Originally posted by Mr Master
Which is why I said [B]possible Futures. 🙂In a scenerio built on speculation? Sure.
In Marvel Comics? No.Besides the Fact that nor Morrison or anyone else has claimed that,
Both Bios state it's just One Future:
.........................................................................................
"Here Comes Tomorrow" BIO clearly states:
Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the X Institute ...
unknowingly ensuring that at least One apocalyptic Future ...
would Not come to fruition" ...
.........................................................................................
Sounds to me, no, it most certainly is, just another possible Future.
.........................................................................................
I guess this is why the other bio also states:
"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future ... OF ... Reality - 15104"
.........................................................................................
Which fits in perfectly with the Concept of MANY possible Futures in 616.
.........................................................................................
Earth 691 - GOTG: (the 31st Century of the 616 Universe)
"There is a Second that wrestles with Eternity.
A heartbeat forever frozen in the tapestry of Time,
This is such a moment ...The Year is 3017 A.D in ONE of the MANY Possible Futures of the Multiverse"
Again, we can jump around forcing ourselves to believe that,
but the Fact is, THIS particular Future, was just another Possible One,
which is exactly Why,
the story is located in another Reality/Timeline and NOT in 616:...............................................................................................
The Official "Here Comes Tomorrow" Bio clearly states this:
"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ...
First appearance, New X-Men #150"
...............................................................................................
The Real 616 Future, will appear on panel,
when Time passes by and that Future is reached.(Only way to be certain)
Again, TWO bios confirm, it's just another possible Future like SO MANY Others.
Now, if you can present proof
that Marvel made the "Here Comes Tomorrow" Future, it's definite Future,
I'll concede, if not ... well, it's just a respected unsupported opinion,
respected .. but of no consequence.
Especially when it directly contradicts what Marvel has confirmed. [/B]
but mm, because it is no longer THE 616 future, it is AUTOMATICALLY designated an 'alternate'.
in the arc itself, is the 150 year future ever officially called 616?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Which is why I said [B]possible Futures. 🙂In a scenerio built on speculation? Sure.
In Marvel Comics? No.Besides the Fact that nor Morrison or anyone else has claimed that,
Both Bios state it's just One Future:
.........................................................................................
"Here Comes Tomorrow" BIO clearly states:
Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the X Institute ...
unknowingly ensuring that at least One apocalyptic Future ...
would Not come to fruition" ...
.........................................................................................
Sounds to me, no, it most certainly is, just another possible Future.
.........................................................................................
I guess this is why the other bio also states:
"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future ... OF ... Reality - 15104"
.........................................................................................
Which fits in perfectly with the Concept of MANY possible Futures in 616.
.........................................................................................
Earth 691 - GOTG: (the 31st Century of the 616 Universe)
"There is a Second that wrestles with Eternity.
A heartbeat forever frozen in the tapestry of Time,
This is such a moment ...The Year is 3017 A.D in ONE of the MANY Possible Futures of the Multiverse"
Again, we can jump around forcing ourselves to believe that,
but the Fact is, THIS particular Future, was just another Possible One,
which is exactly Why,
the story is located in another Reality/Timeline and NOT in 616:...............................................................................................
The Official "Here Comes Tomorrow" Bio clearly states this:
"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ...
First appearance, New X-Men #150"
...............................................................................................
The Real 616 Future, will appear on panel,
when Time passes by and that Future is reached.(Only way to be certain)
Again, TWO bios confirm, it's just another possible Future like SO MANY Others.
Now, if you can present proof
that Marvel made the "Here Comes Tomorrow" Future, it's definite Future,
I'll concede, if not ... well, it's just a respected unsupported opinion,
respected .. but of no consequence.
Especially when it directly contradicts what Marvel has confirmed. [/B]
The bios state it is ONE future because now that IS the case.
However before Jean amputated and replaced it, it was the direct continuation of 616.
The bios support this because it was 616 Cyclops' reaction to Emma, that determined how 616 would continue.
“In the modern era of Earth 616, Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the Xavier Institute, unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”
By changing Cyclops reaction as stated the Here Comes Tomorrow future was prevented. That PROVES that Here Comes Tomorrow was the direct continuation of 616 and would have been in place if not for Jeans intervention.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Same ol, same ol, whoever agrees with you is an interpretational god,
whoever disagrees with you has either comprehension problems,
or they're cronies ey gs?Somethings will never change. 😂
Says you?!! 😱
The slightest hint that you can sway someone to your side and you flatter them with titles such as "true debator"!! 😬
Originally posted by Mr Master
😆Leo agrees with you and not with me, you must think I'm surprised.
you prolly won't believe it, but we've been on opposite sides many times too. 🙂 we started off on the wrong side when i first joined.
as far as this issue is concerned -- i think the only way to definitively put it to rest is to know if the future was declared 616 in the arc itself. if it was the argument should be closed. if it isn't then it remains open for interpretation.
Originally posted by leonidas
but mm, because it is no longer THE 616 future,
it is AUTOMATICALLY designated an 'alternate'.
