Originally posted by manjaro
i know for a momen there in between my rants it seemed like i was bandwagon jumping, but im not....i wasnt even going by MM's scans per se
Because as you saw in my slew of scans,
they were all written and drawn by me.
Originally posted by manjarothis i agree with..events are only referenced and relevant via crossovers
but here is where i depart. the simple fact that Marvel comics was created by an individual who set out to create a comic company called "Marvel comics" and vice versa for a guy who set out to create "DC comics" is what makes the difference for me. the only link these entities share are canonical crossovers of which there are only two. Three if you wanna get technical cuz afterall the brothers were retconned to being the sentient avatars/Gaurdians of two respective megaverses.. MU also shares yet another link with Image via Invincible. and very loosley Savage Dragon and the only time these crossovers become relevant or even brought up specifically is in reference to that previous event....and have no lasting effect. sometimes they are never brought up again at all
if the two entities are one and the same how would you reconcile there being two supreme beings... TOAA and the Presence, who act in two different ways [insert joke about god acting in myterious ways]...DC is more religiously themed with there being a "God" and a "Heaven" who really did send his only begotten son to die for our sins while Marvel is more like "I am God and i create other beings who carry out specific functions for me"....BTW remember when in FF 511 Reed and his Peeps actually met TOAA who turned out to be depicted as any given writer at any given time who is working on any given story For Marvel comics ?...that was when Reed made his comment that he couldnt believe that "the wellspring of all reality came from a yellow stick" where as in DC the Presence has never been depicted beyond a truly myterious figure who truly acts in myterious ways.
Also think about the LT for a second....... now according to marvel.com in his Bio it says that "The Living Tribunal is an omnipotent entity which presides over all realities and universes , including the main Universe, Earth X, the Ultimate Universe, and all other alternate and potential realities" one needs to pay attention to those words carefully . whether one has faith in the site or not you must admit, that job description is pretty straight forward and doesnt really leave any room for debate or misinterpretation......it has also been established on panel that LT "Exists in all mutiverses simultaneously."which i would assume to be all the multiverse in creation....... aka the omniverse. 😬 Also on panel it makes mention of him having to consult his "hooded spectral ally" also in that same shot we see the Brothers dancing in LT's hand. ok so here is where im going with all this. the same way we clearly see the Spectre is basically the Presence's right hand man, and naturally we can argue the same relationship between LT and TOAA. if LT is established as being a unique being in creation who is above all other cosmics and exists everywhere at once.....barring copyright violations, why doesnt he exist in DC? meaning..why would there be another like himself in another plane of existence who he acknowledges not as an underling,puppet,servant,minion, vice chancellor, or his bed wench, but an ally , an ally he needed help from to complete a task.
to conclude . It is well established and accpeted that LT is basically the omniversal gorvernor of marvel. in fact we could say that he is the true omniversal Guardian...Starlight Citadel be damned...we have seen on panel that power artifacts from marvel did not work in DC and vice versa...we have seen on panel that LT considers the Spectre an ally, an equal if you will, not someone who is under him or lesser in power and prestige.
Long story short if we were to read into this shared omniverse concept the way it has been argued thus far, especially after all we have seen on panel and in handbooks that means that at best DC is a Megaverse that exists within Marvel, as one of the Brothers represents the totality of one company and of course we see them battling in LT's hand and at Worst DC is an alternate universe that exists within Marvel with just a yet to be disclosed numerical designation, seeing as how, LT who is supremely unique had to seek out a guy just like him, who baaaasically performs the same function he does to help him out with a situation. and most importantly seeing as how up until 2.5 yrs ago DC had just One Earth in One universe
both of these scenarios i refuse to acceptit harkens back to my original stance that MArvel has been the one creaming their undies about the omniverse..all mention,feelings, and graphical illustrations of the omniverse has been marvel's doing, its thier baby and they are the ones raising it.. all crossovers canon or not has been Marvel's thing. in fact the word omniverse wouldnt have came about in comics if it want for Gruenwald, who was working for.....you guessed it, Marvel comics...
