on-panel. He can directly affect energy forms, magic and psionic entities. He physically broke Dr. Strange's hand through a mental projection alone. So phasing is out.
For all you Martian Manhunter fans acting like Martian Manhunter is so uberly unstoppable, pick up an actual comic once in a while, and you will see him getting his ass kicked fairly often to techniques which you all act like he's immune to.
WWH wins this, hands down, 10/10 times.
Originally posted by jasofiscMM has been depicted superspeed fighting.
well that should count out J'ohn super speed fighting too because the same hasn't been stated for him during a fight.
Originally posted by KutuluRiddle me this. When and how often have any of these characters been depicted to fight at superluminal or even just superspeed against the Hulk?
Fact of the matter is that Hulk has fought plenty of people that can move at either sub-luminal or faster than light speeds and taken a victory:
* Gladiator
* Sentry
* Silver Surfer
* Thor
* Drax
* Hyperion
* Jack of HeartsSeveral of the people listed above have Superman-like "DC-levels" of power. Hyperion and Gladiator were generating enough force to move planets when they fought each other, and they were close to stalemates. Gladiator busted up a planet in 3 punches and was fast enough to catch up to a ship that had already entered hyperspace with a head-start, and showed superspeed style punches on-panel when trying to punch Reed Richard's illusion.
Originally posted by KutuluI'm well aware of Xavier's capabilities, I contributed to that respect thread. MM is a superior telepath to Xavier. There's no indication of what exactly Xavier tried to do during the pointless sales driven crossover, but in all likelihood it was mind control. Mind control can be resisted via willpower. Psiblasts can't really.
As far as the mental prowess of Martian Manhunter, WW Hulk has withstood every top tier psionic on Marvel Earth that went against him during the WWH storyline with little difficulty. Past incarnations of Hulk had a lesser resistance than WWH. For those of you who think Xavier's mind control is weak, check his respect thread sometime. WWH completely and totally resisted Xaviers' attempts to even calm him down. Same thing with a prepp'd Dr. Strange's spells. Completely resisted both magic and pure psionic forms of mental intrusion. So it's pretty safe to say that MM doing any mental damage to WWH is out.
You say "prepped Dr Strange" as if it really means something these days.
Originally posted by KutuluMM phases into another dimension. Let me guess Hulk punches through the dimensions? This without bringing in his superspeed, flight and invisibility.
WWH has already resisted phasing on-panel. He can directly affect energy forms, magic and psionic entities. He physically broke Dr. Strange's hand through a mental projection alone. So phasing is out.
Originally posted by KutuluThe best Hulk can ever achieve in this fight is a stalemate.
WWH wins this, hands down, 10/10 times.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
MM has been depicted superspeed fighting. Riddle me this. When and how often have any of these characters been depicted to fight at superluminal or even just superspeed against the Hulk?
Gladiator basically tried to speed blitz Hulk into space, Hulk clapped his ears, they both fell back to the planet, the fight resumed. Sentry speed blitzed Hulk from the get-go.
I'm well aware of Xavier's capabilities, I contributed to that respect thread. MM is a superior telepath to Xavier. There's no indication of what exactly Xavier tried to do during the pointless sales driven crossover, but in all likelihood it was mind control. Mind control can be resisted via willpower. Psiblasts can't really.
Hulk can resist psi-blasts just as easily as he resists mental domination - his nerve cells themselves grow stronger, more resilient, and regenerate on top of that. He's healed from having his brain stem severed.
You say "prepped Dr Strange" as if it really means something these days.
MM phases into another dimension. Let me guess Hulk punches through the dimensions? This without bringing in his superspeed, flight and invisibility.
The best Hulk can ever achieve in this fight is a stalemate.
Originally posted by KutuluHow is time portrayed. How is speed portrayed. How is Hulk portrayed to be utilizing superspeed.
Gladiator basically tried to speed blitz Hulk into space, Hulk clapped his ears, they both fell back to the planet, the fight resumed. Sentry speed blitzed Hulk from the get-go.
