Originally posted by abhilegend
His face turned normal all the time while he had the power inside him which wasn't because Eclipso possessed him. Alex had injected Black Diamond inside his body and ALWAYS had the power inside him unless there was sunlight.Don't talk about anything you don't know shit about.
From a different writer who had very different idea about wonder woman's durability. Also just because something amps Wonder Woman, it wouldn't amp Superman since he is powered by the weakness of Eclipso. Eclips'd Superman was weakened by solar matter to the point Guy Gardner was manhandling him
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/teams/AdventuresOfAnnual04s.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/teams/AdventuresOfAnnual04t.jpgSuperman should've been weakened by that possession instead since magical possession weakens him and Eclipso weakens by sunlight. Just see what happens when somebody allergic to sunlight tests superman's power
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Energy/absorbing/superman180a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Energy/absorbing/superman180b.jpgAnd why would you say that? Oh, I forgot who you are. Anyway Wonder Woman=/=Shazam even if her lightning is called zeus' lightning which it isn't. Wonder Girl had Zeus' lightning in her lasso too and it didn't even knock out Superboy.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/02-14-100110.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/02-14-100111.jpgHaha, you're clueless.
Magic and Kryptonite ARE a weakness to Superman. Doesn't means he would fold over and die whenever he encounters one like some of you think. What are you saying here anyway? Wonder Woman would beat Superman because she has some pew-pew magical lightning which has no showings of harming anybody to his level while Superman would lose to her despite oneshotting her? Hating much?
I'm not hating at all this time, I'm just arguing like you do. Wonder Woman is embued with magic, which is one of only two of Superman's stated and depicted weaknesses. You are the one who constantly makes statements like "Superman will freeze him with his cold breath, then speed blitz him in the face- fight over." What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so I say Wonder Woman can hurt him with magical lightning, then speed blitz him while he is hurting and behead him with her tiara. Sound silly? It shouldn't.
Again, the bigger point which I made a few panels ago is that Wonder Woman, along with Captain Marvel (ESPECIALLY HIM) and Martain Manhunter all have the power to beat Superman, yet time and time again it is shown that D.C. will do anything to keep Superman #1 on their list. It's fine if that's what they want to do, but they do so at the risk of looking utterly transparent. They are willing to ignore his weaknesses, have characters job against him, have him contradict himself by saying things like Martain Manhunter is the most powerful hero, etc. Wonder Woman had him DEAD TO RIGHTS in their fight. She intentionally only gave him a shallow cut to his neck which could have been a beheading. Yet, at another time, this same character as you pointed out said she could not beat him (even though she was doing a decent job of kicking his ass.) In D.C., the #1 rule is everyone MUST bend over for Superman.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I'm not hating at all this time, I'm just arguing like you do. Wonder Woman is embued with magic, which is one of only two of Superman's stated and depicted weaknesses. You are the one who constantly makes statements like "Superman will freeze him with his cold breath, then speed blitz him in the face- fight over." What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so I say Wonder Woman can hurt him with magical lightning, then speed blitz him while he is hurting and behead him with her tiara. Sound silly? It shouldn't.Again, the bigger point which I made a few panels ago is that Wonder Woman, along with Captain Marvel (ESPECIALLY HIM) and Martain Manhunter all have the power to beat Superman, yet time and time again it is shown that D.C. will do anything to keep Superman #1 on their list. It's fine if that's what they want to do, but they do so at the risk of looking utterly transparent. They are willing to ignore his weaknesses, have characters job against him, have him contradict himself by saying things like Martain Manhunter is the most powerful hero, etc. Wonder Woman had him DEAD TO RIGHTS in their fight. She intentionally only gave him a shallow cut to his neck which could have been a beheading. Yet, at another time, this same character as you pointed out said she could not beat him (even though she was doing a decent job of kicking his ass.) In D.C., the #1 rule is everyone MUST bend over for Superman.