Respectfully, and Objectively yours,
Jaro
Originally posted by manjarolook i know im not the fellow who normally posts a gaggle of scans, and everyone hates this by now but bare with me here for a moment .....I misinterpret nothing. here in a thought bubble it sums up the idea that the omniverse is an unending number of alternate realities and that it is a collection of all possibilties.
here is where it says on panel that LT exists in all multiverses simultaneously. note it said all, not a few or some or a choice selection, but all ....so in other words if he exists simultaneously in every single universe in every multiverse sooner or later all those realites are gonna tally up to the omniverse. this is basic intuitive reasoning here. and remember, marvel was the one who said there is only one omniverse.
On LT's bio on Marvel.com, a direct qoute from it says "The Living Tribunal is an omnipotent entity which presides over all realities and universes, including the main Universe, Earth X, the Ultimate Universe, and all other alternate and potential realities ."
One Last item about LT. right here its says plain and straight that he doesnt have any counterparts in other realties
To conclude... here is where im going with all this...no more scans after this i swear 😉
None of this can be reconciled unless each comic company has ther own omniverse. wasnt it sherlock holmes who said it best when he said "once you have eliminated all possiblities, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth."? marvel says it right there in the above scan that there is only one omniverse. and gave a defintion for it. it says no where that "its collection of realities and those of other companies " like u claimed.
so unless we are gonna start discrediting bio entries on marvel.com or official handbooks, we already know that LT presides over all realites, not just a select collection. all of them, thats his tag. so if all realties are in question and you want to include all others then DC and anybody else would be under his umbrella. especially if we are going by what Marvel's defintion of an omniverse is and what LT's role is. But that train of thought all goes to shit when the Spectre shows up and sees LT already fulfilling the right-man-handship of the Creator.
Lastly, going by strict definition DC isnt an omniverse, but rather a single multiverse. Wildstorm used to have its own multiverse but it has been retconned to being a single universe...Earth 50 to be exact. again with the above scan in the very last sentence it gives a defintion for what a Megaverse is...which is a collection of associated realms from different multiverses . what that means is:
Possibilty#1. Though DC has a slew of associated realms like Heaven, hell, limbo, shadowverse, Darkworld, mirrorverse, 4th world, Dreamscape, Dimensions 1-9(presumably there are more but 9 is the farthest they have shown on panel) the simple fact that it is a singular multiverse eliminates it from being a megaverse. after the brothers retcon megaverses only exist in marvel
Possibility#2. The simple fact that Both LT and Spectre are singular beings who are equal in power pending the mandate of each one's creator and have met and consulted with each other proves that neither are alternate versions of one another. this elimates DC from being an Alternate or possible reality for we know that LT doesnt have any counterparts and we know point blank that his function is to preside over all realities not a special collection of them ...all of them. and all realities = the omniverse..there is no getting around that. so DC could not be included in the same omniversal space and not be presided over by LT. so the only possible truth is that all companies have thier own thing going
you see this is exactly what im talking about. youre making my argument for me. you cant have it both ways guy. you clearly acknowledge and accept that marvel has its own collection of realities. and that DC has its own but you feel that they perpetually share the same omniverse. it doesnt make any sense for them to be a part of something yet separate from it at the same time. Based on the criteria that marvel has defined for what makes up the omniverse or any others couldnt be inlcuded.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Marvel multiverse is the name given to describe all of the marvel realities that share the traditional hierarchy of the abstracts.Some writers consider each of these realities to be a multiverse unto themselves,
why?Because look at Eternity 616 for example,
associated with him you have other dimensions such as Asgard, Mephistos realm, the Negative Zone, hyperspace where the Celestials come from and others. All of those alternate dimensions associated with Eternity 616.
The Beyonder even stated the point on panel:
And I'll call it a fallacy
because I've corrected you many times on this particular scan.
.................................................................................................................
What GS won't show you is the NEXT page of that issue,
where Shooter depicts Beyonder traveling through the actual Multiverse,
not just the 616 Reality:
Beyonder passes by the Microverse.
(located in a Universe outside and separate from the 616 Reality)
The Dark Dimension is also outside of 616.
Beyonder even reaches the Cross Roads of Infinity located in the Negative Zone
(also located Way outside the 616 universe)
.................................................................................................................
