So lets go back on track.
I stand that two feats took place
Amputation on an entire future
Manifestation and Atomic control of wounded orphan (thanks to the amputation)
And this was dealing with the 616 universe and timeline.
@GS - I believe you agree to my claims.
@Mr. M: I believe you only acknowledge an amputation of a the future of a reality. And manifestation of the amputated future.
And this is dealing entirely with reality 15104.
Am I on track?
Can you stop reposting, what we've all seen before and actually acknowledge what has been presented.
My posts were in response to yours, they countered what you had posted conclusively.
You in turn need to provide something which proves my posts wrong, you don't just repost what i've already countered.
Is it really that hard to admit you're wrong? 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats all true. But where you went wrong was in believing these new timelines were totally separate universes, when in fact they they are just branches off of the main 616 timeline.
Even "Kang's Third Law of Time" (although Reed dismissed it as a lie)
states,
that a "New Universe is Created"
You personally posted the scan.
Originally posted by Mr Master
In Marvel Comics, if you travel to the Past or Future, of the 616 Universe,
you instantaneously create ANOTHER Timeline,
to supplement a point in Time that has already passed by.It's as simple as that.
That's WHY "Here Comes Tomorrow" (150 Years in the Future)
was designated Reality 15104 from the very BEGINNING!!!!!
Yet no time traveling took place. 150 years naturally progressed, which is why HCT is set originally in reality 616.
Seems to me Marvel has problems telling the difference from timelines and universes and multiverses and such. It would be a little less confusing if more of the writers read the handbooks and used their definitions more properly. As it stands, both of you have different views from looking at the very same words, because their terminology and it's uses is so convoluted. And that's not applying merely to the Pheonix ordeal, but a few of your debates. Looking from an outside perspective I can often see what both of you are saying.
If you fellas want to make an open truce right now to respectful debating,
I'm all for it, I enjoy discussions more in a peaceful environment.
See I actually enjoyed the way you posted this id,
perhaps this is the beginning of a positive peer to peer relationship. 🙂
Originally posted by id369
[B]So lets go back on track.I stand that two feats took place
Amputation on an entire future
Manifestation and Atomic control of wounded orphan (thanks to the amputation)And this was dealing with the 616 universe and timeline.
@Mr. M: I believe you only acknowledge an amputation of a the future of a reality. And manifestation of the amputated future.
And this is dealing entirely with reality 15104.
Am I on track?
Now, onto the question:
From my perspective, based on what I read On Panel and Bios:
Reality 15104 is a possible Future of 616. (No Future is definite in Marvel)
Scott leaves the X-Men and Emma and dies and "Here Comes Tomorrow" is created.
Jean amputated the Future of Reality 15104 in order to disinfect said Future,
from Sublime,
the Future was never discarded,
we know this because Jean has it in her hands when she first enters the WHR
Now this act damaged the Future she amputated,
Jean then Repaired This amputated Future withIN the WHR atomically.
Then Reality 15104 (yes, a Universe) itself manifested in her hands,
but, though it was a functioning Universe, it was wounded, Why?
Because it's Future was still the same (without Sublime though)
that Future being the finality of "Here Comes Tomorrow"
(like Future self of Wolvy and others who died)
So, in order to "Heal" (change) the outcome of Reality 15104,
Jean (withIN the WHR) changed Scott's mind about the X-Men and Emma on 616,
thus, This possible Future (Reality 151040 is altered.
I will submit, I have no idea whether or not 15104 is still in existence,
with happy alternate X-Men running around.
Or, 15104 was completely nullified by the alteration.
There's simply no indication, that I know of, either way.
but one of the Two, did occur.
This is IMO. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree.Even "Kang's Third Law of Time" (although Reed dismissed it as a lie)
states,
that a "New Universe is Created"You personally posted the scan.
Nooooo. I've already talked to you about reading scans properly.
As illustrated by the diagram, a new universe is created, but it is only a branch off from the main timeline. It is not a main timeline by itself.
Hence why i used the branch on a tree analogy.
Originally posted by id369
Yet no time traveling took place. 150 years naturally progressed,
which is why HCT is set originally in reality 616.
Who the heck is Morrison to jump the current/Present 616 Reality 150 years forward?
Marvel Comics (Presently speaking) adheres to "Real World" Time.
As in, Marvel is right now in the year 2008 currently.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nooooo. I've already talked to you about reading scans properly.
Who are you to tell anyone how to read scans properly?
Don't ask for respect, when you pull this pompous garbage.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As illustrated by the diagram, a new universe is created,
but it is only a branch off from the main timeline.
It is not a main timeline by itself.
Clearly, there are separate Timelines being indicated.
And the scan clearly states,
that each Timeline is a New Universe, with a separate History.
Originally posted by Mr Master
If you fellas want to make an open truce right now to respectful debating,
I'm all for it, I enjoy discussions more in a peaceful evironment.See I actually enjoyed the way you posted this id,
perhaps this is the beginning of a positive peer to peer relationship. 🙂First I hope yall don't think I'm placing Phoenix below Universal status, because I'm not.
Pheonix has always been an absolute Universal power,
this I know and agree with.Now, onto the question:
From my perspective, based on what I read On Panel and Bios:
Reality 15104 is a possible Future of 616. (No Future is definite in Marvel)
Scott leaves the X-Men and Emma and dies and "Here Comes Tomorrow" is created.