I'm not even dignifying that with a response. You don't like what the comics show us? Go open your own comic company and publish your own comics.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Being imbued with magic doesn't hurts superman unless there is some kind magical energy attack charging it. Wonder Woman's punch wouldn't affect superman more due to her being a magical golem. I didn't say anything like that, I said he would beat her if he gets her arms pinned and blasts her with HV like actual comics depicted.I'm not even dignifying that with a response. You don't like what the comics show us? Go open your own comic company and publish your own comics.
Okay, cop out then. It wasn't like my commentary in this post was all meant for you.
As far as her being a magical golem, how is it possible for you to miss the words "magical lightining strikes" multiple times in one post? Maybe that's what you aren't "dignifying" with a response.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Okay, cop out then. It wasn't like my commentary in this post was all meant for you.As far as her being a magical golem, how is it possible for you to miss the words "magical lightining strikes" multiple times in one post? Maybe that's what you aren't "dignifying" with a response.
She can shoot lightning at him which can't even knock out Superboy to win? Haha.
I was talking about your dismissing of feats because you think DC is favoring Superman. They are all properties of DC, its not up to us to decide what's usable or not.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Wonder Woman's lighting attack WOULD hurt [Superman] ...
that is unless he is written by the same fanboy writer that decided he wanted to ignore Superman's weakness to kryptonite ...
If you're referring to Greg Rucka in Sacrifice (Wonder Woman #219, Volume 2), it might be a good time to point out the powerful, often unacknowledged, role sunlight plays in many Superman battles.
It affects how strong he and other Kryptonians are, it affects how fast they heal, it affects how much punishment they can take and shrug off, and, yes, it even affects how resistant they are to kryptonite.
Often small amounts of solar energy have dramatic results.
For instance, in their first encounter Kara Zor-el AND Karen Starr demonstrate how quickly even ambient sunlight can increase their strength and kryptonian powers ...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13850804
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13850829
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Source: Supergirl #1, Volume 5
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Penciller: Ian Churchill
Date: October 2005
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_5_1
Simple ambient radiation from Stargirl's staff does the trick there, even as
Stargirl recharged Superman with a blast from her staff years earlier ...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13850772
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Source: JLA/JSA. Virtue and Vice.
Writer: Geoff Johns
Penciller: Carlos Pacheco
Date: December 2002
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/JLA/JSA:_Virtue_and_Vice
Note in the case of V&V, Superman had been sent to a place that drained him to a point of near collapse only moments earlier, but Stargirl's boost put him back in the game in moments.
It is an episode a few years prior to that which probably gives the most germane relation to this thread, however. At least as far as the kryptonite dynamics go:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849443
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849445
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849446
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849450
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849454
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849457
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849465
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Source: Superman, the Man of Tomorrow #13, Volume 1
Writer: Louise Simonson
Penciller: Paul Ryan
Date: Spring 1999
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman:_Man_of_Tomorrow_Vol_1_13
Originally posted by abhilegend
She can shoot lightning at him which can't even knock out Superboy to win? Haha.I was talking about your dismissing of feats because you think DC is favoring Superman. They are all properties of DC, its not up to us to decide what's usable or not.
What feats are you talking about and why are you talking about feats in this discussion to begin with?
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What feats are you talking about and why are you talking about feats in this discussion to begin with?
😬
Sir, I examined some of those links in the section you quoted.
The question you should rather ask your friend is: "Why are you showing someone augmented with a BLACK LANTERN RING (Superboy) as that person under normal conditions?"
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What feats are you talking about and why are you talking about feats in this discussion to begin with?
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view¤t=SuperboyvsTeenTitans5.jpg
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view¤t=SuperboyvsTeenTitans6.jpg
Magical lightning isn't some auto-win against superman.
Also before you believe whatever blue said about sunlight, superman was affected by kryptonite there. Here is an actual sun amped superman nearly killed by synthetic kryptonite.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/ManOfTomorrow13g.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8456/supermanvsjlamot1320.jpg
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Wonder Woman's lighting attack WOULD hurt [Superman] ...
that is unless he is written by the same fanboy writer that decided he wanted to ignore Superman's weakness to kryptonite ...