Nice try.
Mr Master can you explain why your method for validating a feat or a definition thats up for grabs, is better than anyone else's? and why must we use your method as the criteria we must meet? i find it hard to understand why alot of your post dont end in "In My Opinion"or "i would suggest that we need bio,on panel,etc"
alot of posters might think you and your methods are the only ones to adhere to and that if your criteria is not met than the site as a whole will not take said information as proof or even as a alternative method
Like this....
Mr Master..
If he's really who is, and has Marvel juice,
tell em to make an official entry in the next set of Handbooks,
and tell em to get a Marvel Writer to confirm it On Panel,
otherwise it's just a rogue writer's words against, On Panel illustrations,
On Panel statements by characters and Writers,
Official Bios confirming said events concerning the entire Omniverse.
That's all.
That is your opinion that all, and i would think that it would end there, but you seem to want to be the end all and be all of everything
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The point has been stated a number of times on panel.Dimensions are universes:
So this, does Not in any way support your 616 Realtiy is a Multiverse idea.
(that's NEVER been mentioned anywhere, or even alluded to being a possibility)
Dimensions are Universes, that's ture,
but pocket Dimensions are NOT.
Asgard and Mephisto's realms are pocket dimensions.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Many universes within the so called Marvel multiverse
are composed of multiple dimensions themselves:
Because the dimensions share the same cosmic hierarchy they are grouped into a single cluster(hence why one of these multi dimensional continuums are still referred to as a universe) and each of these clusters is LT’s responsibility[/QUOTE]
What?
Ok, this is typical, but I'll be nice and just post the facts.
Both those Scans from "Dr Strange Sorcerer Supreme #21"
is describing the actual Multiverse.
Here's the ENTIRE PAGE ... (of the First Scan ABOVE)
✅
He then goes on to describe the LT's function in OTHER Clusters (MltiverseS)
..................................................................................................
Here's the FULL explanation (concerning the Second Scan)
..................................................................................................
"Man's Universe (Multiverse)
has it's own Infinite number of variants known as Alternate Universes,
explored by the Watchers, (the Watchers explore the Multiverse)
All these variants share the same Three Spatial Dimensions
and obey roughly the same Laws"
..................................................................................................
"There are Universes
whose number of Spatial Dimensions range between 2.7 etc and 6.2 etc,
these all share a commonality of Concepts,
hence they are grouped into a Cluster, (a Multiverse)
Man's Cluster is One of the responsibilities of the Living Tribunal"
..................................................................................................
"Universes ... with lower or higher Dimensions ... are Truly different"
"even there Life exists, in Forms totally inconceivable to mankind"
"There the Living Tribunal takes Other Shapes
to Administer to Other Clusters" (MultiverseS)
...................................................................................
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This basically proves the point that Marvels universes are pseudo multiverses referred to as universes and yet all of them together are still referred to as the Marvel multiverse and it is this that LT is stated to be in charge of.
Ha, manharo debated you so well you went into a world of make-believe to win.
This all explains why you will get the occasional writer referring to "the multiverses" such as featured in your scan, yet despite that all of those realms are deemed The Marvel multiverse.
If you look at the 06 LT you have presented, it doesn’t talk of multiverses, it talks of LT’s role within the multiverse, it states that LT has no counterpart not in all of the multiverses, but in the multiverse.
It seems your single scan followed the idea that each of these alternate realities we are given a glimpse of via publications such as What If’s are multiverses themselves, pseudo multiverses. That explains that comic scans statement.
LT’s presence and role has primarily been limited to the Marvel multiverse that is his domain.
When he decided to act outside of the multiverse, he called on the aid of the Spectre from DC’s multiverse and together they created the Brothers.
I see the LT and Spectre as peers in very separate multiverses.
Originally posted by GalacticStormI didn't find you repetitive at all, in fact i thought your argument was well structured.
Just to summarize, your misinterpretation that LT's role is omniversal and that he himself exists within all realities of the omniverse was incorrect and flawed because it was based solely on one scan which used the reference "multiverses".
