Go on!!!! Surprise us!! 😄
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Why would Jean [B]AMPUTATE a reality, only to repair it and then change events in 616 so that that same reality did not exist? 🤨Thats the most ridiculous notion i've ever heard 😂
How would Jean affect 616 by applying her power to an amputated future that is NOT connected to the timestream?😕
How would Jean hear the events of 616's past by gazing into an amputated future which never experienced those events? 😕 [/B]
You want that to say 616, but it does NOT,
it clearly says, the Future OF Reality 15104.
i don't WANT it to say anything. however, you're presenting a point that is redundant to YOUR interpretation. you have said numerous times that teh terms realities and universes can be interchangeable. you've also clearly stated your notion that divergent timelines are new universes -- this is also what they are called in that timeline picture. so, of course it stands to reason then that it would say "OF REALITY 15104," because, that future -- by virtue of having NOW been replaced -- IS AN ALTERNATE/DIVERGENT/"NEW UNIVERSE".
however, that does NOT mean that BEFORE it was altered, that it was not, at one time, 'the true 616 future'. again, all the bios in the world won't matter because they are all retroactively done -- the divergence has ALREADY occurred so they MUST be designated differently than 616.
Originally posted by Air Legend
It's funny how people can easily be swayed by over-sized not readable scans with a lot of rambling. However, it's what I expect from a comic vs forum.
When GOTG (the year 3017) almost 1000 years later,
which has been in production FAR before '"Here Comes Tomorrow" was even published,
is not.
Yea, ok, Grant is the end all and be all of Marvel, 'and only his story counts as legit.
Ha, not to mention OTHER possibleFutureS like:
To name a few ...
2099,
Bishop's,
Cable (Earth 4935)
Kang (Earth-6311)
Korvac (Earth-691)
Stryfe (Earth-4935
Ahab-Nimrod-Marvel Girl (Earth-811)
Holocaust-X-Man (Earth 295)
Meh, this arc takes place in a 616 Timeline in the year 3099:
That's FAR beyond Scott's 2154.
(so which is the true, direct Future? .... Yea I know, take your pick. 😂
Originally posted by Air Legend
I suppose you've swayed many with your scans to Mr M, but I've never seen you purposely try to exaggerate feats of a character or exaggerate in general. Can't say the same for GS.The bios state that she severed an alternate future of reality 15104...NOT an alternate reality of 616. But even if we say she severed a possible future of 616, that is simply what she did. She severed one of many possible futures, which isn't going to help her get past 3, if she somehow manages to get past 2.
His interpretation just doesn't make sense. ( I can say that too gs) whoopi doo.
See gs,
you think if you and another poster pat each other in the back it means something?
Nah son.
Originally posted by leonidas
i don't WANT it to say anything. however, you're presenting a point that is redundant to YOUR interpretation. you have said numerous times that teh terms realities and universes can be interchangeable. you've also clearly stated your notion that divergent timelines are new universes -- this is also what they are called in that timeline picture. so, of course it stands to reason then that it would say "OF REALITY 15104," because, that future -- by virtue of having NOW been replaced -- IS AN ALTERNATE/DIVERGENT/"NEW UNIVERSE".however, that does NOT mean that BEFORE it was altered, that it was not, at one time, 'the true 616 future'. again, all the bios in the world won't matter because they are all retroactively done -- the divergence has ALREADY occurred so they MUST be designated differently than 616.
Either he's stubbornly insistent on keeping his hierarchy thread intact or we've grossly over-estimated his intelligence 😂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Mr Master stated that:All Jean did through Scott was change the [B]616
present so that reality 15104 never existed.Hence the reason i quoted the bio:
. “In the modern era of Earth 616, Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the Xavier Institute, unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”
You with me now? 😕 [/B]
Originally posted by Mr Master
The funniest part I've read is,
cats thinking "here Comes Tomorrow" (the year 2154)
is the "real" Future of 616 😆When GOTG (the year 3017) almost 1000 years later,
which has been in production FAR before '"Here Comes Tomorrow" was even published,
is not.Yea, ok, Grant is the end all and be all of Marvel, 'and only his story counts as legit.
Ha, not to mention OTHER possibleFutureS like:
To name a few ...
2099,
Bishop's,
Cable (Earth 4935)
Kang (Earth-6311)
Korvac (Earth-691)
Stryfe (Earth-4935
Ahab-Nimrod-Marvel Girl (Earth-811)
Holocaust-X-Man (Earth 295)Meh, this arc takes place in a 616 Timeline in the year 3099:
That's FAR beyond Scott's 2154.
(so which is the true, direct Future? .... Yea I know, take your pick. 😂
👆
His interpretation just doesn't make sense. ( I can say that too gs) whoopi doo.
See gs,
you think if you and another poster pat each other in the back it means something?Nah son.
Silly boy.