Originally posted by KutuluYou can resist mind control because it requires manipulation the equivalent of a psychic scalpel. A psiblast is more akin to a psychic sledge hammer, it requires no continual manipulation and is delivered in one large blow. You can recover from it. You can't particularly resist it.
Hulk can resist psi-blasts just as easily as he resists mental domination - his nerve cells themselves grow stronger, more resilient, and regenerate on top of that. He's healed from having his brain stem severed.Dr. Strange knew he was coming, and prepared a mind attack spell
for him. Dr. Strange is still a formidable opponent.
Strange prepped a spell to enter Hulk's mind, he never intended to attack it. Strange is formidable? These days? If you say so...
Originally posted by KutuluI've never seen that interpretation of the rules. MM phasing is extradimensional. I've never seen it ever suggested that he shouldn't be allowed to use this power under the forum rules.
If MM phases himself into another dimension then he forfeits the match, as that's leaving the arena.Wrong - the best MM can hope for is a merciful beat down.
MM phases his body into another dimension, but retains his consciousness in the current dimension.
That's not leaving the battlefields. It never has been, and it won't change so Hulk has more of a chance.
Dr. Strange was beaten by a ninja, and Dr. Strange couldn't teleport out of Japan. Dr. Strange isn't formidable in any sense of the word.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
How is time portrayed. How is speed portrayed. How is Hulk portrayed to be utilizing superspeed.
Hulk attacks much faster than anybody gives him credit for. It's a logical extension to say that he's attacking fast as well, otherwise he wouldn't be doing so much damage with his fists. He can leap at a fast enough rate to attain escape velocity, that right there shows that his muscles would have to contract at sub-luminal speeds. His punches cannot be easily dodged by even speedsters, once he amps up enough. He just doesn't run around stupidly fast, or fly incredibly fast, but when he does throw a punch or leap at someone, it is at incredible speeds.
You can resist mind control because it requires manipulation the equivalent of a psychic scalpel. A psiblast is more akin to a psychic sledge hammer, it requires no continual manipulation and is delivered in one large blow. You can recover from it. You can't particularly resist it.
A psi-blast is simply trying to overwhelm the nerve cells with energy. WW Hulk has been shown to be resistant to this effect. Example is when in the past Storm had a technique to overload Hulk's nerve cells with electricity. Same thing on WWH, except this time a full powered blast, and WWH shrugged it off like he would an insect buzzing at him.
When Xavier attempted to get inside Hulk's mind, it caused a feedback so strong that everybody in the vicinity was affected. That's how much more powerful and resistant WWH's mind was compared with a regular Hulk's mind. So WWH can resist mental blasts, otherwise the whole series would have been over. It was even mentioned that someone was attacking Hulk's mind during the X-men crossover comic, where someone else was fighting him physically at the same time. So it's already on-panel that Hulk can resist both mind control and psi-blasts.
Strange prepped a spell to enter Hulk's mind, he never intended to attack it. Strange is formidable? These days? If you say so...
I've never seen that interpretation of the rules. MM phasing is extradimensional. I've never seen it ever suggested that he shouldn't be allowed to use this power under the forum rules. [/B]
If someone leaves the dimension, they leave the arena, and forfeit the match. It's in the rules post at the top of the forum:
Leaving the field
Combatants who leave the field of combat on purpose forfeit the match. If they are removed from the arena against their will (being punched, thrown, teleported, etc.) and can make it back under their own power in a reasonable amount of time, then they are still in the fight. Obviously, if a combatant leaves the field and cannot return under their own power, then they have lost.
So MM phasing himself into another dimension is going to cost him the match. Plus this is an arena battle, not "run away scared and hide in another pocket dimension until the opponent calms down, then sneak in and attack". The Arena doesn't work like that.
Originally posted by MindsetSelene hit Hulk with a psiblast and felled him.
Cable hit Hulk with a psi-blast and it turned him in to Gray Hulk, I'm betting a psi blast to WWH would have even less effect.
Hulk during Onslaught Saga was bizarre... And during the same storyline a combination of a psiblast from Cable and lightning bolt from Storm "killed" the Hulk, until Cable ventured inside his mind.