Using this single reference,
supposition came into play and the aforementioned misinterpretation arose.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIn a multitude of sources it has been established over the years that a large number if not all alternate realities within Marvels multiverse can be deemed pseudo multiverses themselves, which is why you will get references such as "multiverses" even though LT is said to watch over the Marvel multiverse.
Handled, right above.
Originally posted by starlockMr Master can you explain
why your method for validating a feat or a definition thats up for grabs,
is better than anyone else's?
What're you talking about?
I'm simple, if it's On Panel, it happened, (yet, one can still be debated)
if what happened On Panel is confirmed in the Official Handbooks (you can't be debated)
My claims are straight from Marvel Comics (On Panel /Handbooks)
So your beef is with them, not me, who's simply conveying what Marvel claims
Originally posted by starlock
and why must we use your method as the criteria we must meet?
You do, you believe what you want.
Originally posted by starlocki find it hard to understand why alot of your post dont end in "In My Opinion"or "i would suggest that we need bio,on panel,etc"
If I believe I'm correct, (with On Panel proof) why should I?
Do you have to state "Imo ... the Thor has class 100 strength"
No,
why?
Caue we know it's true.
Originally posted by starlockalot of posters might think you and your methods are the only ones to adhere to
and that if your criteria is not met than the site as a whole will not take said information
as proof or even as a alternative method
Who are these people you're referrring to?
Again, I don't care who's making cliams at Comixfan,
if it contradicts On Panel illustrated depictions,
and Official Handbooks that CONFIRM said On Panel illustrated depictions,
I have to ignore this voice's opinion vs Marvel Comic's On Panel/Handbook facts.
Originally posted by starlock
Like this....
Mr Master..
If he's really who is, and has Marvel juice,
tell em to make an official entry in the next set of Handbooks,
and tell em to get a Marvel Writer to confirm it On Panel,
otherwise it's just a rogue writer's words against, On Panel illustrations,
On Panel statements by characters and Writers,
Official Bios confirming said events concerning the entire Omniverse.That's all.
This is the only way this dude will have any merit, IMO.
Originally posted by starlockThat is your opinion that all, and i would think that it would end there
Originally posted by starlockbut you seem to want to be the end all and be all of everything
now that ive had some time to do some thinking, i dont wanna be too hard on dude cuz im sure he wasnt presented with the entirety of my post, and if he is actually marvel staff i sorta feel kinda honored that he would respond but here is where it gets a little tricky cuz this statement:
Originally posted by Stuart Vandal
Yes, they've met, and no, they aren't alternate versions of one another. LT at least doesn't have alternate versions. However they don't fulfill exactly the same role either, so even if LT's mandate included the DC multiverse, that doesn't cause any real conflict. The "Creator" can have more than one "right-hand man" if he wants.
is pure opinion....of course he can have more than one right hand man if he wants, he's the creator after all. but the simple fact of the matter is he doesnt. any thing else is pure conjecture. marvel is the one who claimed that there is only one omniverse. to my knowledge no other company has made the same claim. and just becuz thier have been canonical crossovers that doesnt mean said companies are acknowledgin that there is.
Originally posted by Stuart VandalIt's never going to say "and those of other companies" in a Handbook. Handbooks are written as if the profile writer is an impartial observer to real events - the closest analogy I can think of is how the Watcher might record things - and as such, we'll never refer to "other companies" and more than we would say "in the Marvel universe" in a profile. But I'll repeat again, if there is "only one omniverse" then how can there be an argument for a Marvel Omniverse which is separate from the DC Omniverse or the Image Omniverse .
my point exactly, he too is making my argument for me. either each company has thier own thing going or all other companies exist in Marvel's omniverse...since they were the ones who mainstreamed, defined and popularized the concept......you pick the one that makes more sense to you. when i did my process of elimination thing it was to show why DC couldnt coexist with marvel to show why it doesnt meet the necessary criterion to be a Megaverse, for it is only one multiverse and how it couldnt be an alternate universe cuz Spectre and LT are two separate and unique individuals are equal in power and prestige..i dont think im being hard headed on this one... you cant just pluck stuff outta the air and say "oh well...the creator can have two go-to guys if he wants." to end a debate. the fact is he doesnt, and thats that....... I refuse to accept that Spectre is under LT's mandate...what sense would that make if they are equals? what would make him so special or favored? i see where Gs is coming from with the idea that we as readers cant form our own conclusions, but until either company says otherwise i dont see why i should believe that each company doesnt have thier own omniverse. and if mr vandal is who he says he is then maybe it would behoove him to throw his weight around at marvel and make sure they make it absolutely clear in future handbooks to clear up any misconceptions fans might have.
