Originally posted by Mr Master
And yours is not an opinion?
That you're also obviously trying to impose?Please, I saw a moment of clarity between us,
don't become pompous like your mate.
You imply a moment of clarity, as if I was excepting your explanations. That didn’t happened, I simply wanted reaffirm where each stand over the given topic.
AGAIN ----
Reality 15104 did NOT appear in issue #154 when Jean amputated it's future,
Reality 15104 was clearly born the instant the story jumped into the Future.
On Panel:
Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - 150 YEARS in the Future (another Timeline)
we are in Reality 15104:
Page 32 of New X-men #150
The Phoenix Egg ... IN Reality 15104 (150 Years in the Future)
...............................................................................................
The Official "Here Comes Tomorrow" Bio clearly states this:
"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ...
First appearance, New X-Men #150"
...............................................................................................
There's no getting aorund this.
Reality 15104 began WAY BEFORE Jean did anything in issue #154.
Originally posted by Juntai
So the arguement is if HCT is the true future, and not a divergent at all, until it made to be so?
Jean was supposed to carry out her Phoenix work and exterminate Sublime who was a threat to evolution.
She let her human side get in the way and she became too emotionally involved with her native reality instead of carrying out her work.
As a result, she got killed and instead of Cyclops staying on with Emma to run the Institute, feeling guilty about Jeans death he abandoned her. That wasn't supposed to happen.
This lead 616 to run into the Here Comes Tomorrow.
Jean manifested again in reality, cut off this future, she then altered Cyclops reaction to Emma resulting in the Here Comes Tomorrow future she amputated, being just another possible future, because the events which created it were changed.
As stated in the bio Jeans tamperings then lead Cyclops to stick with Emma unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”
Jeans tamperings lead to the continuation of the 616 timeline as said by the bio. Here Comes Tomorrow, before Jean cut it off and replaced it, was the continuation of 616.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Come on dude,
obviously Jean had to tamper with Cyclops in the Present 616
in order to prevent that Timeline (possible Future) from diverging into "Here Comes Tomorrow"What other way was there for her to change that possible Future?
Obviously, by going back to the point of it's divergence, like any and all other Timelines
What GS states, is for all intents and purposes, Grant Morrison wrote New X-Men “HCT” arc to be the chronological future and not a possible one.
Originally posted by id369
Of course its an opinion. Interpretations are always opinions, actual facts are nothing more then using the said material with out interpretation.
Originally posted by id369
You imply a moment of clarity, as if I was excepting your explanations.
That didn’t happened,
I simply wanted reaffirm where each stand over the given topic.
No offense (sincerely) but it matters not whether you accept my explanations or not.
I know you will never, as I'm sure you know I will never accept yours,
concerning This particular debate atleast. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
Come on dude,
obviously Jean had to tamper with Cyclops in the Present 616
in order to prevent that Timeline (possible Future) from diverging into "Here Comes Tomorrow"What other way was there for her to change that possible Future?
Obviously, by going back to the point of it's divergence, like any and all other Timelines
Thats exactly my point Mr Master.
But you've been arguing that Jean repaired this future timeline that she amputated and yet now you're saying that of course Jean altered time to get rid of the future she amputated? 🤨
Originally posted by Mr Master
My bad., I thought you were implying my posts are opinions, while yours are fact.Actually, what I meant by clarity was us debating respectfully from now on.
No offense (sincerely) but it matters not whether you accept my explanations or not.
I know you will never, as I'm sure you know I will never accept yours,
concerning This particular debate atleast. 🙂
Because you maintaining your interpretation on this is integral to your hierarchy 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats exactly my point Mr Master.But you've been arguing that Jean repaired this future timeline that she amputated and yet now you're saying that of course Jean altered time to get rid of the future she amputated? 🤨
Why would Jean amputate a future she wanted, repair that future and then alter time so that future never existed? 😂
Originally posted by id369
What GS states, is for all intents and purposes,
Grant Morrison wrote New X-Men “HCT” arc to be the chronological future
and not a possible one.
.........................................................................................
Cause the "Here Comes Tomorrow" BIO clearly states:
Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the X Institute ...
unknowingly ensuring that at least One apocalyptic Future ...
would Not come to fruition" ...
.........................................................................................
Sounds to me, no, it most certainly is, just another possible Future.
.........................................................................................
I guess this is why the other bio also states:
"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future ... OF ... Reality - 15104"
.........................................................................................
Which fits in perfectly with the Concept of MANY possible Futures in 616.
.........................................................................................
Earth 691 - GOTG: (the 31st Century of the 616 Universe)
"There is a Second that wrestles with Eternity.
A heartbeat forever frozen in the tapestry of Time,
This is such a moment ...
The Year is 3017 A.D in ONE of the MANY Possible Futures of the Multiverse"
Originally posted by Mr Master
Really, where is that stated?.........................................................................................
Cause the "Here Comes Tomorrow" BIO clearly states:
[B]Cyclops
took up the responsibility of running the X Institute ...unknowingly ensuring that at least One apocalyptic Future ...
would Not come to fruition" ...
Sounds to me, no, it most certainly is, just another possible Future.[/B]
What seems to have escaped your notice is that if cutting off the Here Comes Tomorrow future, you are taken back to 616 present, then of course it WAS the direct continuation of the 616 timeline.