During the WWH storyline, no telepath directly attacked Hulk's mind. Xavier essentially gave up to an unwarranted guilt. So there's nothing there to indicate any better coping with a psiblast.
Originally posted by Mindset
Cable hit Hulk with a psi-blast and it turned him in to Gray Hulk, I'm betting a psi blast to WWH would have even less effect.
^^ Co-signed. With all of the telepaths on Marvel Earth, if a simple psi-blast was sufficient to stop his rampage in WWH, you think that someone wouldn't have tried that? Hulk has resistances to things beyond the physical, it's part of the mystery of his character. He can resist mystic (e.g. Dr. Strange's bands of Cytorrak, or mystic / mental spells), can resist telepathic assaults (e.g. Xavier, Emma Frost - who is an accomplished psychic herself by the way), and pure physical attacks to specific organs.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Selene hit Hulk with a psiblast and felled him.Hulk during Onslaught Saga was bizarre... And during the same storyline a combination of a psiblast from Cable and lightning bolt from Storm "killed" the Hulk, until Cable ventured inside his mind.
During the WWH storyline, no telepath directly attacked Hulk's mind. So there's nothing there to indicate any better coping with a psiblast.
WWH is a whole other beast than plain old vanilla Hulk. Stuff that worked on regular Hulk didn't work on WWH.
Re-read the X-men / WWH crossover, someone was attacking him mentally to keep him off balance while he was physically fighting at the same time.
Plus Emma Frost was there, a powerful telepath in her own right, and someone who is known to use telepathic psi-blasts on people.
Emma Frost is never depicted doing anything telepathic throughout the three issues besides blocking Xavier. For most of the three issues she is in diamond form, in which she is devoid of telepathy.
Xavier was guilt-wridden despite not having done anything to Hulk. Since Emma was blocking him from stopping them, he played nurse.
The Stepford Cuckoos did nothing but contact other X-Men.
Pretty much all characters who resist mental control still get felled by psiblasts.
On-panel evidence of Hulk resisting Xavier's "mental attack" (so no, he didn't only use telepathy):
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkmentalresistanceproof.jpg
Heck they couldn't even read his mind, let alone control or attack it, during WWH. This goes to show how much stronger his mind and resilience towards mental effects had grown from regular Hulk to WWH stage.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkmentalresistance3.jpg
In this scan Emma herself admits that he's uncontrollable. Emma is known for psychic blasts.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkvsxmen10.jpg
His mental resilience increases along with his other attributes when he gets angry from the looks of it. He's been controlled in the past when he was non-angry. All of his resistances increase - resistance to elements, sonics, energy, telepathy, psychic assault, etc.. It's part of his character and he has a long history of doing so.
The only times mental attacks and mental control has worked on him is when he's in a more calm state.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Emma Frost is never depicted doing anything telepathic throughout the three issues besides blocking Xavier. For most of the three issues she is in diamond form, in which she is devoid of telepathy.Xavier was guilt-wridden despite not having done anything to Hulk. Since Emma was blocking him from stopping them, he played nurse.
The Stepford Cuckoos did nothing but contact other X-Men.
Pretty much all characters who resist mental control still get felled by psiblasts.
So you're saying that you think Emma didn't try to psi-blast Hulk, knowing that it would instantly K.O. him, and could have prevented so much chaos? No way dude, she's not that dumb. Think about what you're saying here.
Hulk has also resisted a full blown psionic attack from the Leader on-panel. Hulk has resisted numerous psi-blasts throughout his career.
His physiology is not normal. His nerve cells don't react like a normal person's. That's why he can resist things such as psi-blasts, since they attack the nerve cells themselves. The best that could happen from MM psi-blasting Hulk is temporarily stunning him until his nerve cells regenerate.
If this was normal Hulk I would have given MM a majority. This is WWH though, his cells start off resilient form the get-go. Going by the WWH storyline, there is nobody that was able to take him down in Marvel, psi-blast or otherwise. If it was as simple as a psi-blast WWH would have never gotten past issue 1 or 2. You think that if regular Hulk, near death, can resist the Leader's psi-blast, that somehow he has grown less resistant, in a more powerful form, in a more angry state, in full health?