🙂
The difference is, the guardians of the Galaxy future exists and develops ALONGSIDE 616. It is NOT 616 as we know it OR GOTG.
It is just one of many futures.
However, unlike these other futures, it was 616 as we know it OR Here Comes Tomorrow.
Cyclops decision to abandon Emma never resulted in 15104 whilst the 616 we're reading now carried on.
Cyclops decision resulted in 616 turning into HCT.
When Jean altered his mind:
. “In the modern era of Earth 616, Cyclops took up the responsibility of running the Xavier Institute, unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”
HCT never came to fruition 😄
Originally posted by Air Legend
I was expecting this response. But take note of the last part "unknowingly ensuring that at least one apocalyptic future would not come to fruition”. And which apocalyptic future is it talking about? Reality 15104's apocalyptic future. 🙂
Which became JUST ONE because it was no longer THE future of 616.
Good try mate 😂
Originally posted by leonidas
i don't WANT it to say anything.
Originally posted by leonidas
however, you're presenting a point that is redundant to YOUR interpretation.
Originally posted by leonidas
you have said numerous times that teh terms realities and universes can be interchangeable.
Originally posted by leonidas
you've also clearly stated your notion that divergent timelines are new universes -- this is also what they are called in that timeline picture.
so, of course it stands to reason then that it would say "OF REALITY 15104," because, that future -- by virtue of having NOW been replaced --
IS AN ALTERNATE/DIVERGENT/"NEW UNIVERSE".
Jean amputated that Future BEFORE she altered 15104 through Scott.
So that doesn't fly.
Originally posted by leonidas
however, that does NOT mean that BEFORE it was altered, that it was not,
at one time, 'the true 616 future'.
There's NO such thing, as the 'true 616 future' ...
until said Future arrives in real time.
That's how Marvel has established it's cosmological make-up of Time.
Originally posted by leonidas
again, all the bios in the world won't matter
Sorry, I have to disagree with this assessment.
Originally posted by leonidas
because they are all retroactively done --
the divergence has ALREADY occurred
so they MUST be designated differently than 616.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Please, address posts directed at you,
I'm sure your boy can handle himself friend.Your opinion.
What does this have to do with this particular debate friend?
Your opinion."replaced?"
Jean amputated that Future BEFORE she altered 15104 through Scott.
So that doesn't fly.
A simple amputation wouldn't have necessitated a new designation.
Come on MM a little common sense. The event which caused HCt in the first place had to be changed so that HCT could never come to fruition.
If Jean hadn't altered the 616 present then Cyclops would have done the same thing creating HCT again.
Originally posted by Mr Master
It was NEVER the 'true 616 future', NOT ever.There's NO such thing, as the 'true 616 future' ...
until said Future arrives in real time.That's how Marvel has established it's cosmological make-up of Time.
So all that matters is gs's vision of what took place, I see.
Sorry, I have to disagree with this assessment.
Believe what you wish.
616 has a fated future.
It is stated on panel that ecents are supposed to happen in a certain way.
If they don't, then divergent realities can be the result, whilst the main 616 timeline will carry on as its supposed to.
The difference with HCT is that it never split off whilst 616 carried on as normal. Scott abandoning Emma lead 616 into HCT.
It wasn't HCT and the continuation of 616, it was the continuation OR 616.
That is how you know HCT WAS the direct continuation of 616.
However after Jeans involvement, it was amputated and replaced thereby becoming just another possible future.
Therefore the bios are completely correct and they don't prove me wrong in the slightest. 😄
Originally posted by leonidas
nah, not stupid at all.unless we're BOTH stupid . . . 😬
and your interpretation of the events in the whr seem logical enough to me. and again, to restate your point -- the bois do NOT contradict the view that it WAS the 'true' future of 616.
having that future designated as a divergent timeline NOW, because it is no longer the 'real 616 future' only stands to reason. had that scan that starts with "150 years later" at the top of it said somewhere that we were viewing 15104, THEN mm could definitively declare his pov.
however, since it does NOT (nor does it say it is 616 but it seems that is the assumption almost any reader is INTENDED to make, cuz, don't forget, most 'normal' folk don't look at things as deeply as we do and it would have been written for the 'masses' who again would have interpretted it as being 616's future) there can be no way to say FOR CERTAIN that it really was 15104 from the start. bios that retroactively state it is divergent are really inconsequential because the need for a new designation for that future is self-evident. 😬
👆
Originally posted by Air Legend
But of course you're going to add your own fallacious opinion
to what the bio has stated to exaggerate the character you cockride.
Beware of the almighty Phoenix:
......................................................................................
Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey ...
and exploding the actual Phoenix Force itself in Billions of pieces:
......................................................................................
On Panel:
......................................................................................
Beast remembers:
......................................................................................
Bio: Confirms the event!
......................................................................................
(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)
"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,
this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"
......................................................................................