i would say master's explinations fall more in line with comic book logic, gs's explinations while more real world logic oriented should not be taken soo literally. It's like trying to explain comic book science or magic some of it makes sense with real world rules some of it does not that's why you take their statements with a grain of salt
Just one question, how can a completely different comic company exist with in the same "omniverse" as Marvel? When ever Marvel has used the term omniverse surely its just referring to every thing that it publishes existing with in the same creation. It doesn't really matter what any one thinks DC does not and never will be part of that omniverse. Sure you can say there is one fan made omniverse that includes every comic ever but it will never officially exist regardless of what one company claims / implies.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I think jaro was pointing out
how only Marvel goes out of it's way to involve thius Omniverse in their stories.While other companies, mention it what? ... ever?
I know DC mentioned it once.
Marvel had bio entries, for nearly Two decades referencing the Omniverse in bios.
Nearly 30 years stating it, and invloving it in stories, On Panel.
Marvel literally has illustrated what it looks like (in the physical sense)
by depicting the entire Omniverse (space/time) On Panel
across more than several Marvel titles.
Marvel has published stories where the entire Omniverse has been damaged,
and a few times completely destroyed and re-created.And I agree with that, Marvel may not have the right to the concept,
but it seems that only Marvel implements the Omniverse in stories.
The entire Omniverse that is.We agree Wanda did not tear DC to pieces with the Chaos Wave,
so then,
what Omniverse was it she tore to pieces?Not debating this with ya Jun, just generalizing the paradox.
Its irrelevant if Marvel depicts the omniverse on panel, that doesn't change Marvels statement. Marvel isn't allowed to depict any of DC's properties (as stated by handbook writers as i've presented) because of the limits of copyright, therefore it is only in crossovers that we see the point that they exist within the same omniverse demonstrated.
That fact accounts for all of the times you blab on about Wanda doing this and Roma saying that about the omniverse. As long as DC property isn't depicted by reference or explicit visaulisation then Marvel can do what it wants. 🙂
Originally posted by Magee
Just one question, how can a completely different comic company exist with in the same "omniverse" as Marvel? When ever Marvel has used the term omniverse surely its just referring to every thing that it publishes existing with in the same creation. It doesn't really matter what any one thinks DC does not and never will be part of that omniverse. Sure you can say there is one fan made omniverse that includes every comic ever but it will never officially exist regardless of what one company claims / implies.
If Marvel and DC says that their properties exist within the same omniverse then regardless of how stupid it may appear, regardless of the questions it may bring to mind, it is canon and no fans opinion is going to change that.
Originally posted by manjaromy point exactly, he too is making my argument for me. either each company has thier own thing going or all other companies exist in Marvel's omniverse...since they were the ones who mainstreamed, [B]defined
and popularized the concept......you pick the one that makes more sense to you. when i did my process of elimination thing it was to show why DC couldnt coexist with marvel to show why it doesnt meet the necessary criterion to be a Megaverse, for it is only one multiverse and how it couldnt be an alternate universe cuz Spectre and LT are two separate and unique individuals are equal in power and prestige..i dont think im being hard headed on this one... you cant just pluck stuff outta the air and say "oh well...the creator can have two go-to guys if he wants." to end a debate. the fact is he doesnt, and thats that....... I refuse to accept that Spectre is under LT's mandate...what sense would that make if they are equals? what would make him so special or favored? i see where Gs is coming from with the idea that we as readers cant form our own conclusions, but until either company says otherwise i dont see why i should believe that each company doesnt have thier own omniverse. and if mr vandal is who he says he is then maybe it would behoove him to throw his weight around at marvel and make sure they make it absolutely clear in future handbooks to clear up any misconceptions fans might have. [/B]
But thats just the point Manjaro, Marvel has stated their realities don't make up an omniverse by themselves, therefore you cannot under any circumstance argue that they do. That opinion is officially rejected and is just your opinion.