Btw, again, it was never 'The' 616 Future,
it was always just another possible Future.
I showed you the Two official bios stating so,
I showed the On Panel scans that corroborates what the bio confirms,
and I also showed you,
how the GOTG's Reality 691 is just another possible Future of 616,
no different than 15104,
so what makes 15104 special?
Nothing, except for the agenda minded. 😏 (not you)
If you wish to overlook the evidence I just posted, fine,
but we really can't debate this if you're gonna do that.
Originally posted by leonidas
in the arc itself, is the 150 year future ever officially called 616?
Jean messing with Scott back on 616 to change 15104 makes sense,
because that's how ALL Diverged Timelines are created,
by splitting at some point from 616.
Originally posted by leonidas
you prolly won't believe it, but we've been on opposite sides many times too. 🙂 we started off on the wrong side when i first joined.as far as this issue is concerned -- i think the only way to definitively put it to rest is to know if the future was declared 616 in the arc itself. if it was the argument should be closed. if it isn't then it remains open for interpretation.
You know me, if it existed i would have plastered it over these forums a looong time ago 😂
But surely the fact that 616 Cyclops reaction results directly in Here Comes Tomorrow OR what we're reading now and not AND what we're reading now shows that its a direct continuation of 616? 😕
That basically counters your most recent post Mr Master.
You must have missed it before 😕
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
616 has a future.Here Comes Tomorrow was presented as the direct continuation of 616.
That is why when Phoenix cut off 616 and altered the event which created 616(Cyclops reaction to Emma) 616 and NOT a divergent reality, continued.
Once again i will highlight the bios support of this:
[B] “In the modern era of Earth 616, Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the Xavier Institute, unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”
Here Comes Tomorrow was 616, until Jean cut it off and changed the event which created it. Once she had replaced HCT, it became just another future instead of THE future, it was at this point that it gained the designation 15104.
By saying that, what i am NOT saying is that 15104 was created the moment Jean replaced it, because thats not true, it first appearred the moment Cyclops abandoned Emma, however it wasn't until Jean separated and replaced it, making it NOT 616, that a different reality designation was required to distinguish it.
🙂 [/B]
The bios recount what has happened.
Here Comes Tomorrow was amputated and replaced, therefore it is NOT 616. The moment that happened it became just another future, therefore the bios are perfectly correct 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe slightest hint that you can sway someone to your side
and you flatter them with titles such as "true debator"!!
This is still a bunch of pompous snot being sneeze out.
Btw, Jun was sorta disagreeing with me,
and I still called him a true debater, becasue imo, he is.
You on the otherhand,
will label anyone as "there's still hope for this forum" if they agree with you. 🙄
Originally posted by Mr Master
So I have to "sway" them, while you simply are right, so they agree?This is still a bunch of pompous snot being sneeze out.
Btw, Jun was sorta disagreeing with me,
and I still called him a true debater, becasue imo, he is.You on the otherhand,
will label anyone as "there's still hope for this forum" if they agree with you. 🙄
You love me really don't you? droolio
Come on!!! Admit it!!! 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStormBut surely the fact that 616 Cyclops reaction results directly in Here Comes Tomorrow
It's been happening since "What if" #1
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
OR what we're reading now and not
AND what we're reading now shows that its a direct continuation of 616?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah, all that shows is that Timelines diverge from 616,
I could've told that when I was 17.It's been happening since "What if" #1
"what we're reading now?" 😕
Noooooo.
The point is, that Cyclops reaction resulted in either the continuation of the 616 timeline as we're reading now OR Here Comes Tomorrow, NOT and Here Comes Tomorrow.
A divergent timeline, diverges from 616 and 616 carries on simultaneously.
This never happened.
It was one or the other!! 😱
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually friend, it was designated an alternate, (Reality 15104)
the second the story was placed 150 years in the Future.Btw, again, it was never 'The' 616 Future,
it was always just another possible Future.I showed you the Two official bios stating so,
I showed the On Panel scans that corroborates what the bio confirms,
and I also showed you,
how the GOTG's Reality 691 is just another possible Future of 616,
no different than 15104,
so what makes 15104 special?Nothing, except for the agenda minded. 😏 (not you)
If you wish to overlook the evidence I just posted, fine,
but we really can't debate this if you're gonna do that.It's not called either 616 or 15104, (on panel)
we know it was 15104 all along,
because Both Bios (as You saw) establish this as a fact.Jean messing with Scott back on 616 to change 15104 makes sense,
because that's how ALL Diverged Timelines are created,
by splitting at some point from 616.
i'm not actually discounting your interpretation, actually. i can see BOTH sides of this. i just happen to think BOTH are equally valid. like i said, i think the only way to definitively answer the question would be to have had the future declared 616 in the arc itself. without that i don't think there is anyway to say it was or wasn't intended to be the 'true' 616 future. basically you're saying it was an alternate future from the get-go. gs is saying it is NOW an alternate future but previously (before it was altered) it was the 'true' future of the 616.
i think gs's interpretation is what morrison was intending, personally. to say he was intending -- as he wrote it --that it was just some meaningless future that had no real relevence to the 'main universe' seems to demean the effort of writing the story in the first place. morrison has always gone for the 'grand plan', so, imo, gs's interpretation just . . . fits better with me.
the bios you showed can STILL be viewed as accurate, because, again, that future HAS been relegated as a 'possible' future by virtue of its having been amputated. of course, your own view is also valid. lacking the definitive in-story proof, i think it boils down to a choice of equally valid interpretations. 😬
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
That basically counters your most recent post Mr Master.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The bios recount what has happened.Here Comes Tomorrow was amputated and replaced,
therefore it is NOT 616.
