Do the Marvel and Dc multiverses exist within the same creation?

Originally posted by starlock
Not one scan in this whole thread states "marvel has its own omniverse"..not one single panel of repetitive scans-none, and showing references to omniverse in marvel comics does not make it theirs...things like"protectors of the omniverse" "threatened the omniverse" are not direct statements that make it marvels own

A 2005 definition of omniverse from an official marvel handbook of Alternate Universes states that marvel shares its omniverse with other companies
http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altuhb2005streetsamuraids2.jpg

Every hanbook entry after is not as thorough, but states -all reality
http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=omni2mz6.jpg

So has marvel changed its stance since 2005? i am to believe that in 2005 marvel stated they share a omniverse with all other companies, and in 2006 till now they changed their stance...? it looks to me that they state ALL REALITY

Crossovers have been shown as proof more that once in this thread, and in the hanbooks those crossovers have been mentioned

A marvel site has updated their definition of the omniverse-
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe

And it states marvel shares an omniverse, the writer of the hanbook is the one who updated the site, he has seen this thread and posters who are members of both sites brang it to his attention-yet this person was insulted twice in this thread-shamefull really
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=44342&page=1&pp=20

Btw this guy just happen to be the guy who wrote the entry for impossible man and JASPERS

There is one Omniverse and all companies and even our universe is in it . like it or not thats the facts

The proof i get for marvels own omniverse is
"The entity believed to be the Supreme being/Creator of the Omniverse"

The best you can do is give me a quote that says BELIEVED TO BE...why cant there be definitive proof? and then well you change the definition..unbelieveable

Mr master
"This is from the Glossary of Terms of Winter 2007

Definition of the Omniverse:

"Group of alternate universeS which encompasses ALL Reality"

======= CREATED by TOAA ========="

Then you take it upon yourself to decide that it was TOAA without a doubt? is that a lie? or misleading people? or is it a mistake?
You change the definition and wonder why we cant see eye to eye?

Believed to be...i just cant fathom the need to be right and post this uncertainty, and then change the definition

Mr Master
"Insectoid alien explorers discover an observatory outside of space-time,
named ... later the Crystal Palace,
the equipment allowed them to observe every Reality in the Omniverse.

Eventually,
accidentally they caused All Creation (Omniverse) to become displaced"

So they say they can observe the omniverse yet refer to all creation?
So you can connect all creation and put omniverse right next to it?, why could it not be All of marvels reality in the omniverse that it shares with others, and by copywright law they cant ackowledge DC so not proof at all

Again
Mr Master
On Panel:

That's why the Exiles were chosen to "fix realities" across the Omniverse:

This FACT ... is repeated on every first page of an Exiles comic book On Panel:

"Exiles ... repairing damaged Realities and protecting the Omniverse"

So because they repair damaged realities and protect the omniverse means its marvel.......gibberish, repost of no importance

Again...this is just bad

Mr Master

UPDATED!!!!!

This is from the Glossary of Terms of Winter 2007

Definition of the Omniverse:

"Group of alternate universeS which encompasses ALL Reality"

======= CREATED by TOAA =========

So you updated believed to be into"created"...handled above

And this also...

Mr Master
On Panel ... coincidentally,

Brian protects the SAME exact definition/Omniverse above: (that TOAA CREATED)

"Reality ... Brian came to realize the size and breadth of Reality,
he learned of the Omniverse and its unending alternatives,
Alternative Realities ...
the Omniverse is the collection of All those possibilities.

So referencing and showing A OMNIVERSE does not make it marvels
And again you changed believed into "created"

Mr Master
This is the Official Glossary of Terms of Winter 2007.

You missed the entry right below - "All Reality"

... The CREATOR of "All that Reality" ---- TOAA (Marvel's Supreme Being)

I missed the entry, then what did you do by leaving out"believed to be"?
this is just as you say a joke

Mr Master
In 2005 (in that single Glossary-NO on panel verification of any mind)
Marvel is considered a Megaverse.

In 2006 (in LT's Official Handbook - with On Panel verification)
The LT holds the power of TWO MegaverseS in one hand.

In the Winter 2007 (Glossary of Terms) - with On Panel verification)
The Omniverse are Alternate Universes that encompass all Reality,
All Reality which was CREATED by TOAA. (a Marvel Character)

Is it just me, or is there like either a contradiction there,
or simply a quick Retcon?

You decide.

Is it me or are you constanly leaving out believed to be? this is starting to look like misleading people with scans, btw what if one of the brothers represented DC? anyway no proof

Mr Master
Only TWO Cross-overs have been vaguely and subtly acknowledged.

