Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
the foolish and Insane anakin would be toyed with by the superior intelligence and force power of Revan. in lightsaber combat, it would be very easy for revan to make anakin very pissed off and make the same mistakes he did on mustafar.Making "In the Zone Anakin" make a mistake or overestimate himself is probably one of the easiest ways to beat him.
NO there is no possible way for Revan to put in Anakin in the state he was on Mustafar. That took years of events to make Anakin act the way he did. Just because Revan is smart doesn't equate to victory against Anakin in the zone. Here is some quotes from the duel
The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-Skywalker was getting stronger...........
And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will: walls that were hardened by some uncontrollable dread.
Anakin was holding back and still winning.
A starburst of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too.
It is that simple, and that complex.
And it is final.
Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail.
The play is still on; the comedy of lightsabers flashes and snaps and hisses. Dooku & Skywalker, a one-time-only command performance, for an audience of one. Jedi and Sith and Sith and Jedi, spinning, whirling, crashing together, slashing and chopping, parrying, binding, slipping and whipping and ripping the air around them with snarls of power.
And all for nothing, because a nuclear flame has consumed Anakin Skywalker's Jedi restraint, and fear becomes fury without effort, and fury is a blade that makes his lightsaber into a toy.
The play goes on, but the suspense is over. It has become mere pantomime, as intricate and as meaningless as the space-time curves that guide galactic clusters through a measureless cosmos.
Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste-the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains hung upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.
Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke..........
His head has been filled with the smoke from his smothered heart for far too long; it has been the thunder that darkens his mind. On Aargonar, on Jabiim, in the Tusken camp on Tatooine, that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter; but here now, within this ship, this microscopic cell of life in the infinite sterile desert of space, his firewalls have opened so that the terror and the rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
So he does.
He decides to win.
He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade.
He reaches out and the Force catches it for him.
And then Anakin takes Dooku's other hand as well.
Dooku crumples to his knees, face blank, mouth slack, and his weapon whirs through the air to the victor's hand, and Anakin finds his vision of the future happening before his eyes: two blades at Count Dooku's throat.
But here, now, the truth belies the dream. Both lightsabers are in his hands, and the one in his hand of flesh flares with the synthetic bloodshine of a Sith blade.
Revan loses in a saber contest
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
the easiest ways to beat him.Seriously, if you say that Revan sux at lightsabers, or wasnt a great duelist, you have to realize the error in this. he would at least be able to hold anakin off and use Dun Moch and basic trickery to make him make mistakes. Anakin "in the zone" is just a pissed off whiny teenager with prodigious skills.
NO ONE SAID REVAN IS BAD and who are you say Revan uses Dun Moch as part of his saber style there is ZERO evidence to support this.
Revan could even kill him by chopping off his legs and dropping the mind bomb. yes, bane got it from a holocron of revan so dont contradict me there. revan invented the thing. then revan could fly away.
WRONG, first of all its called the thought bomb. Second of all it is a RITUAL so the minute Revan would try this he would die since he would have no defense while praying the SUICIDAL technique.
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
NO there is no possible way for Revan to put in Anakin in the state he was on Mustafar. That took years of events to make Anakin act the way he did. Just because Revan is smart doesn't equate to victory. Anakin in the zone. Here is some quotes from the duel
.... arent we talking about anakin at the climax of his power? this would be in the zone anakin in the state he was at mustafar.... after years of events making anakin "act the way he did" if anakin is powerful enough to beat revan, then he would have to be in the state he was by the time he got to mustafar. Revan would manipulate this state into the death of anakin. hes not fighting nice little pure-hearted level 1 noob on mustafar anakin. hes fighting Powerful, rash, insane, and illogical mustafar anakin. this is the only state in which anakin would pose a challenge to him...
thus your point that anakin took years to get to the point of betraying all of the jedis is down the crapper because, before then, he couldnt stand up to a sneeze from revan.
just because someone has not written an "epic book" about revan hitting with teh power of meteors doesnt mean he doesnt. revan woud do at least twice as well and twice as fast aginst duku... revan was the top notch at the top of the pack. I believe the only people that he couldnt kill would be yoda and sideous, and they would have an EXTREMELY hard time with him.
Originally posted by Elite Hunter
NO ONE SAID REVAN IS BAD and who are you say Revan uses Dun Moch as part of his saber style there is ZERO evidence to support this.WRONG, first of all its called the thought bomb. Second of all it is a RITUAL so the minute Revan would try this he would die since he would have no defense while praying the SUICIDAL technique.
cutscene. fight on bastilla and malak. he uses talking them down or up or whichever way he wants to influence them. alot of talking happens. I dont know if this is the same as don moch but i am sure that revan was skilled in the power of reasoning that it would take to practice don moch. and it was said that revan would lose in a lightsaber battle vs anakin and mace.
fine. if it was too hard, revan would just commit suicide and blow anakin to little angry teenager hell.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
.... arent we talking about anakin at the climax of his power? this would be in the zone anakin in the state he was at mustafar....
Anakin in the zone=his duel vs count dooku
making anakin "act the way he did" if anakin is powerful enough to beat revan, then he would have to be in the state he was by the time he got to mustafar. Revan would manipulate this state into the death of anakin. hes not fighting nice little pure-hearted level 1 noob on mustafar anakin. hes fighting Powerful, rash, insane, and illogical mustafar anakin. this is the only state in which anakin would pose a challenge to him...