Originally posted by bluewaterriderIf you're referring to Greg Rucka in Sacrifice (Wonder Woman #219, Volume 2), it might be a good time to point out the powerful, often unacknowledged, role sunlight plays in many Superman battles.
It affects how strong he and other Kryptonians are, it affects how fast they heal, it affects how much punishment they can take and shrug off, and, yes, it even affects how resistant they are to kryptonite.
I've already shown how effective even small doses of yellow sunlight can be to a Kryptonian.
-- Just shining it like a flashlight gives Kara Zor-el AND Karen Starr boosts in strength and energy they can feel and demonstrate (in Karen's case by breaking Kara's hold and tossing her away with a sweep of her arm).
-- A quick zap restores a Superman drained nearly to exhaustion in Fate's tower in JLA JSA Vice and Virtue.
I've also hinted at how large amounts make a big difference. Superman himself, sometimes brought down by little more than human force and a tiny finger-ring's worth of kryptonite, endures in Man of Tomorrow #13, exposure from a chunk the size of a football or so. It taxes him greatly, and takes him out of the fight, to be sure, but he tells us himself that his prior exposure to the sun, as he got rid of most of Earth's nukes that week, enabled him to absorb enough to survive the experience. Without it, he is certain he would have died.
DC writers seem almost universally familiar with the concept, written here, albeit in somewhat oversimplified form: more sun=more power.
The encounters in Greg Rucka's Sacrifice support this idea as much as any other storyline.
Witness how Superman fares against Diana in Sacrifice WITHOUT the advantage of surprise and subsequent sun-amping he'll enjoy in Wonder Woman #219
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808208
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808209
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808212
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808214
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Source: Adventures of Superman #642, Volume 1
Writer: Greg Rucka
Penciller: Karl Kerschl, Derec Donovan, Cam Smith, & Sean Parsons
Date: September 2005
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Adventures_of_Superman_Vol_1_642
Quite a bit different.
No physical force directed specifically against Diana works in that case.
Rather Max Lord, quite intelligently, has Superman create a diversion Diana MUST respond to, in order to save the life of a friend.
There isn't much to suggest Superman could have escaped from the position Wonder Woman had him in otherwise. No freeze breath or heat vision makes the difference here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808217
But, as outlined before, for a Kryptonian, more sun=more power.
Witness how much of an effect merely tripling the amount of sun exposure makes to Superman's own cousin:
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http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388598
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388599
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388600
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388609
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388612
Massive increases in strength and speed.
So much so that, at first, even she can't control herself.
Massive increases in healing ability as well. Later on in that story, for instance, Kara will suffer almost unimaginable trauma, as the villain, able to predict nearly every move of the heroes, expertly sets Kara up for impalement by a powerful kryptonite drill. The damage is horrific. You can see even without being shown that she's been literally ventilated straight through her upper center. Under normal conditions, even for her, that would have resulted in death. Thanks to the fact that she is under 3 times the amount of sunlight she is normally exposed to however ...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14442402
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Source: The Brave and the Bold #6, Volume 3
Writer: Mark Waid
Penciller: George Perez
Date: October 2007
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Brave_and_the_Bold_Vol_3_6
Perhaps an even better analogy can be drawn from an episode just a year or so prior to Sacrifice. If a "super" is more powerful after nearness to a sun and journeying back to Earth, what happens if they take an opponent TO the sun with them? We get an answer when Superman, with some initial help from Wonder Woman, takes on Darkseid:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859474
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859476
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859482
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859483
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859489
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http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859506
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Source: Superman/Batman #13, Volume 1
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Penciller: Michael Turner
Date: October 2004
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman/Batman_Vol_1_13
The process is nearly identical. Superman catches his opponent off balance and rockets them straight to the sun's surface where the harsh environment plays havoc with them but increases his power geometrically, perhaps even exponentially. Darkseid, so powerful on Apokolips, so powerful even on Earth, is very soon made a victim with a broken arm. There is a great deal to support that having his Omega Beams reflected back at him made the task of getting him to that point much easier, yes, but it's still hard to deny sun-amping gave Superman considerable advantage over what he normally would have.