The JLA/Avengers in only Two separate bios, (Pulsar's and Grandmaster's)
and Silver Surfer/Superman in One bio. (Impossible Man)

=================== This is interesting ================

The JLA/Avengers arc, is NOT considered a "significant" issue, to Pulsar's History:

In other words ... while it's recognized ... it's inconsequential.

I mean, how can such a "major" event as this (where Eternity itself nearly died)
be insignificant?

Perhaps because like Galan and I have said,
Cross-overs are only meaningful withIN the containment of said Cross-over.

...................................................................................

Pulsar's bio is from 2005.
IM and Grandmaster from 2006.

Unfortunately the 2006 bios don't have a "significant" issues section,
but imo, it's safe to assume the same insignificance would be applied.

Again, obviously, not every appearance is mentioned of the character,
but something as BIG as this, should be,
unless it's well ... insignificant.

All i see is alot of your opinions on things and what you assume,perhaps, and think might be...further evidence of nothing

Originally posted by Mr Master
No offense, but this meaningless.

Marvel Comics (On Panel) >>> Marvel official handbooks >>> Marvel.com/Marvunapp

Other sites ... will not even be considered.

I don't think any sensible debater
will start using "Comixfan" as their resource for evidence.

I sure, I wonder why he forgot he wrote this:

.....................................................................................................

Official Marvel Handbook clip - 2008 - Exiles BIO ...

"Exiles teamed with Excalibur,
to stop Jaspers & the Fury from destroying the [B]Omniverse"

..................................................................................................... [/B]

So now you are the only one who determines the criteria for debating?and your the only one to determine what is sensible? or did you run a poll and see if its the majority...is this ego? i dont know what to think except i am lucky i have my own mind and use my own criteria for debating

And whats the problem with them stating someone wants to destroy the omniverse? and why is it suddenly only marvels omniverse?

Every one of your points have been your opinions and pages of your scans covering up alot of the views of posters is disturbing, and the fact that you like to put your own word in some of these is hard to swallow, add to it your leaving out of certain words to fit your theory is suspect at the least

And you have the nerve of accusing me of having a sock and being one also?
You also accuse me of editing the marvel site?
You insult another site and that poster claiming they must be an idiot for not agreeing with you

What do you exspect a hand in friendship? for me to be convinced of your theory on the omniverse?
Like i said show me respect and i will return the favor

that scan seems to say marvel is a megaverse.

Originally posted by xjustice69x

that scan seems to say marvel is a megaverse.

So maybe when LT is holding the two megaverses, one of them is DC? that could be possible....we know that the retcon was done by marvel and cannot use DC because of copywrite laws...hmmmmm gotta check out that scan of LT...better yet i will try and find the whole comic with that story

so...the omniverse includes real life ?
makes sense
i remember this one night i was walking along the street and all of a sudden lampposts started leaping to life and the sky turned pink with light purple clouds that formed amusing shapes
i myself was now four-legged with a broomhandle for a head

but next thing i knew
i was me again and everything else was normal

so...it wasn't i ate the wrong kind of mushrooms
it was the Scarlet Witch's reality warp that effected the whole omniverse and thus me and the rest of you

don't you all remember ?

😛

Originally posted by 123KID
so...the omniverse includes real life ?
makes sense
i remember this one night i was walking along the street and all of a sudden lampposts started leaping to life and the sky turned pink with light purple clouds that formed amusing shapes
i myself was now four-legged with a broomhandle for a head

but next thing i knew
i was me again and everything else was normal

so...it wasn't i ate the wrong kind of mushrooms
it was the Scarlet Witch's reality warp that effected the whole omniverse and thus me and the rest of you

don't you all remember ?

😛

Is that an attempt at debating?...
From the perspcetive of the comic world....yes we are a part of the omniverse,notice that in certain comics characters brake into our reality where artist and such are shown...like she hulk

Since i dont resort to insults and foul language whats to say, i feel sorry for you, it must really hurt to watch and read people debate when its somthing you are not capable of...sad really

i'd like you to look at my post and point out where i insulted or used foul language against you
in fact where is it said anywhere the post is to you or involves you at all ?
oh right...nowhere

what's sad is your apparent ego problem where you have to make up things just to feel involved

Originally posted by 123KID

so...it wasn't i ate the wrong kind of mushrooms

Originally posted by 123KID
i'd like you to look at my post and point out where i insulted or used foul language against you
in fact where is it said anywhere the post is to you or involves you at all ?
oh right...nowhere

what's sad is your apparent ego problem where you have to make up things just to feel involved

Id like for you to read my post and show me where i stated you insulted me?

