WC Phoenix runs a mini DC gauntlet!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You're unbelievable Mr Master.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Does this really mean that much to you that you would outright lie?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The main timeline is the thick line in the middle. Events are set in stone, so when an event takes place that is not supposed to, a new reality diverges from the main timeline.
It is not a separate tree as clearly illustrated, it is just a branch off of the tree.
The diagram doesn't show the alternate timelines as a series of SEPARATE parallel lines, they are branches off of the main timeline.

So much for your spin.

Like I said, a NEW Universe is born, with a SEPARATE HISTORY!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You are WRONG

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanx.

dontgetit

[img=http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2822/newyd7.th.jpg]

So much for your spin.

Like I said, a NEW Universe is born, with a SEPARATE HISTORY!!!

nah, that's You Pino, it will always be You.

New in that the history is different from the main timeline AFTER the point of divergence.

However they are not totally separate universes. They are just branches off of the main timeline.

In Here Comes Tomorrow, Jean cut off the divergent future (reality 15104/Here Comes Tomorrow) just before the point of divergence(Cyclops reaction to Emma) and then she altered 616's events to ensure that the amputated future never came into existence.

And the bio confirms this:

616 Cyclops stays with Emma. “In the modern era of Earth 616, Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the Xavier Institute, unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”

The amputated future was not wanted or used.

You cannot grow the continuation of the present, on the end of a future that takes place 150 years later than the present. 🤨

Come on Mr Master, you're not stupid, 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
i do see you point mm, but in this case this is a FUTURE timeline being discussed, as opposed to a PAST timeline.
when exactly does the divergence occur?

Originally posted by leonidas
i disagree with the terminology of a 'new universe' though, regarless of who coined the name and agree with jun. to me a 'true', 'new universe' requires a big bang and needs to have progressed from the beginning. the 'big bang' of these divergent realities was the 616 'big bang'. hence gs's claim that they are not 'new universes' in the typical sense.

Cool, that's you prerogative.

Originally posted by leonidas
and to the point of who was morrison to push time forward naturally that far -- in THIS case morrison TRULY is omnipotent.
if he declares that 150 years pass naturally, then . . .
(not saying that IS what happened,
but rather that as the writer he CAN declare that to be the case.)

And, Morrison can't over-ride every other Marvel Title either.

The current Marvel Universe Timeline
goes hand in hand with the "Real World's" Timeline.

If it's 2008 in the real World, it's 2008 in the current/Present Marvel Comics Universe.

Originally posted by Juntai
I mostly just read & learn when you and MrMaster do this, unlike a lot of the people who just skip over your posts when you guys are doing your thing, I just try to understand.

It's pretty evident that I'm mostly a DC reader, but I do collect some Marvel titles, and the cosmic stuff interests me a lot as a reader both on paper and on the forum.

If you dont have the material thats being discussed, I can provide it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The instant the story was jumped 150 Years into the Future.

So you agree with gs, but you disagree with the Writers or Marvel.

Cool, that's you prerogative.

He disagrees with the terminology used but he's not disagreeing with what the writer is saying, just the words he used to express what he's saying.

The writer said time travel results in new universes. The artistic depiction that went along with this description shows that these are new in that they diverge from the main timeline and then from that divergence point go on to have new or different events within them.

They are not new in the sense that a Big Bang is caused and a totally separate, totally independent new universe is created.

Just a branch off from the main reality.

THAT is clearly illustrated 😬

Originally posted by id369
If you dont have the material thats being discussed, I can provide it.

I can too Jun, i think i've still got your msn, just let me know when youre next online and i'll send you anything you need.

The fact that your theory has gaping holes in it and brings up questions that you can't answer should tell you its incorrect Mr Master. 😬

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Why would she have the amputated future carried away from her, only for her to manifest it within her hand after she steps into the White Hot Room? 😕

The HCT future was 150 years in the future, so how and WHY is Jean going to grow a future for the present(which was 150 years in the past) on the end of an amputated future that takes place 150 years after the present?😕

How would Jean hear past 616 events, from an amputated future timeline thats isolated from the timestream? 😕

Why would Jean gaze into an amputated future and say "Live Scott, Live", when Cyclops is long dead within that reality? 😕

How would Jeans application of power to an amputated future isolated from the timestream, result in a change to the 616 present? 😕 [/B]

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
New in that the history is different from the main timeline AFTER the point of divergence.