Just as he enjoys in Sacrifice's final battle.
I know I saw somewhere mentioned that Diana never uses her cuffs, or has only used them to generate lightning on 1 occasion, or has never done it with somebody as high in tier as Superman.
That's not really true. I think all but the most devout of Clark's fans would admit he is not superior to a god from any pantheon.
Well ...
It is noted that there are no evidence of Superman being powered up in Sacrifice, he was instead weakened by kryptonite. Blue is being blue again.
Also superman was on the surface of the sun against Darkseid, in sacrifice he wasn't.
All this and more wouldn't convince blue anyway. Also more sunlight=more power isn't always true.
I was particularly struck by this showing not only because it has Diana using it on someone high-tier, but because it also shows effective against someone physically stronger than Diana trying to shove her into something really, really hot.
I've had another storyline described to me like that, though the accuracy of that description pertaining to that other story is a bit dubious ...
To recap:
Kara Zor-el and Karen Starr demonstrate even low levels of yellow sunlight can make a big difference to Kryptonians:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13850804
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13850829
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Source: Supergirl #1, Volume 5
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Penciller: Ian Churchill
Date: October 2005
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Supergirl_Vol_5_1
Stargirl recharges Superman from near collapse with her staff's solar energy.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13850772
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Source: JLA/JSA. Virtue and Vice.
Writer: Geoff Johns
Penciller: Carlos Pacheco
Date: December 2002
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/JLA/JSA:_Virtue_and_Vice
Earlier heightened sun exposure enables Superman to tackle the Justice League AND survive what would have been, according to him, a fatal dose of kryptonite radiation.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849443
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849445
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849446
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849450
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849454
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849457
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13849465
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Source: Superman, the Man of Tomorrow #13, Volume 1
Writer: Louise Simonson
Penciller: Paul Ryan
Date: Spring 1999
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman:_Man_of_Tomorrow_Vol_1_13
Prior to fighting near the sun, Superman must resort to INDIRECT force to thwart Diana in Rucka's Sacrifice.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808208
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808209
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808212
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808214
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Source: Adventures of Superman #642, Volume 1
Writer: Greg Rucka
Penciller: Karl Kerschl, Derec Donovan, Cam Smith, & Sean Parsons
Date: September 2005
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Adventures_of_Superman_Vol_1_642
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13808217
Supergirl demonstrates the power granted by merely tripling normal sun exposure of a Kryptonian.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388598
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388599
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388600
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388609
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14388612
... as well as extraordinary healing ability following massive kryptonite-induced trauma.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14442402
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Source: The Brave and the Bold #6, Volume 3
Writer: Mark Waid
Penciller: George Perez
Date: October 2007
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Brave_and_the_Bold_Vol_3_6
Superman demonstrates how sun-amping enables him to take on even Darkseid, following a Wonder Woman-assisted start on Earth.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859474
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859476
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859482
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859483
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859489
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859493
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13859506
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Source: Superman/Batman #13, Volume 1
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Penciller: Michael Turner
Date: October 2004
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http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman/Batman_Vol_1_13
The corona of our Sun. Sacrifice's decisive, oft-forgotten stage:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14442586
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Aegeus reveals that, although Wonder Woman is equipped against it, the lightning of Zeus has major deleterious effects on Superman.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13966631
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13966634
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13966640
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13966673
Wonder Woman #600, Volume 3
Pele. Diana uses her Zeus-lightning cuffs for defense in a Sacrifice-like scenario.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14442605
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14442612
Diana versus Cottus. Zeus Lightning used to [b]destroy an enemy.[/b]
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14439717
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14439721
