WC Phoenix runs a mini DC gauntlet!

Originally posted by leonidas

as soon as someone returns to the 616 and alters anything of consequence, the future that WOULD have resulted then becomes relegated to a POSSIBLE future.

in your cable example it WAS the 'true' 616 future, until when . . .? UNTIL IT WAS ALTERED and kept from becoming said future. there ARE dozens of apocalyptic futures -- none are realized, all are divergent because they have been ALTERED and so they are no longer the 'true' 616 timeline.

you are absolutley correct when you said marvel has shown a truckload of 'real' 616 futures. none of those futures ever have the chance to come about though because they are altered before that can happen. all those futures are designated differently and acknowledged RETROACTIVELY, just like all your bios do.

Originally posted by leonidas
do you realize the implications of your interpretation? do you understand that by following your logic the current x-books (and many others, apparently) ARE OUT OF CONTINUITY!

You lost me there.

616 is Not the only canon Universe,
616 is just the mainstream/Prime Reality,
but other Universes are just a valid as having had existed withIN the Prime Multiverse.

Originally posted by leonidas
sigh. it's unfortunate that you're unwilling to even admit the limitations and problems -- let alone address said limitations --
that arise from your interpretation of events.

The whole discussion for over 20 pages or so was,
Jean affected the "real" Future of 616,
because she touched Scott in Present 616 to affect said Future.

Well,
I presented sevaral examples of OTHERS doing the same thing, the SAME thing.

Imo, you're the one who's willingly ignoring that,
although, I thought you saw the light and recognized that in your above quote,
guess I misunderstood what you were implying. 🙁

Originally posted by leonidas
can't say i didn't give you the chance to hash it out.

You saw the proof,
but instead, you tell me to "admit to limitations of interpretations" ... huh?

I'm not interpreting anything,
because there's no room to speculate on this one friend,

I was just showing you what I've been arguing from the beginning,
"Here Comes Tomorrow" was Never a special case,
or the "absolute definite" Future of 616,
and I proved it, conclusively.

Originally posted by leonidas
but, whatever.

All I wanna read is,
I agree based on the irrefutable evidence,
that "Here Comes Tomorrow" was not the definite Future of 616,
because EVIDENTLY, there are MANY supposed "definite FutureS" connected to 616.

Question: What exactly was the Here Comes Tomorrow future being seperated from, if not the 616?

Bottomline:

..............................................................................................................

========Earth - 4935 (the Year 3806 of 616) ========

This Future (in it's entirety) is ALTERED from again,

the MODERN ERA of 616 (Present)

"Christmas Day in 3806 Canaanites consolidate control,
Stryfe fled to Earth-616's MODERN ERA, (Present)
Tyler was captured by the Canaanites and ... was SENT to the PAST as well"

To the WHAT? ... TO THE PAST!!! (616's Modern Era)

"Nathan ALSO went BACK in Time,
hoping to PREVENT Apocalypse's rule from ever occurring,
ARRIVING Years BEFORE His Birth, he took the name Cable,
Ultimately, Cable destroyed Apocalypse in the PRESENT,
DIVERGING His FUTURE from Earth-616"

.................................................................................................................

Hmm ...
Isn't that exactly what Jean did?
(change A Future by affecting Scott on 616?)

................................................................................................................

yawn

Nothing further to say,
nothing further, need be said.

If "Here Comes Tomorrow" is the "real" Future of 616,
simply because Jean touched Scott in the Present 616
to affect said Future (Here Comes Tomorrow)

Then Marvel has a truck load of "Real" FutureS,
since ALL of my examples revolve around the SAME exact action.
ALL of those stories above involve traveling to the PAST (Present 616)
in order to alter events in different FutureS.

Funny thing is ... I only posted some of them. (there's many more)

Meh, and the Cable example cements my argument,
as he ALTERED his entire FUTURE Reality,
by traveling to the Past (Present 616) and manipulating events there.

................................................................................................................

There's no getting aorund this. 🙂

Originally posted by King Kandy
Question: What exactly was the Here Comes Tomorrow future being seperated from, if not the 616?

Wouldn't it being the future essentially make it a universe anyway?

Therefore meaning she was manipulating an entire universe?

srug

Originally posted by King Kandy
Question: What exactly was the Here Comes Tomorrow future being seperated from,
if not the 616?

"Here Comes Tomorrow" was always Reality 15104 (a possible Future of 616)

Because it was a possible Future, it was never 616's direct Future,
instead, it was always an alternate Reality:

...............................................................................................

And like I said, it was ALWAYS Reality 15104 from the very beginning:

...............................................................................................

The Official "Here Comes Tomorrow" Bio clearly states this:

"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ...

First appearance, New X-Men #150"

...............................................................................................