Jean altered Cyclops reaction to Emma and “In the modern era of Earth 616, Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the Xavier Institute, unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”
Here Comes Tomorrow was the direct continuation of 616 and by changing the event which lead to 616, Jean continued the main 616 timeline NOT another divergent reality. 😄
And the bio confirms this:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thats exactly my point Mr Master.But you've been arguing that Jean repaired this future timeline
that she amputated
There we go:
Like I said, Jean damaged said Future:
Like I said, Jean repaired said Future atomically:
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training,
NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
and yet now you're saying that of course Jean altered time
to get rid of the future she amputated?
On the otherhand,
Jean altered Reality 15104 (through Scott)
because the future-selves (in said Reality) of her friends were all screwed,
Wolvy died, Scott died and a whole mess was contained in there.
Now, even though these Future-selves were not the Templates (Originals of 616)
they were still representations of said templates,
and thus they were real, living beings,
that felt just as much misery as the Templates themselves would have,
had this incident occured withIN 616.
So Jean felt bad, and decided to change that outcome.
But Jean made that decision, she didn't have to,
like Quentin said:
"If it was me, I'd just let it die"
..................................................................................
Cause it's just a possible Future Timeline, nothing special.
Quentin can't be talking about 616, if he is, he's an idiot,
because in Marvel, if 616 dies, all of Marvel collapses.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Not me, Comic book you mean:There we go:
Like I said, Jean damaged said Future:
Like I said, Jean repaired said Future atomically:
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training,
NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."
Actually Scott altered Time, let's not forget that.
Jean used him as a plot device to accomplish the alteration, let's be clear.On the otherhand,
Jean altered Reality 15104 (through Scott)
because the future-selves (in said Reality) of her friends were all screwed,
Wolvy died, Scott died and a whole mess was contained in there.Now, even though these Future-selves were not the Templates (Originals of 616)
they were still representations of said templates,
and thus they were real, living beings,
that felt just as much misery as the Templates themselves would have,
had this incident occured withIN 616.So Jean felt bad, and decided to change that outcome.
But Jean made that decision, she didn't have to,
like Quentin said:"If it was me, [B]I'd just let it die
"..................................................................................
Cause it's just a possible Future Timeline, nothing special.
Quentin can't be talking about 616, if he is, he's an idiot,
because in Marvel, if 616 dies, all of Marvel collapses. [/B]
Cyclops never changed time. Cyclops was just a part of the timeline. Without Jeans intervention Cyclops would have done the same thing over and over without outside intervention.
Jeans emotional involvement, instead of just doing her Phoenix work resulted in the Here Comes Tomorrow future.
Jean never repaired that future. Why would she amputate something she intended to repair?
If you look at that scan carefully you can see that the Consciousness tells Jean to turn to the hospital and while shes looking back at the Crystal, the amputated future is being carried away by a birdlike claw in the opposite direction.
Jean walks into the crystal emty handed.
She then materializes 616.
If it was the AMPUTATED future she manifested in the crystal, then why would she let it be carried away outside the crystal in the opposite direction, only for her to have to materialize it as soon as she stepped into the crystal?
If it was the amputated future within the crystal then why had the colour changed from green to purple?
If it was the amputated future she was repairing then why would she go on to alter time so that that future never existed in the first place as stated. Why would she even bother? 😕
Why would Jean hear the events of 616 from an amputated future that was isolated from the timeline?
How could Jean apply changes to 616 by applying her power to an isolated timeline that contains events AFTER the 616 present?
We've just seen Mr Masters above.
He claims Jean amputates the HCT future, takes it into the White Hot Room, repairs this amputated future and then from this amputated future somehow manages to directly affect the present of 616 😬
Here is my interpretation of HCT:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Cyclops was meant to stay with Emma and continue the work of the X-men. Jean as Phoenix was meant to cut all ties with her former humanity and eradicate Sublime from reality. She is only around to perform her Phoenix work that is her role.That is why the Phoenix began manifesting within her again; around the same time Sublime was making big moves to eradicate what it perceived to be the mutant threat.
The Phoenix manifestation appears and gives Charles visions of what’s to come. It visualizes the destruction of New York at Xornetos hands as Charles asks [B] “Are these words from the future?”
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Instead of just performing her role, Jean let her human side take over and became too emotionally involved with her native reality, she got involved in situations she should not have and whilst trying to appeal to Xorneto’s kinder side she was killed:As a result of her inaction, Cyclops heartbroken and grief ridden, abandoned Emma and then this lead to the formation of what would later be called reality 15104, Here Comes Tomorrow:
616 was never meant to diverge into reality 15104:
Cassandra Nova noted that the universe was broken and that there was a point in time which lead to this apocalyptic future:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The comic then goes back to the present(616) to show us what that divergent point was:[B]150 years earlier
and it has taken us back to 616. If it was a totally different reality it would have said so. If it was a totally different reality then why would the comic show a direct link with 616?Because 15104 is NOT a separate parallel reality, it is a divergent future, meaning it IS 616 until a divergence point, an event not meant to happen causes reality to splinter off. [/B]
