Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, I've forgotten more about Superman than half the people on this forum have probably ever read. If you have the issue numbers, I could look them up.
Back in the day, I hated this fight.. Hated it so much, I tracked down every comic Lobo appeared in, just to see him lose.
Made me a fan, and I guess proves, to use wrestling terminology, that it's the heels that really make the money. ^_^
Originally posted by -Pr-I can read the comic as well as any other person. And I'm not going to rely on some randomly quoted interview without context which I'm sure you're "quoting" liberally from.
Not the same as the angry Superman we saw in Sacrifice. You can argue the point all you want. Rucka says different, and his interpretation is the correct one, with him being the writer. That's all there is to it, imo.He said was he was nerfed, so he was nerfed. That's it.
So yeah, he thought she was Doomsday. Wonder Woman knew it. Superman knew it. Superman went as all-out as you'd expect him to. He was overpowering her but didn't get the job done.
He wrote the comic, we all read it. Comic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview. That's it.
Draw all the interpretations and hang on all the random asides outside the four corners of that book as much as you want. I only see deflection. Of course, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion and your interpretation. As I'm perfectly entitled to think it's about as reliable as a priest in a preschool.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Not the same as the angry Superman we saw in Sacrifice. You can argue the point all you want. Rucka says different, and his interpretation is the correct one, with him being the writer. That's all there is to it, imo.He said was he was nerfed, so he was nerfed. That's it.
I will note in the same interview, he said WW has the advantage on the ground and Superman in the sky.
He was only 'nerfed' in the sense of being too aggressive and paying for it. If he fought more cautiously, he probably wouldn't have lost like he did, but he also probably wouldn't be dealing damage as fast and the whole thing would be much longer.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I can read the comic as well as any other person. And I'm not going to rely on some randomly quoted interview without context which I'm sure you're "quoting" liberally from.So yeah, he thought she was Doomsday. Wonder Woman knew it. Superman knew it. Superman went as all-out as you'd expect him to. He was overpowering her but didn't get the job done.
He wrote the comic, we all read it. Comic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview. That's it.
Draw all the interpretations and hang on all the random asides outside the four corners of that book as much as you want. I only see deflection. Of course, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion and your interpretation. As I'm perfectly entitled to think it's about as reliable as a priest in a preschool.
Superman would have fought Diana much differently than DD. He knows how good she is in combat and would fight more cautiously and use more ranged attacks. Also, Superman forgot some of his powers (like super hearing) and x-ray vision. So Superman was nerfed a little bit. But the other reason Superman looked bad vs. WW was because he was not only fighting out of anger but thought is was DD (who fights totally different).
He could have simply tossed her in the sun if he was right mind and intended to kill her. Superman never uses rocks on doomsday in a fight. All he has to do is to dislocate any of her shoulder and do a simple lobotomy through her eyes. Or simply drag her to space and knock the air out from her lungs. Batman did this in Superman/Batman 56 and knocked her out. One of the major plot holes in sacrifice was that how diana can scream in the space. Or disorient her with a high intensity heat vision blast and suck all the air from sorroundings. She doesn't have the durability to go with him hth and survive hv at the same time for long. She was once blind due to acid IIRC.
abhilegend
He could have simply tossed her in the sun if he was right mind and intended to kill her.
He tried exactly that and failed. He was even heat-visioning her while trying to do that to boot.
All he has to do is to dislocate any of her shoulder and do a simple lobotomy through her eyes.
Never got a chance to dislocate her shoulders (she is a better melee fighter than them, so that's hardly "all he has to do...". All she has to do is cut his throat or tie him up with the lasso), and he tried the heat vision thing too and it failed as well.
Batman did this in Superman/Batman 56 and knocked her out.
People don't pass out immediately when they run out of air, and she's operated in space many times before, without air. So that's an outlier that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
One of the major plot holes in sacrifice was that how diana can scream in the space.
It's not like there was sound produced 🙂 And that shows that the 'knock the air out of her' method wouldn't work because, well, it happened, she lost her air and it didn't work.
Or disorient her with a high intensity heat vision blast and suck all the air from sorroundings.
Why would a high intensity heat vision blast disorient her? He tried high intensity heat vision. Why wouldn't she just move to different surroundings? Etc..
She doesn't have the durability to go with him hth and survive hv at the same time for long.
Except she did, and she has bracers to deflect HV remember.
Well, I guess 'for long' is accurate, they both looked like ground hamburger after two minutes of fighting for real, but he was taking tons of injuries too.
She was once blind due to acid IIRC.
By the god-venom of Medusa, actually.
I like how your list is "All Superman has to do is (X stuff he actually tried and didn't work)."
None of that stuff is instant wins because, well, it's been tried and it didn't work 🙂 She has defenses and plenty going for her.