Marvel and DC's collection of realities are very separate clusters within the omniversal structure, however at times we are given demonstrations that they are within the same omniverse via crossovers.
You keep going on about these inconsistencies between character roles and such, but that is simply down to real world issues, you know why there's inconsistencies. Said inconsistences aren't going to be reconciled until Marvel and DC give us an explanation.
Until that point in time, we can have fun here speculating the answers but what we cannot do is disregard what they have presented to us as canon.
Marvel has said its realities aren't an omniverse unto themselves, it says it belongs in an omniverse alongside other comic book companies. Until it comes out with a statement declaring it to possess an omniverse separate from all other fictional ones then no pairing of comic book scan and comic book fan interpretation, no matter how many times it is presented is going to change that.
You said LT existed in all realities of the omniverse. That is NOT true as i have shown. Therefore your primary reason for being hesistant to accept canon is no longer releveant.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, Whole UniverseS are referred to as "Dimensions"
(that's what that scan is stating)So this, does Not in any way support your 616 Realtiy is a Multiverse idea.
(that's NEVER been mentioned anywhere, or even alluded to being a possibility)Dimensions are Universes, that's ture,
but pocket Dimensions are NOT.Asgard and Mephisto's realms are pocket dimensions.
Dimensions are stated to be universes.
The issue goes on to state that many Marvel universes are made of a number of dimensions.
Its as simple as that.
I will not be told by yourself what Marvel is saying when it is there clear as day for me and other forum readers to see ourselves.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok, this is typical, but I'll be nice and just post the facts.Both those Scans from "Dr Strange Sorcerer Supreme #21"
is describing the actual Multiverse.Here's the ENTIRE PAGE ... (of the First Scan ABOVE)
✅
Thank you for posting the full page. You've helped me a great deal.
So Dr Strange is exploring the nature of what he sums up as the multiverse. Notice that is singular, not plural. He isn't exploring the nature of the multiverses.
Originally posted by Mr Master
He then goes on to describe the LT's function in OTHER Clusters (MltiverseS)"[B]There are Universes
whose number of Spatial Dimensions range between 2.7 etc and 6.2 etc,
these all share a commonality of Concepts,
hence they are grouped into a Cluster, (a Multiverse)Man's Cluster is One of the responsibilities of the Living Tribunal"
..................................................................................................
"Universes ... with lower or higher Dimensions ... are Truly different"
"even there Life exists, in Forms totally inconceivable to mankind"
"There the Living Tribunal takes Other Shapes
to Administer to Other Clusters" (MultiverseS)
[/B]
After having been told that dimensions are universes. We are told during Dr Stranges exploration of THE multiverse that there are universes that themselves are made up of numerous dimensions.
Because the various dimensions of these universe share the same cosmic structure (i.e the abstracts are prevalent) then these dimensions are grouped together as one universe, despite debatably being a pseudo multiverses unto themselves.
Further proving the point that these clusters being referred to are universes, it is stated that mans cluster is one of LT's responsibilities. The next panel goes on to explore lower universes after having briefly touched on the subject of mans cluster/universe.
Its then stated that these lower dimensions are different to the higher ones and that LT takes a different shape to appear to these clusters.
Given that the subject matter in this section was regarding universes, a cluster is conclusively the reference used for one of these multi dimensional universe
Just to summarise, the exercise as a whole was the exploratiion of THE multiverse.
We are told that universes in the multiverse are composed of several dimensions themselves but due to a common cosmic hierarchy, they are grouped together as one cluster.
We're told mans cluster is one of LT's responsibilities, we're then taken on a tour of universes lower than mans one(showing you that mans cluster was a higher universe) and then we're told these lower dimensions are different and that to these clusters(therefore linking the reference "cluster" to a universe) LT appears in different forms.
It is there plain as day. No need to add words to Marvel on panel statements to tell us what Marvel is saying 👇
Dimensions are universes. Universes can be made of many dimensions. A common hierarchy sees these multi-dimensional universes grouped as a cluster, mans cluster along with many others is under LT's jurisdiction.