However they are not totally separate universes.
They are just branches off of the main timeline.

According to Kang's Third Law of Time, a NEW Universe is created:

Spin it all you want, I'll keep at reminding the onlookers.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In Here Comes Tomorrow,
Jean cut off the divergent future (reality 15104/Here Comes Tomorrow) just before the point of divergence(Cyclops reaction to Emma)
and then she altered 616's events to ensure that the amputated future never came into existence.

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104"

"In ONE Future" (there are many Possible Futures)

Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104 ...

NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And the bio confirms this

In fact, the Bio only confirms I'm right.

Reality 15104 began the instant the Future appeared on panel:

"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ...

First appearance, New X-Men #150"

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The amputated future was not wanted or used.

And yet, Jean went ahead and Repaired it for fun then ey?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You cannot grow the continuation of the present,
on the end of a future that takes place 150 years later than the present.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Come on Mr Master, you're not stupid,

What he said in that part is in accordance with the scan that you guys have been refering to. It's not ACTUALLY a new Universe in the traditional sense - wholly seperate from the original such as comparing DC to Marvel as seperate entities with original histories -- but rather just a new timeline stemming from the same source- 616 the prime universe. They even point out that's it's a stemmed timeline, and then dub it a Universe in the same sentence so as not to be confused when they use the term.

/------------Earth###
616 origin--------------------x=now--------------------
\------new 'universe'/timeline/Earth###.

This tells us the entire Multiverse, is actually just a single universe, with divergent timelines. It all collapses back to the same point.

Seems very akin to what DC called Hypertime.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]He disagrees with the terminology used but he's not disagreeing with what the writer is saying, just the words he used to express what he's saying.

The writer said time travel results in new universes. The artistic depiction that went along with this description shows that these are new in that they diverge from the main timeline and then from that divergence point go on to have new or different events within them.

They are not new in the sense that a Big Bang is caused and a totally separate, totally independent new universe is created.

Just a branch off from the main reality.

THAT is clearly illustrated

I mean, it's there,
a NEW Universe/SEPARATE History is Created when traveling to other points in Time:

Come on already ... jeesh.

hmm for some reason it wont put my spaces in there to make that diagram look right lol

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The fact that your theory has gaping holes in it and brings up questions that you can't answer should tell you its incorrect Mr Master.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's still a ANOTHER Universe, with a SEPARATE History.
Or, are you going to truly spin this fact in our faces?

I mean, it's there,
a NEW Universe/SEPARATE History is Created when traveling to other points in Time:

Come on already ... jeesh.

I can't speak for everything in the thread, but this part I do get, because it's a concept I'm familiar with.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's Your completely unsupported opinion.

According to Kang's Third Law of Time, a NEW Universe is created:

Spin it all you want, I'll keep at reminding the onlookers.

Actually Jean amputated the Future of Reality 15104:

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future [B]of Reality - 15104"

"In ONE Future" (there are many Possible Futures)

Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104 ...

NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.

The bio doesn't confirm anything you're claiming.

In fact, the Bio only confirms I'm right.

Reality 15104 began the instant the Future appeared on panel:

"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ...

First appearance, New X-Men #150"

And yet, Jean went ahead and Repaired it for fun then ey?

Oh I see,
you're under the impression that Jean affected the 616 Universe's Future in it's entirety,
when Jean only affected ONE Possible Future out of COUNTLESS Possible Futures.

Come on Galactic Storm, you're not stupid. [/B]

Whatever you want to call these divergent timelines, that issue of Fantastic Four clearly shows that these so called new universes are just branches off the main 616 trunk. 😬

Just wording Mr Master. Are you now saying that Here Comes Tomorrow that featured Jean of 616 and that resulted in changes to 616 was NOT a future of 616? 😕

The bio confirms that the amputated future was NOT wanted. It confirms that Jean by applying her power to the reality in her hand, changed Scotts mind:

“In the modern era of Earth 616, Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the Xavier Institute, unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”

So if Jean prevented Here Comes Tomorrow from ever coming to fruition, can you tell me how exactly she repaired it as per your interpretation?

If she wanted that future, then why did she amputate it from 616 in the first place?