Winning is about fighting smart and using his superior stats to gradually outlast her, there's no such thing as a surefire instant win against a foe of her level.
Originally posted by Q99I am glad you left the part where I used the plot holes.
He tried exactly that and failed. He was even heat-visioning her while trying to do that to boot.Never got a chance to dislocate her shoulders (she is a better melee fighter than them, so that's hardly "all he has to do...". All she has to do is cut his throat or tie him up with the lasso), and he tried the heat vision thing too and it failed as well.
People don't pass out immediately when they run out of air, and she's operated in space many times before, without air. So that's an outlier that doesn't really make a lot of sense.
It's not like there was sound produced 🙂 And that shows that the 'knock the air out of her' method wouldn't work because, well, it happened, she lost her air and it didn't work.
Why would a high intensity heat vision blast disorient her? He tried high intensity heat vision. Why wouldn't she just move to different surroundings? Etc..
Except she did, and she has bracers to deflect HV remember.
Well, I guess 'for long' is accurate, they both looked like ground hamburger after two minutes of fighting for real, but he was taking tons of injuries too.
By the god-venom of Medusa, actually.
I like how your list is "All Superman has to do is (X stuff he actually tried and didn't work)."
None of that stuff is instant wins because, well, it's been tried and it didn't work 🙂 She has defenses and plenty going for her.
Originally posted by Q99
[B]He tried exactly that and failed. He was even heat-visioning her while trying to do that to boot.
Never got a chance to dislocate her shoulders (she is a better melee fighter than them, so that's hardly "all he has to do...". All she has to do is cut his throat or tie him up with the lasso), and he tried the heat vision thing too and it failed as well.All her better fighting skills can't protect her when he gets a hold of her and don't tell me she's such a better fighter that he can't touch her or grab her at all. He got a hold on her and dragged her to the sun previously in a story filled with plot holes. Here she wouldn't have Rucka to protect her from superman enter in the sun along with her in tow.
Why would a high intensity heat vision blast disorient her? He tried high intensity heat vision. Why wouldn't she just move to different surroundings? Etc..She would be disoriented as bracers don't block light from passing and high intensity light can disorient anyone whether they are human or superhuman. Heck, I've seen a green lantern being disoriented by a low intensity heat vision. Who can move fast, Wonder woman or superman's eyes? He can produce a heat vision blast covering his whole vision as in S/B 10.
Except she did, and she has bracers to deflect HV remember.Yes she can block his hv but not if he grabbed both of her hands and produced a despero dropping hv blast. All I am trying to say that untill Diana get a durability upgrade she can't beat superman for a majority.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He could have simply tossed her in the sun if he was right mind and intended to kill her. Superman never uses rocks on doomsday in a fight. All he has to do is to dislocate any of her shoulder and do a simple lobotomy through her eyes. Or simply drag her to space and knock the air out from her lungs. Batman did this in Superman/Batman 56 and knocked her out. One of the major plot holes in sacrifice was that how diana can scream in the space. Or disorient her with a high intensity heat vision blast and suck all the air from sorroundings. She doesn't have the durability to go with him hth and survive hv at the same time for long. She was once blind due to acid IIRC.
So I got to play teacher again. Well ok. First, he can't toss her in the sun because she can fly and because she wouldn't just easily let him grab her. He can't dislocate her shoulder because she will defend against it; the same goes for the lobotomy through the eyes. Second, Superman is fighting in character so he wouldn't even think of such things in a fight against her. Finally, she can always cross her bracelets and have a shield to protect her whole body. She also has lightning that can harm Superman.
Originally posted by Q99Superman could have tried HV through her eyes (instead of the non lethal cheek bone). I guess although Superman was angry, deep down he didn't really want to do anything vicious to DD. Or it could be that the writer didn't want him to do anything vicious to Diana because of because of obvious reasons. But in a forum fight it would be very hard for Superman just to grab Diana and do what he did in Sacrifice.
Never got a chance to dislocate her shoulders (she is a better melee fighter than them, so that's hardly "all he has to do...". All she has to do is cut his throat or tie him up with the lasso), and he tried the heat vision thing too and it failed as well.
Originally posted by abhilegend
All her better fighting skills can't protect her when he gets a hold of her and don't tell me she's such a better fighter that he can't touch her or grab her at all.
But what you don't realize is that Diana has options to one shot (or two shot) Superman which almost equalizes out.
She has great lasso chances AFTER landing a stunning blow on him.
She can always cut him again with the tiara, then following up with something nice.
She has magical lightning which could stun Superman for a second (enough time to do something else to him).
You can't always look at what the first character can do to second without thinking about what the second character can do to the first.
This type of thinking is what makes a terrible chess player.
IMO, Superman would win because of the freeze breath tactic. It would slow her down just enough for Superman to close in and have the advantage.