All of that as stated on panel, an exploration of the multiverse.
No pluralisation in sight.
Thank you and good day. 😱
So Mr Master having no official statement to counter the one i've presented appears rather conspicuously out of nowhere once he sees the rather capable debator that is Manjaro putting up a fight 😖hifty:
No statement in tow, he's just here to jump on Manjaros bandwagon.
Now that you;re back from exile would you like to present to us what offical statement you've found that shows a change of perspective for Marvel and DC?
No comic book scans, coupled with an essay of you telling us how the scan answers the question, even though a quick read of the scan by ourselves brings to mind your psychosis, just a direct unambiguous statement straight from Marvel. 😱
Kinda like this one:
Just to reiterate:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
At the end of the day, Marvel has made a statement, they have yet to contradict that statement or publish anything which discredits that statement.Marvel has said that its collection of realities exists within the omniverse alongside those of other comic book companies. Whilst we have no word from the likes of Dark Horse or TopCow, we do have multiple DC collobarative works which support this notion(crossovers). On top of that we have a DC continuity title that continues where the Marvel/DC crossover left off.
How exactly do scans of Exiles,Roma etc saying they can survey the entire omniverse equate to the omniverse being made solely of Marvels properties? It doesn't. ❌
Marvel publishing a comic book where there are omniversal consequences doesn't equate to the omniverse being made up of just Marvel realities.
As long as DC's properties aren't depicted in such works then Marvel is completely at liberty to say such things.
I have linked to articles from Handbook writers talking of that very point.
Scans with such omniversal references are explained away and don't disprove Marvels statement. I have linked to Marvel.com and Marvunapp where handwriters have talked about how DC is within the same omniverse however due to copyright Marvel is limited in how it can refer to DC's property, hence vague terms like LT's spectral hooded ally(The Spectre) or the verdant will powered energies of an emerald gladiator(for Kyle Rayner Green Lantern). Such copyright restrictions are why when the omniverse is talked of in a Marvel title, you will only ever see Marvel realities depicted. It is only in a carefully planned and legalised crossover that you will see both companies properties interacting with each other.
Handbook scans from 06 and 07 have been presented where brief explanations of the omniverse are given. Omission does not equate to a change in perspective for the company. The statement i provided was from the handbook on Alternate Dimensions. It was a publication specifically on the matter, therefore its explanations were inherently more in depth.
An explanation of a term from an Exiles or Living Tribunal bio where the focus is on the character/s and their backgrounds is obviously going to contain less information and be less extensive in its explanation. Once again, ommision does not equate to a change of perspective.
Marvel.com, marvunapp.com, the handbooks various crossovers and DC's JLA title all support that statement and directly illustrate or refer to the fact that the two comapnies properties exist within the same creation. A menagerie of scans from a Marvel comic where DC characters are not shown to be around, or where the entire omniverse is said to be affected do not disprove Marvels statement when there are various Marvel sources referring to the issue of copyright being the barrier between such interaction.
If you truly believe that the two are separate, then please justify that belief by presenting a statement from Marvel or DC directly on the issue (like i have) which states that the two companies properties are within two separate fictional omniverses and that all crossovers which were previously confirmed as canon are no longer so. Anything less than that is a waste of time. 😬
Thanks for your time
-GS
Originally posted by Magee
Just one question, how can a completely different comic company exist with in the same "omniverse" as Marvel? When ever Marvel has used the term omniverse surely its just referring to every thing that it publishes existing with in the same creation. It doesn't really matter what any one thinks DC does not and never will be part of that omniverse. Sure you can say there is one fan made omniverse that includes every comic ever but it will never officially exist regardless of what one company claims / implies.