I have nothing good to say to you so i did not insult you

Me with the ego problem heh haha..sorry wrong person

Also i notice you dont address my point about when she hulk pops out of the comics and yells at the editor....is that not supposed to show the REAL WORLD? so yes from a comic book perspective the real world is in the omniverse

Originally posted by Juntai
Nope, those were the right mushrooms.

I have not had decent mushrooms in years, hard to find these days 🙂

At the end of the day, Marvel has made a statement, they have yet to contradict that statement or publish anything which discredits that statement.

Marvel has said that its collection of realities exists within the omniverse alongside those of other comic book companies. Whilst we have no word from the likes of Dark Horse or TopCow, we do have multiple DC collobarative works which support this notion(crossovers). On top of that we have a DC continuity title that continues where the Marvel/DC crossover left off.

How exactly do scans of Exiles,Roma etc saying they can survey the entire omniverse equate to the omniverse being made solely of Marvels properties? It doesn't. ❌

Marvel publishing a comic book where there are omniversal consequences doesn't equate to the omniverse being made up of just Marvel realities.

As long as DC's properties aren't depicted in such works then Marvel is completely at liberty to say such things.

I have linked to articles from Handbook writers talking of that very point.

Scans with such omniversal references are explained away and don't disprove Marvels statement. I have linked to Marvel.com and Marvunapp where handwriters have talked about how DC is within the same omniverse however due to copyright Marvel is limited in how it can refer to DC's property, hence vague terms like LT's spectral hooded ally(The Spectre) or the verdant will powered energies of an emerald gladiator(for Kyle Rayner Green Lantern). Such copyright restrictions are why when the omniverse is talked of in a Marvel title, you will only ever see Marvel realities depicted. It is only in a carefully planned and legalised crossover that you will see both companies properties interacting with each other.

Handbook scans from 06 and 07 have been presented where brief explanations of the omniverse are given. Omission does not equate to a change in perspective for the company. The statement i provided was from the handbook on Alternate Dimensions. It was a publication specifically on the matter, therefore its explanations were inherently more in depth.

An explanation of a term from an Exiles or Living Tribunal bio where the focus is on the character/s and their backgrounds is obviously going to contain less information and be less extensive in its explanation. Once again, ommision does not equate to a change of perspective.

Marvel.com, marvunapp.com, the handbooks various crossovers and DC's JLA title all support that statement and directly illustrate or refer to the fact that the two comapnies properties exist within the same creation. A menagerie of scans from a Marvel comic where DC characters are not shown to be around, or where the entire omniverse is said to be affected do not disprove Marvels statement when there are various Marvel sources referring to the issue of copyright being the barrier between such interaction.

If you truly believe that the two are separate, then please justify that belief by presenting a statement from Marvel or DC directly on the issue (like i have) which states that the two companies properties are within two separate fictional omniverses and that all crossovers which were previously confirmed as canon are no longer so. Anything less than that is a waste of time. 😬

Stuart Vandal
OHOTMU Writer

He's already dropped Marvel.com since it no longer backs him. He'll be unable to argue the Handbooks support him when they restate the Omniverse definition in a few more months - though frankly, if he read the handbooks properly, he'd already know that, as recent bios continue to reference JLA/Avengers. But I'm sure as the handbooks state the Omniverse includes non-Marvel realities, he'll state the handbooks don't count either, and only "On-Panel" matters. So I'd like to draw your attention to what I'd already said in one of my posts in the Omniverse thread here.

Omniverse includes all realities - he accepts that definition, but insists that it can only be all Marvel realities. But Invincible (Image Comics) and Spider-Man (Marvel Comics) met in an "in-continuity," "on-panel" crossover. As I noted "That's not shown in any special mini-series which might be considered "out of continuity," it's shown in Invincible's own title and the very much in-continuity Marvel Team-Up. So Marvel and Image share an Omniverse." To expand on that last sentence - we've seen that when Invincible took a trip across several realities, Marvel (616) was one of them. Seen ON-PANEL as Mr. Master would like to put it. That means that by the definition of Omniverse ("includes all realities"😉 Image must be in the Omniverse that Marvel is in - they are, after all, both realities. But if a very-clearly non-Marvel reality is part of the Omniverse, then it can't be a Marvel Omniverse - QED. And that's without then going into the other realities Image has crossed over with "in-continuity" and "on-panel," which serve to demonstrate even more non-Marvel realities in the Omniverse.

It wouldn't surprise me if he still tries to discount this - but he can't have it both ways. He can't legitimately claim that only the panels he chooses count, especially when his choice of panels are open to other interpretation, while the Invincible-Spidey crossover isn't.

That is from Stuart Vandal OHOTMU Writer, who has had communications with me since i joined comixfans.com

I dont know why it is even up for debate anymore, but somtimes people can be stubborn

Its all to do with agenda Starlock.

