Originally posted by darthgoober
[B]"Supes moving *insert large object* while flying is a major strength feat"http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=advsupes43617yl7.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=advsupes43618cr4.jpg
First panel of the second scan...
"And as I discovered some time ago, when I lift an object while I'm flying, there's something other than strength at work."Myth busted.
[/B]
ermm
Originally posted by Juntai
I'll give you that Byrne deal, as often Supermans powers are attributed to telekinetic powers [farther proven by Connor, who often did his lifting primarily with telekinesis, but the lines blurred and dileneated once he gained full Kryptonian powerset on which he was using.], however often enough, his lifting even while flying, is often attributed to strength alone as well. Most writers don't try to enter the territory of the Superman beyond his basic powerset, while others do. When Byrne wrote that, he was recreating Superman's origin and powerset, both of which should be taken with a grain of salt for better or worse, since the Man of Steel origin is no longer correct. Besides, I don't think there's anything he can't lift on the ground, that he can lift in the air. This is a guy who with a clenched hand can keep a black hole from expanding, or turn the endless wheels of maggedon, a younger Superman lifted the entirety of Metropolis from the ocean floor [lots of water displacement- think about it].Bragging isn't concrete evidence. And nameless characters will pretty much always be less than named characters. Daxamites however are the cousins to the Kryptonian race, and are generally considered in the same power-range. To think one is as powerful of Superman though is rediculous. Not only is Superman special to his species, he's special to ALL of them. Despite what any haters want to believe, he is one of the most powerful characters in comics, cosmic, gods, or otherwise. Now I won't claim he's unbeatable, or doesn't struggle, but that's his story, that's how he's written. In the end, he'll reach a different level the others can't attain.
And the other one? Are you claiming Superman couldn't destroy a planet/planetoid, or just that kid getting the Zod reference wrong by not saying Superman and Zod punching eachother, caused the fabric of an alternate dimension to be torn asunder because their wills shaped it?
As is par for the course, Juntai knows exactly what he's talking about. Cosigned on pretty much all counts.
Originally posted by Juntai
I'll give you that Byrne deal, as often Supermans powers are attributed to telekinetic powers [farther proven by Connor, who often did his lifting primarily with telekinesis, but the lines blurred and dileneated once he gained full Kryptonian powerset on which he was using.], however often enough, his lifting even while flying, is often attributed to strength alone as well. Most writers don't try to enter the territory of the Superman beyond his basic powerset, while others do. When Byrne wrote that, he was recreating Superman's origin and powerset, both of which should be taken with a grain of salt for better or worse, since the Man of Steel origin is no longer correct. Besides, I don't think there's anything he can't lift on the ground, that he can lift in the air. This is a guy who with a clenched hand can keep a black hole from expanding, or turn the endless wheels of maggedon, a younger Superman lifted the entirety of Metropolis from the ocean floor [lots of water displacement- think about it].
Originally posted by Juntai
Bragging isn't concrete evidence. And nameless characters will pretty much always be less than named characters. Daxamites however are the cousins to the Kryptonian race, and are generally considered in the same power-range. To think one is as powerful of Superman though is rediculous. Not only is Superman special to his species, he's special to ALL of them. Despite what any haters want to believe, he is one of the most powerful characters in comics, cosmic, gods, or otherwise. Now I won't claim he's unbeatable, or doesn't struggle, but that's his story, that's how he's written. In the end, he'll reach a different level the others can't attain.
Originally posted by Juntai
And the other one? Are you claiming Superman couldn't destroy a planet/planetoid, or just that kid getting the Zod reference wrong by not saying Superman and Zod punching eachother, caused the fabric of an alternate dimension to be torn asunder because their wills shaped it?
Originally posted by Soljer
Powergirl talking about her own powerlevel = essentially irrelevant.Both Superman (who is much more knowledgeable on the topic of Kryptonian power) and Narration (who is omniscient on the topic of Kryptonian power) have described Daxamites as nothing but equals or superiors to Kryptonians.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Nameless Daxamite= Nameless Kryptonian is one thing.Nameless Daxamite= Superman is another thing entirely.