Jean amputated the Future of Reality 15104 in order to disinfect said Future,
from Sublime,
the Future was never discarded,
we this because Jean has it in her hands when she first enters the WHR
Now this act damaged the Future she amputated,
Jean then Repaired This amputated Future withIN the WHR atomically.Then Reality 15104 (yes, a Universe) itself manifested in her hands,
but, though it was a functioning Universe, it was wounded, Why?
Because it's Future was still the same (without Sublime though)
that Future being the finality of "Here Comes Tomorrow"
(like Future self of Wolvy and others who died)
So, in order to "Heal" (change) the outcome of Reality 15104,
Jean (withIN the WHR) changed Scott's mind about the X-Men and Emma on 616,
thus, This possible Future (Reality 151040 is altered.I will submit, I have no idea whether or not 15104 is still in existence,
with happy alternate X-Men running around.Or, 15104 was completely nullified by the alteration.
There's simply no indication, that I know of, either way.
but one of the Two, did occur.This is IMO. 🙂
Jean doesn't have it in her hands as she walks into the White Hot Room. I've already shown this, the amputated future is carried away by a bird like claw. So in that respect your opinion is conclusively wrong.
(Notice her turning back to look at the crystal whilst the green globe is carried away in the opposite direction)
She enters the White Hot Room empty handed.
You dont amputate something you need, plus on top of that she said the future was too badly infested anyway, thats why she cut it off from 616.
The reality she manifested within the White Hot Room was 616. Why would she have the amputated future carried away from her, only for her to manifest it within her hand after she steps into the White Hot Room? 😕
Jeans friends were within it, events from 616 were contained within it and it is the reality she applied her power to to see changes to 616. It was 616.
It couldn't have been the amputated future. The HCT future was 150 years in the future, so how and WHY is Jean going to grow the present(which was 150 years in the past) on the end of an amputated future? 😕
Originally posted by Mr Master
Get this gibberish out of here duke.Who are you to tell anyone how to read scans properly?
Don't ask for respect, when you pull this pompous garbage.
Not accoring to the diagram, but see it as you wish.
Clearly, there are separate Timelines being indicated.
And the scan clearly states,
that each Timeline is a New Universe, with a separate History.
You're unbelievable Mr Master.
Does this really mean that much to you that you would outright lie?
The main timeline is the thick line in the middle. Events are set in stone, so when an event takes place that is not supposed to, a new reality diverges from the main timeline.
It is not a separate tree as clearly illustrated, it is just a branch off of the tree.
The diagram doesn't show the alternate timelines as a series of SEPARATE parallel lines, they are branches off of the main timeline.
You are WRONG 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean doesn't have it in her hands as she walks into the White Hot Room. I've already shown this, the amputated future is carried away by a bird like claw. So in that respect your opinion is conclusively wrong.
There we go:
Like I said, Jean damaged said Future:
Like I said, Jean repaired said Future atomically:
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training,
NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."
i do see you point mm, but in this case this is a FUTURE timeline being discussed, as opposed to a PAST timeline. when exactly does the divergence occur?
i disagree with the terminology of a 'new universe' though, regarless of who coined the name and agree with jun. to me a 'true', 'new universe' requires a big bang and needs to have progressed from the beginning. the 'big bang' of these divergent realities was the 616 'big bang'. hence gs's claim that they are not 'new universes' in the typical sense.
and to the point of who was morrison to push time forward naturally that far -- in THIS case morrison TRULY is omnipotent. if he declares that 150 years pass naturally, then . . . 😬 (not saying that IS what happened, but rather that as the writer he CAN declare that to be the case.)
imo, of course. 🙂
Why would she have the amputated future carried away from her, only for her to manifest it within her hand after she steps into the White Hot Room? 😕
The HCT future was 150 years in the future, so how and WHY is Jean going to grow a future for the present(which was 150 years in the past) on the end of an amputated future that takes place 150 years after the present?😕
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It is not a separate tree as clearly illustrated, it is just a branch off of the tree.The diagram doesn't show the alternate timelines as a series of SEPARATE parallel lines, they are branches off of the main timeline.
i agree. the use of the term 'new universe' is a poor choice by whatever writer elected to use it.
Originally posted by leonidas
i do see you point mm, but in this case this is a FUTURE timeline being discussed, as opposed to a PAST timeline. when exactly does the divergence occur?i disagree with the terminology of a 'new universe' though, regarless of who coined the name and agree with jun. to me a 'true', 'new universe' requires a big bang and needs to have progressed from the beginning. the 'big bang' of these divergent realities was the 616 'big bang'. hence gs's claim that they are not 'new universes' in the typical sense.
and to the point of who was morrison to push time forward naturally that far -- in THIS case morrison TRULY is omnipotent. if he declares that 150 years pass naturally, then . . . 😬 (not saying that IS what happened, but rather that as the writer he CAN declare that to be the case.)
imo, of course. 🙂
Precisely.
They're new in the sense that their events are different from the main timeline after the point of divergence, however they are not separate universes that have had separate Big Bangs.
They are just divergent realities which have branched off from the main timeline because events have not taken place as they were destined to.
Originally posted by Juntai
So really, wouldn't Marvel's Prime Multiverse, actually be just divergent timelines of the single 616 universe, as they illustrated?
✅
The multiverse is mostly made up of 616 and all of the "What If" alternate realities.
There are some exceptions, but the majority of realities we've been shown so far are just branch offs from 616.
I mostly just read & learn when you and MrMaster do this, unlike a lot of the people who just skip over your posts when you guys are doing your thing, I just try to understand.
It's pretty evident that I'm mostly a DC reader, but I do collect some Marvel titles, and the cosmic stuff interests me a lot as a reader both on paper and on the forum.