If he publicly concedes then people will realise that i've been right all along and that his hierarchy is agenda defined bullshit

According to Mr Master, his interpretation of Marvel comic scans is greater than official handbooks and any other official source that is in disagreement. 👇

I see, i see, i know he is better than this though, i have always said he is smart and resourcefull...and that is my genuine feelings,his anger leads to mistakes and his frustrations cause errors in judgement

But for the life of me i struggle with his replacement of words and his methods that he tries and push on everone, and i am at my wits end with his foul language.....have you ever tried to sit down with your kids and share the joy of this site? I will admit he has slowed down with the language..untill recently.. but like i said his frustrations lead to errors in judgement

Why not post your scans tell your opinon and let us debate?

Originally posted by starlock
I see, i see, i know he is better than this though, i have always said he is smart and resourcefull...and that is my genuine feelings,his anger leads to mistakes and his frustrations cause errors in judgement

But for the life of me i struggle with his replacement of words and his methods that he tries and push on everone, and i am at my wits end with his foul language.....have you ever tried to sit down with your kids and share the joy of this site? I will admit he has slowed down with the language..untill recently.. but like i said his frustrations lead to errors in judgement

Why not post your scans tell your opinon and let us debate?

You're right, he's not stupid, he's just debating stupidly. For him this isn't about uncovering the truth, its just about getting as many people as possible to agree with his thoughts on how the Marvel hierarchy should be.

Thats why points are never countered, but are instead met with mocking, insults and then arguments are covered up by a ton of reposts.

Don't fall for it anymore. Do not engage him point for point. We've said all we need to say, presented all we need to present. Just ask him to show us where Marvel has stated in an official source that its fictional omniverse is separate from that of other comic book companies. Ask him to show us a statement from Marvel and DC stating that their previous acknowledgement of a crossover as canon has now been reversed.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by manjaro
ok i admit this is becoming marginally insane now. my only intent was to just add my two cents. iv agreed with some points GS made and Ive agreed with Some MM made. however as an end result some where along the way we have to interject common sense. the simple fact that one company was created decades before the other...the simple fact that until 18-24 months ago give or take, [B]DC only had one universe , should prove that the two are separate.......way before all the scans and the "duh factor" of both companies having the rights to thier own intellectual property

way before all the handbook entries and the simple fact that MArvels arrogance would have to be beyond boundless to arbitrarily include all other companies in thier omniverse......i would challenge anyone, anyone to show that any other company has been going crazy about an omniverse other than Marvel, but that would be another rant. and we dont need another one of those...that would be like saying there are cars made by ford, and honda sooo obviously the same guy created both under different aliases of Henry Ford and Soichiro Honda.......dont u see how f ****ed on the head this is ppl?.....also how can there be ppl claiming that our world is in the Marvel Omniverse and not be f ****ed in the head??!!??? seriuolsy im not even trying to be funny. [/B]

All it comes down to is that we as readers do not dictate canon, we are merely presented with it. We can mock it, we can hate and personally disregard it all we like, but when it comes to debating what is actually canon we cannot ignore statements which conclusively shed light on a matter.

Marvel has said its collection of realities exist in an omniverse alongside the properties of other comic book companies. It has highlighted this perspective by collaborating with Dc on a number of crossovers which Marvel has acknowledged as canon by referencing them in their handbooks and DC bu continuing the crossover story in their JLA title.

On top of that Handbook writers talk of the limits placed on interaction between the two companies by copyright. That is why in a Marvel comic, you will only ever see the omniverse depicted from a Marvel perspective and DC properties will and have only been vaguely referenced(e.g "spectral hooded ally", "the verdant will powered energies of an emerald gladiator"😉 So Marvel can talk of the omniverse all it likes, it can do whatever it wants to the omniverse as long as another companies properties are not depicted or referred to as being affected.

Multiple scans therefore from a Marvel comic stating how the omniverse was nearly destroyed then saved, or the continuum was messed up but is in the process of being fixed is not evidence that the two collection of realities are separate.

Also regardless of when the two comic book companies were created in relation to each other that doesn't change what the companies now say is canon. When a retcon happens you're supposed to treat that change as if it was always the case, not that it only occurred when you read that issue. 😕

Marvel comics reference past events way before their real world 20th century publication dates, are we to act as if these fictional creations had their Big Bang and jumped right to the 20th century as soon as the first reader opened their comic book? ❌

All i'm saying is like it or lump it Marvel has spoken, the contrary argument presented is just opinion, it is a string of vaguely relevant scans accompanied by an argument telling us how Marvels assessment of their own comics is wrong and this comic fans assessment is the one to go by. 🤨

You're better than this Manjaro.