I don't have a problem with people comparing Daxamite's to Kryptonians, I have a problem with comparing them to Superman just as I'd have a problem with someone comparing a random human to Captain America.
Myth: "Surfer got an upgrade in Annihilation."
Surfer refused and was simply restored. After Galactus mentions it and Surfer refuses, both Galactus and Narration say he was RESTORED...as in NOT UPGRADED. He also hasn't done anything particularly more impressive than in the past AND had one of his worst low showings ever afterwards.
"NO...give me the WILL and let my REMORSE define me."
Myth Busted
Originally posted by AvlonAll he says no to is Galactus taking away remorse... as evident by him interrupting Galactus when he talks about remorse. 😕
[b]Myth: "Surfer got an upgrade in Annihilation."Surfer refused and was simply restored. After Galactus mentions it and Surfer refuses, both Galactus and Narration say he was RESTORED...as in NOT UPGRADED. He also hasn't done anything particularly more impressive than in the past AND had one of his worst low showings ever afterwards.
"NO...give me the WILL and let my REMORSE define me."
Myth Busted [/B]
He also gives him the will to do what must be done, which would hint to him getting an upgrade... although it is an upgrade anyway, since he restored him from all the way back from his entrapment on Earth I believe. So he is more than he's been minus his first couple appearances.
I'm still on the fence on this one, but that doesn't disprove the myth. And his worst feat ever had to do with the writer, not power... I mean, Storm tearing apart Stardust, and whats his face hurting Galactus?
Well, I think we can agree with Avlon that "Surfer got an upgrade" is incorrect to state, or at least premature. Saying that he may have gotten one isn't good enough, especially without evidence from the supposed upgrade itself, as well as his point that his feats are no greater since the incident. So even if he did, we can't prove anything beyond an incredibly murky guess, and it's therefore not a valid statement to make.
Thanks though Av. That always kinda bugged me too, but I never thought to do a mythbuster on it.
Originally posted by Red Hulk
but that doesn't disprove the myth.
Considering you said it's a myth...it's already on the side of make believe.
Narration and Galactus himself simply said..."restored" and Surfer only spoke of will and remorse.
There was no upgrade.
It's pretty clear. Marvel narration is rarely shy when discussing some kind of upgrade.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Well, I think we can agree with Avlon that "Surfer got an upgrade" is incorrect to state, or at least premature. Saying that he may have gotten one isn't good enough, especially without evidence from the supposed upgrade itself, as well as his point that his feats are no greater since the incident. So even if he did, we can't prove anything beyond an incredibly murky guess, and it's therefore not a valid statement to make.Thanks though Av. That always kinda bugged me too, but I never thought to do a mythbuster on it.
Thanks Digi. IMO it just makes for better debating with the fallacy cleared.
This is an easy one. Myth Busted That a top tier or trans tier can beat DS with their own power and no outside help in a str8 up head to head. It's Impossible.
In these scans, DS is clearly Shown As Superman's Superior.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/action638-2122horus.jpg
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential08_19.jpg
Here Superman is bleeding and DS is only getting started.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p10.jpg
Owns Orion with a wave of a hand and cracks the firestorm matrix with ease.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/RacerX-Firestorm35-p21.jpg
Once again embarrassing Superman
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/ActionComics780pg04.jpg
Now. The only times I've seen Superman actually do well against DS are these.
http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12501522wt5.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=93150753qt7.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=83898672ob2.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=39424191cc3.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=64633162un6.jpg
What do they have in common? DS has to be hit by His own Killing blow in order just to be weaknend enough for Superman to Actually get a win.