The moment that happened it became just another future,
therefore the bios are perfectly correct
the Bio states that "Here Comes Tomorrow" began in issue #150.
That's Reality 15104 (150 Years) in the Future:
...............................................................................................
The Official "Here Comes Tomorrow" [B]Bio clearly states this:
"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ...
First appearance, New X-Men #150"
...............................................................................................
On Panel, it's clearly depicted on the last two pages of New X-Men #150:
...............................................................................................
AGAIN ----
Reality 15104 did NOT appear in issue #154 when Jean amputated it's future,
Reality 15104 was clearly born the instant the story jumped into the Future.
On Panel:
Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - 150 YEARS in the Future (another Timeline)
we are in Reality 15104:
Page 32 of New X-men #150
The Phoenix Egg ... IN Reality 15104 (150 Years in the Future)
...............................................................................................
Spin it, twist it,
but you can't get any unbiased cat to see it any other way. 🙂
Here Comes Tomorrow was therefore the direct continuation of 616 and the handbooks support this by stating that Cyclops reaction resulted in him staying with Emma (which is the continuation of the 616 timeline as we know it) as opposed to the apocalyptic future of HCT which would have come to fruition without Jeans intervention.
Once again, a divergent future separates from 616 and 616 happens regardless.
Examples of divergent futures are Cables, Rachels and the GOTG futures.
In this case, it was Here Comes Tomorrow OR what we're reading now. 😱
It was the direct continuation 🙂
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe point is, that Cyclops reaction resulted in either the continuation of the 616 timeline as we're reading now
OR Here Comes Tomorrow, NOT and Here Comes Tomorrow.
lmao
I'm saving this for laughs, if this is the case.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Wait, so now you have the gaul to claim,
that everything in Marvel comics after "Here Comes Tomorrow" arc is result of said arc?lmao
I'm saving this for laughs, if this is the case.
that view is the ONLY view one can take if it is believed that it really was the 'true' 616 future that was both replaced then subsequently altered. 😕
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not actually discounting your interpretation, actually. i can see BOTH sides of this. i just happen to think BOTH are equally valid. like i said, i think the only way to definitively answer the question would be to have had the future declared 616 in the arc itself. without that i don't think there is anyway to say it was or wasn't intended to be the 'true' 616 future. basically you're saying it was an alternate future from the get-go. gs is saying it is NOW an alternate future but previously (before it was altered) it was the 'true' future of the 616.i think gs's interpretation is what morrison was intending, personally. to say he was intending -- as he wrote it --that it was just some meaningless future that had no real relevence to the 'main universe' seems to demean the effort of writing the story in the first place. morrison has always gone for the 'grand plan', so, imo, gs's interpretation just . . . fits better with me.
the bios you showed can STILL be viewed as accurate, because, again, that future HAS been relegated as a 'possible' future by virtue of its having been amputated. of course, your own view is also valid. lacking the definitive in-story proof, i think it boils down to a choice of equally valid interpretations. 😬
Cool.
So with regards to what happened in the White Hot Room, what do you believe.
Mr Master believes:
Jean amputated the Here Comes Tomorrow future,
let it be carried away by some mysterious bird like claw
only for Jean to manifest it again within the crystal and repair it,
then she held this amputated future she had just repaired and after hearing events from the past of 616 from it ( 🤨 ) changed the past so that this amputated future never existed 😬
I on the other hand believe Jean amputated this future (You amputate something that is harmful to main body and you want to get rid of)
Only for the claw to carry it away
Jean was then ordered to the "hospital" (White Hot Room) to treat the "wounded patient"(keep in mind the amputation) which she was told she needed to grow a new future for.
There she manifested 616 in her hand(616 Jeans bio is now updated to say she can manipulate atomic structures on an universal scale)
She then proceeds to gaze into 616 and hear events from it.
Jean then reaches in with her mind and alters 616, changing Cyclops reaction, resulting in a future to replace HCT.
🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
that view is the ONLY view one can take if it is believed that it really was the 'true' 616 future that was both replaced then subsequently altered. 😕
I'm not being stupid am I? 😕
Everytime i state that, he confusingly mocks the statement and makes me out to be some madman.
If Jeans manipulation perpetuated the 616 timeline then of course her actions resulted in what we're reading now. 😬