This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"
"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES"
😆
Originally posted by Mr Master
Please, address posts directed at you,
I'm sure your boy can handle himself friend.
😂
that point WAS addressed to me. need a scorecard? or just less reposts? 🙂
Jean amputated that Future BEFORE she altered 15104 through Scott.So that doesn't fly.
that would imply there was -- for a brief time -- no real 616 future. not the best scenario, admittedly. however, your opinion that the whole arc was never at any time set in 616 is equally unpalatable.
It was NEVER the 'true 616 future', NOT ever.
your opinion.
There's NO such thing, as the 'true 616 future' ...
until said Future arrives in real time.
not according to that diagram everyone was talking about.
That's how Marvel has established it's cosmological make-up of Time.
there have been many characters who have shown the ability to predict or see the future in marvel. that indicates there IS a predetermined timeline. your argument makes for nothing EXCEPT divergent timelines. i decide to write with a pencil rather than a pen. am i in a divergent timeline? was the me who chose to use the pen in the 'real' 616 timeline? you've no way of declaring with anything remotely close to certainty that your interpretation of marvel's vision of 'time' is correct. both according to what was drawn, and the idea that divergent timelines all branch off 616, would indicate that there is indeed a true 616 timeline, one that if broken would destroy everything else with it.
So all that matters is gs's vision of what took place, I see.
😂
Sorry, I have to disagree with this assessment.
i expected anything else?
Believe what you wish.
will do. always a pleasure, mm. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
😂that point WAS addressed to me. need a scorecard? or just less reposts?
Originally posted by leonidas
that would imply there was -- for a brief time -- no real 616 future.
not the best scenario, admittedly.
however,
your opinion that the whole arc was never at any time set in 616 is equally unpalatable.
It began in 15104, and ended in 15104.
Admittedly, Jean did mind rape Scott in 616, at the very end.
(but this had nothing to do with applying power to any reality, just one individual)
Originally posted by leonidas
your opinion.
Originally posted by leonidas
not according to that diagram everyone was talking about.
The real Future doesn't exist, because it hasn't arrived yet. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
there have been many characters who have shown the ability to predict
or see the future in marvel.
Originally posted by leonidas
that indicates there IS a predetermined timeline.
your argument makes for nothing EXCEPT divergent timelines.
Nah, I'll keep it respectful. 😇
Originally posted by leonidas
i decide to write with a pencil rather than a pen. am i in a divergent timeline?
was the me who chose to use the pen in the 'real' 616 timeline?
you've no way of declaring with anything remotely close to certainty
that your interpretation of marvel's vision of 'time' is correct.
Originally posted by leonidas
the idea that divergent timelines all branch off 616,
would indicate that there is indeed a true 616 timeline,
one that if broken would destroy everything else with it.
Again, Marvel's 616 Timeline is in accordance with our real World timetable.
In the latest Hulk issue (Damage Control) the war in Iraq is actually reference.
(just one ie)
Originally posted by leonidas
😂
Originally posted by leonidas
i expected anything else?
Originally posted by leonidas
will do. always a pleasure, mm.
Originally posted by Air Legend
The debate should have ended here.
"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104"
If she severed the alternate future of 616, it would have said she severed the alternate future of reality 616.
The comic outweighs the bios in every shape and form. No reference is made that HCT took place in an alternate reality, just that this future occupying the present time slot, which had naturally progressed 150 years. The comic, and Grant Morrison address HCT as the chronological progression in history before Phoenix intervention.
Originally posted by Air Legend
👆It's funny how people can easily be swayed by over-sized not readable scans with a lot of rambling. However, it's what I expect from a comic vs forum.
I suppose you've swayed many with your scans to Mr M, but I've never seen you purposely try to exaggerate feats of a character or exaggerate in general. Can't say the same for GS.
The bios state that she severed an alternate future of reality 15104...NOT an alternate reality of 616. But even if we say she severed a possible future of 616, that is simply what she did. She severed one of [B]many
possible futures, which isn't going to help her get past 3, if she somehow manages to get past 2. [/B]
You also have the second feat, which is the manifestation of an entire reality and controlling it atomically.
Originally posted by Mr MasterI agree. But the certain end of said Timeline cannot be seen,
until we reach said point in Time in the real world.
The very reason divergent timelines are created is because the future is set in stone.
If events occur which are not supposed to, then that event causes reality to branch off into a divergent reality, WHILSTthe 616 reality carries on.
The point has been stated on panel. The future has already been decided.
Why do you think future characters can come to the present(or the past for them)?
Here Comes Tomorrow however was the direct continuation of 616.
It never existed alongside 616, it existed INSTEAD OF IT.
That is why Phoenix had to cut it off and then change Scotts reaction.
Why would she bother if it was just another divergent future? Other divergent futures exist without doing any harm. 😕