1st) i believe that marvel always means every company, Mark Gruenwald created a fanzine before working for marvel or DC called OMNIVERSE in it he charted each companies history and things to do with continuity, thru this fanzine he was noticed and hired by marvel
2nd) we have a 2005 definition from marvel saying it shares the omniverse with other companies and even the real world, this definition was from a universe and dimension handbook, newer handbooks state all realities but have no in depth definition
3rd) we have crossovers that say they are extra dimensional neighbors, and we have bios that aknowledge them, on panel aknowledgement of eachother after the crossover( obviously within copywrite law)..references to hooded spectral ally etc
4th) we not only have numerous writers aknowledgeing they share an omniverse, but we have the writer form the marvel handbooks telling us so, to top it off the writer made a clarification on the site for this reason, and he has also said he will make sure the new offiicial handbook has the clarification
And i will bring my points from earlier
Not one scan in this whole thread states "marvel has its own omniverse"..not one single panel of repetitive scans-none, and showing references to omniverse in marvel comics does not make it theirs...things like"protectors of the omniverse" "threatened the omniverse" are not direct statements that make it marvels own
A 2005 definition of omniverse from an official marvel handbook of Alternate Universes states that marvel shares its omniverse with other companies
http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?...tsamuraids2.jpg
Every hanbook entry after is not as thorough, but states -all reality
http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=omni2mz6.jpg
So has marvel changed its stance since 2005? i am to believe that in 2005 marvel stated they share a omniverse with all other companies, and in 2006 till now they changed their stance...? it looks to me that they state ALL REALITY
Crossovers have been shown as proof more that once in this thread, and in the hanbooks those crossovers have been mentioned
A marvel site has updated their definition of the omniverse-
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe
And it states marvel shares an omniverse, the writer of the hanbook is the one who updated the site, he has seen this thread and posters who are members of both sites brang it to his attention-yet this person was insulted twice in this thread-shamefull really
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums...age=1&pp=20
Btw this guy just happen to be the guy who wrote the entry for impossible man and JASPERS
There is one Omniverse and all companies and even our universe is in it . like it or not thats the facts
Good afternoon(UK time 🙂 ) Emmie.
We've gone on a tangent long enough. I don't want to read through another convoluted essay in defence of your misinterpretation. 🙄
Can you please just cut to the chase and show us where Marvel has stated that their collection realities makes up an omniverse all by their lonesome. 😖hifty:
With that you could counter their previous statement which said the contrary. ✅
Without that, you're wasting your time and clogging up my lovely thread. 🙁 🙂
Originally posted by starlock
1st) i believe that marvel always means every company, Mark Gruenwald created a fanzine before working for marvel or DC called OMNIVERSE in it he charted each companies history and things to do with continuity, thru this fanzine he was noticed and hired by marvel
2nd) we have a 2005 definition from marvel saying it shares the omniverse with other companies and even the real world, this definition was from a universe and dimension handbook, newer handbooks state all realities but have no in depth definition
3rd) we have crossovers that say they are extra dimensional neighbors, and we have bios that aknowledge them, on panel aknowledgement of eachother after the crossover( obviously within copywrite law)..references to hooded spectral ally etc
4th) we not only have numerous writers aknowledgeing they share an omniverse, but we have the writer form the marvel handbooks telling us so, to top it off the writer made a clarification on the site for this reason, and he has also said he will make sure the new offiicial handbook has the clarification
And i will bring my points from earlier
Not one scan in this whole thread states "marvel has its own omniverse"..not one single panel of repetitive scans-none, and showing references to omniverse in marvel comics does not make it theirs...things like"protectors of the omniverse" "threatened the omniverse" are not direct statements that make it marvels own
A 2005 definition of omniverse from an official marvel handbook of Alternate Universes states that marvel shares its omniverse with other companies
Every hanbook entry after is not as thorough, but states -all reality
So has marvel changed its stance since 2005? i am to believe that in 2005 marvel stated they share a omniverse with all other companies, and in 2006 till now they changed their stance...? it looks to me that they state ALL REALITY
Crossovers have been shown as proof more that once in this thread, and in the hanbooks those crossovers have been mentioned
A marvel site has updated their definition of the omniverse-
And it states marvel shares an omniverse, the writer of the hanbook is the one who updated the site, he has seen this thread and posters who are members of both sites brang it to his attention-yet this person was insulted twice in this thread-shamefull really
Btw this guy just happen to be the guy who wrote the entry for impossible man and JASPERS
There is one Omniverse and all companies and even our universe is in it . like it or not thats the facts
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=474708&pagenumber=19