Now try answering these questions via your interpretation:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Why would she have the amputated future carried away from her, only for her to manifest it within her hand after she steps into the White Hot Room? 😕

The HCT future was 150 years in the future, so how and WHY is Jean going to grow a future for the present(which was 150 years in the past) on the end of an amputated future that takes place 150 years after the present?

How would Jean hear past 616 events, from an amputated future timeline thats isolated from the timestream? 😕

Why would Jean gaze into an amputated future and say "Live Scott, Live", when Cyclops is long dead within that reality?

How would Jeans application of power to an amputated future isolated from the timestream, result in a change to the 616 present? 😕 [/B]

Originally posted by Juntai
Right, you are correct that it has a different history- it's different from the time of the divergence forward, from someone farther down the line, much of the history is different, but prior to the divergence, it comes from the exact same history.

✅ Thank you!!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Gibberish, and all those questions were answered earlier in this thread,
if you were not satisfied with said answers, that's your problem.

They weren't Mr Master. You just reposted your argument. I assure you that did NOT answer my questions.

If you're so sure that you have answered all of these questions. Then why don't you answer them again, or at least highlight to us where exactly in the thread they were answered? 😖hifty:

So if Jean prevented Here Comes Tomorrow from ever coming to fruition, can you tell me how exactly she repaired it as per your interpretation?

If she wanted that future, then why did she amputate it from 616 in the first place?

Why would she have the amputated future carried away from her, only for her to manifest it within her hand after she steps into the White Hot Room? 😕

The HCT future was 150 years in the future, so how and WHY is Jean going to grow a future for the present(which was 150 years in the past) on the end of an amputated future that takes place 150 years after the present?😕

How would Jean hear past 616 events, from an amputated future timeline thats isolated from the timestream? 😕

Why would Jean gaze into an amputated future and say "Live Scott, Live", when Cyclops is long dead within that reality? 😕

How would Jeans application of power to an amputated future isolated from the timestream, result in a change to the 616 present? 😕

Originally posted by Juntai
[B]What he said in that part is in accordance with the scan that you guys have been refering to. It's not ACTUALLY a new Universe in the traditional sense - wholly seperate from the original such as comparing DC to Marvel as seperate entities with original histories -- but rather just a new timeline stemming from the same source- 616 the prime universe. They even point out that's it's a stemmed timeline, and then dub it a Universe in the same sentence so as not to be confused when they use the term.

/------------Earth###
616 origin--------------------x=now--------------------
\------new 'universe'/timeline/Earth###.

These Timelines are nothing more than a second of existence in Eternity's essence.

Originally posted by Juntai
This tells us the entire Multiverse, is actually just a single universe,
with divergent timelines.

In fact,
the Multiverse is made up of both Alternate UniverseS and Divergent Timelines:

Here's the thing though, that even with the divergent timeline, the 616 timeline would have still flowed down the same path it currently does since it's timeline is an unrelenting straight line. So the effects of her tampering as I understand from what I've read here[without having read all the material here.] is still limited to only truly affecting the divergent timeline.

It seems that each one has its own idea of how fictional timeline works, retrospectively to alternate timelines.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2711/cable3wv9.jpg

Anyhow here is how I concluded the events in HCT.
It starts with the 616 timeline, followings the Planet X arc and the death of Jean. Scott’s decision not to reopen the institute and stay with Emma lead to 150 natural years of progression. This is where the Arc “Here Comes Tomorrow” takes place, in the year 2154. Year 2154 occupies the Current Time Slot, in the 616 timeline. Skimming through, we are lead to the Phoenix first action. The amputation of the entire future, in order to disinfect Sublime essence apparently. However this does not Sublime actions, so now Phoenix manifests the “Wounded ~ Orphan ~ Universe” that was plucked by its parents the Megasystems. Its through the Universe, that Jean intervenes with the past and manipulates Scoot actions. This servers diverge 150 years of history that ultimately lead to Here Comes Tomorrow. Now HCT and its Timeline become a parallel reality, 15104.

Two separate realties, with its own timelines are formed.
V1 (616) - Scott stays with Emma and reopens the institute.

V2 (15104) - Scott leaves, one action after another leads to HCT.

“Wounded ~ Orphan ~ Universe”
Wounded - because it just had the entire future cut off.
Orphan - that was plucked by its parents the Megasystems.
Universe - Self explanatory, but it’s the universe where 616 Scott resides.
Megasystems - the term Phoenix uses, to describe Multiverse.