Thus, DS cannot be defeated by a Top Tier or Trans Tier without Some form of Source power first attacking him. DS also gets weaker after expending his killing blow.
the thing about supes coment about "more than strength at work" he is actually referring to two instances after Byrne's revamp...one when he came across the lab of the mad scientist who created Metallo, and he carved out the land around the lab and placed the whole thing lab included in Earth's orbit so he can study it at his leisure and another time when Luthor staged a fake terrorist attack on his own yacht..which was a refurbished throwback ocean liner ala titanic...and supes lifted it out of the ocean and specifically commented that objects he lifts while in mid air requires little to no effort at all...of course i curse myself that i dont actually have the scans but it is in MOS vol 1. of course the simple fact that the character was being re introduced the notion or concept of tactile telekinesis wasnt around in '86..but it is obvious thats what it was/is...his may not be as profound as Conner's is but that definatley explains why he can lift such large objects that dont collpase under thier own weight
Originally posted by fangirl101h/p dpmmsday owned ds easily
This is an easy one. Myth Busted That a top tier or trans tier can beat DS with their own power and no outside help in a str8 up head to head. It's Impossible.In these scans, DS is clearly Shown As Superman's Superior.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/action638-2122horus.jpghttp://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential08_19.jpg
Here Superman is bleeding and DS is only getting started.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p10.jpgOwns Orion with a wave of a hand and cracks the firestorm matrix with ease.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/RacerX-Firestorm35-p21.jpgOnce again embarrassing Superman
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/ActionComics780pg04.jpgNow. The only times I've seen Superman actually do well against DS are these.
http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12501522wt5.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=93150753qt7.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=83898672ob2.jpghttp://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=39424191cc3.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=64633162un6.jpgWhat do they have in common? DS has to be hit by His own Killing blow in order just to be weaknend enough for Superman to Actually get a win.
Thus, DS cannot be defeated by a Top Tier or Trans Tier without Some form of Source power first attacking him. DS also gets weaker after expending his killing blow.
Originally posted by fangirl101
This is an easy one. Myth Busted That a top tier or trans tier can beat DS with their own power and no outside help in a str8 up head to head. It's Impossible.In these scans, DS is clearly Shown As Superman's Superior.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/action638-2122horus.jpghttp://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanconfidential08_19.jpg
Here Superman is bleeding and DS is only getting started.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii315/darkseidres2/Countdown3p10.jpgOwns Orion with a wave of a hand and cracks the firestorm matrix with ease.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/RacerX-Firestorm35-p21.jpgOnce again embarrassing Superman
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/ActionComics780pg04.jpgNow. The only times I've seen Superman actually do well against DS are these.
http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12501522wt5.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=93150753qt7.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=83898672ob2.jpghttp://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=39424191cc3.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=64633162un6.jpgWhat do they have in common? DS has to be hit by His own Killing blow in order just to be weaknend enough for Superman to Actually get a win.
Thus, DS cannot be defeated by a Top Tier or Trans Tier without Some form of Source power first attacking him. DS also gets weaker after expending his killing blow.
All these prove is that DS can hit hard. LOL @ the one sided scans without the full story. Most of us know the full story to these. You might as well give up.
DS and Supes are peers.
Originally posted by fangirl101
No. He didn't. He was pwned first. And he isn't a top tier. He was above the top tier.
You did include Trans, which is where H/P is listed.
Anyway, before this gets out of hand and I end up issuing warnings, I'm just going to nicely ask that this DS thing be dropped. There's a difference between clearing up a falsehood that has been perpetuated on KMC, and using this thread as a forum to state an opinion about a character, one which has evidence on both sides of the argument. Your post was the latter. True or not, it has no place in this thread.
Originally posted by DigiMark007i wasnt trying to start shit but as you stated trans lvl was mentioned.
You did include Trans, which is where H/P is listed.Anyway, before this gets out of hand and I end up issuing warnings, I'm just going to nicely ask that this DS thing be dropped. There's a difference between clearing up a falsehood that has been perpetuated on KMC, and using this thread as a forum to state an opinion about a character, one which has evidence on both sides of the argument. Your post was the latter. True or not, it has no place in this thread.
Originally posted by Philosophía
By now, it must be obvious that Superman and pre Seven Soldiers/Final Crisis Darkseid are peers.That doesn't taken anything from Darkseid, though. Superman just is that powerfull.
Except Orion has Universal level feats to his credit.
But DS alwyas Owns Orion. I'm confused.
Orion and Supers are Peers.
DS and Supers are peers.
But DS always owns Orion? 😕