If you read the arc, you'l notice that's exactly when "Here Comes Tomorrow"
begins On Panel.

In issue #150,
the instant the story jumped 150 Years into the Future:

On Panel:

Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - 150 YEARS in the Future (another Timeline)

we are in Reality 15104:

Page 32 of New X-men #150

The Phoenix Egg ... IN Reality 15104 (150 Years in the Future)

...............................................................................................

This is exactly why, it was the Future of Reality 15104 she amputated,
not of any other reality:

"In ONE Future,

Phoenix severed the Alternate Future ... OF ... Reality - 15104"

..................................................................................

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Wouldn't it being the future essentially make it a universe anyway?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Therefore meaning she was manipulating an entire universe?

But seriously, Jean did repair Reality 15104's Future atomically,
although, she needed to be in the WHR (Hospital for realities) to perform this task.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yup.

Yea, if you consider Scott, an entire Universe.

But seriously, Jean did repair Reality 15104's Future atomically,
although, she needed to be in the WHR (Hospital for realities) to perform this task.

Originally posted by Mr Master
"Here Comes Tomorrow" was never separated from anything.

"Here Comes Tomorrow" was always Reality 15104 (a possible Future of 616)

Because it was a possible Future, it was never 616's direct Future,
instead, it was always an alternate Reality:

...............................................................................................

And like I said, it was ALWAYS Reality 15104 from the very beginning:

...............................................................................................

The Official "Here Comes Tomorrow" [B]Bio clearly states this:

"Here Comes Tomorrow ... Earth 15104 ...

First appearance, New X-Men #150"

...............................................................................................

If you read the arc, you'l notice that's exactly when "Here Comes Tomorrow"
begins On Panel.

In issue #150,
the instant the story jumped 150 Years into the Future:

On Panel:

Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - 150 YEARS in the Future (another Timeline)

we are in Reality 15104:

Page 32 of New X-men #150

The Phoenix Egg ... IN Reality 15104 (150 Years in the Future)

...............................................................................................

This is exactly why, it was the Future of Reality 15104 she amputated,
not of any other reality:

"In ONE Future,

Phoenix severed the Alternate Future ... OF ... Reality - 15104"

.................................................................................. [/B]

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Aren't entire universe's made based on one's actions and futures...
or some shit you showed me from 1602?

Because then technically speaking,

Cyclops can create entire Universes with a thoguht,
and alter said entire UniverseS with another thought.
(since it was Cyclops that created 15104, and altered it with a thought)

Specifically targeting 1602,
that would make Captain America a Universal creator/destroyer as well.

I simply can't accept that.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea but,
that doesn't make one that caused the inadvertant
or intential alteration due to one's action,
a universal power.

Because then technically speaking,

Cyclops can create entire Universe with a thoguht,
and alter said entire UniverseS when with another thought.
(since it was Cyclops that created 15104, and altered it with a thought)

Specifically targeting 1602,
that would make Captain America a Universal creator/destroyer as well.

I simply can't accept that.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Right, that's what I mean... the alternate future (15104) was severed from... what?

So the Future of 15104,
was severed from 15104.

15104 itself was only altered
due to Scott's decision.

Originally posted by Mr Master
15104 was not severed,
it's Future was.

So the Future of 15104,
was severed from 15104.

15104 itself was only altered
due to Scott's decision.

So if the alternate future of 15104 was seperated from 15104, wouldn't Jean have altered 15104's past instead of 616's?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
And... is this canon?

In 1602,
it was Captain America that created that entire Universe inadvertantly
by landing in that time period.

In "Here Comes Tomorrow"
Scott (in 616) decides to leave the X-Men and Emma,
and this creates Reality 15104 out of nowhere.

Jean goes back to that point in 616 before Scott made that decision,
she changes his mind to instead stay with the X-Men and Emma,
all of a sudden,
Reality 15104 is altered.

Originally posted by Mr Master
100%

But, you disagree with this canon... why?

🙂

Originally posted by King Kandy

So if the alternate future of 15104 was seperated from 15104,
wouldn't Jean have altered 15104's past instead of 616's?

That's why this is a paradox,
cause let's say I'm in the year 5000,
and I want to change something withIN it,
why must I go back 3000 years into 616 to affect it?
One should be able to affect it from the year 4000 or 3000 right? Makes sense.
But since all these Futures at some point (on panel and/or off) diverged from 616,
one is obligated to touch 616 in order to alter it.

That's how I understand it from my research.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
All I read.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
But, you disagree with this canon... why?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I been noticing alot of cats doing that, which leads to circles later. 🙂

?

Well, you said you can't accept it...

🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
But since all these Futures at some point (on panel and/or off) diverged from 616,

Originally posted by Mr Master
I been noticing alot of cats doing that, which leads to circles later. 🙂