The state of mind anakin was at on mustafar did take years of training with a man that was a brother to him. He was enraged at whatthe love of his wife supposedly did by bringing ob1. The thread does not state that is Anakin from the mustafar duel in fact it does not say which anakin this is from episode 3 but logically we go with the most powerful incarnation of each character if nothing is mentioned. There would be no manipulation here.
just because someone has not written an "epic book" about revan hitting with teh power of meteors doesnt mean he doesnt. revan woud do at least twice as well and twice as fast aginst duku... revan was the top notch at the top of the pack. I believe the only people that he couldnt kill would be yoda and sideous, and they would have an EXTREMELY hard time with him.
This is my favorite part of your entire "argument" complaining about the canon sources does not prove a point nor does it make the statement non-cannon so it stands. Dooku had many more years of experience and most likely more than Revan and Anakin combined at this point. And being faster than dooku doesn't mean he will be as fast as Anakin. Furthermore speed doesn't automatically equate to a victory.
cutscene. fight on bastilla and malak. he uses talking them down or up or whichever way he wants to influence them. alot of talking happens. I dont know if this is the same as don moch but i am sure that revan was skilled in the power of reasoning that it would take to practice don moch. and it was said that revan would lose in a lightsaber battle vs anakin and mace.
fine. if it was too hard, revan would just commit suicide and blow anakin to little angry teenager hell.
You obviously have no clue what the thought bomb is since it takes time to prepare and there is zero time in one on one combat. SO you fail yet again.
I didnt say that that cannon source didnt make a point. I said that it didnt make a dramatic pulp fiction comparison to the power of revan. i read that bane sent the thought bomb to the jedi and they activated it, blowing themselves to stupidland. I highly doubt duku had more experience than revan.
IF it does not say anything about which anakin we are talking about, I predict that revan would totally draw and quarter poor little episode 1 anakin. sorry about your argument that he would win.
anakin in the zone was evil and rash and illogical. I didnt say that he would kill him like on mustafar, he would however be able to make anakin make a mistake if we are talking about in the zone anakin.
if we are talking about episode II anakin, revan would win, hands down.
Since we are talking about two different erras, it really sucks that you think that there can be a "cannon" source of information that can really tie them together and say what they can do. the rots novel doesnt say anything about revan. defeating duku was a feat but I doubt that revan couldnt do it. Revan had been trained by jedi twice, and had taken over the galaxy twice. I dont see where this isnt as much experience as count duku.
also it is undoubtable that revan was a genius, and probably would have been able to manipulate anakins emotions.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
I didnt say that that cannon source didnt make a point. I said that it didnt make a dramatic pulp fiction comparison to the power of revan. i read that bane sent the thought bomb to the jedi and they activated it, blowing themselves to stupidland. I highly doubt duku had more experience than revan.
Wow just wow. Bane gave the thought bomb to lord Kaan and he used to kill himself,the remaining brotherhood and the jedi who went into the cave to finish them. Dooku does have more experience Revan or Anakin. Even by reading his wookieepedia profile a 3 year old could figure out he has had more experience and time to perfect his talents.
IF it does not say anything about which anakin we are talking about, I predict that revan would totally draw and quarter poor little episode 1 anakin. sorry about your argument that he would win.
And IF it doesn't say which form it is it is only LOGICAL to say it is him at his peak because when both opponents are their peak allows for a better battle.
Since we are talking about two different erras, it really sucks that you think that there can be a "cannon" source of information that can really tie them together and say what they can do. the rots novel doesnt say anything about revan. defeating duku was a feat but I doubt that revan couldnt do it. Revan had been trained by jedi twice, and had taken over the galaxy twice. I dont see where this isnt as much experience as count duku.Revan NEVER took obver the galaxy even once. So you fail in your knowledge of kotor. And you compare 2 characters of different eras by comparing A)their known feats. B)Quotes about them whether they are from narrators or third party characters. C) any other piece of relevant information such as fighting style.
Allankles no other character in star war has ever done a feat close to ripping a relatively unknown species language out of their minds and shoving in galactic basic into an entire species!
you make a bold bost for revan in this forum where now you shun revan and cause him to get his butt kicked by someone who didnt to as many significant tasks. I am frustrated with your faulty arguing and lack of common sence...
think about it. if we arent talking about In the zone anakin, who are we talking about? all the other anakins are not powerful enough to even take out a minor sith lord like duku, much less a major, more powerful sith like revan. In the zone Anakin is the only one who would pose a challenge, and would have a very hard fight against revan, but eventually revans superior intelligence would find the weakness, and then turn it against him,
Heck why wouldnt revan even do a little research before he attacked anakin? he could know that the weakness is padme with his intelligence before he even fought him.
Brains over brawn and skill, dude.
he took over the galaxy twice. malak turned on him the first time and the second time he was on the lightside so he helped the republic to take over the sith and kill the threat.... but if your on the darkside, you see his potential in which he takes over the galaxy a second time.
Did you play the game?
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Allankles no other character in star war has ever done a feat close to ripping a relatively unknown species language out of their minds and shoving in galactic basic into an entire species!
That is right no other character has done a similar feat close to this. O do remember saying this and this was in an
you make a bold bost for revan in this forum where now you shun revan and cause him to get his butt kicked by someone who didnt to as many significant tasks. I am frustrated with your faulty arguing and lack of common sence...
This was in a different situation and i can't even remember my whole point I was trying to make. And my knowledge overall back then is nothing compared to it now.
I never said Anakin was as good as force user as Revan because he clearly is not. But once locked in a saber duel Anakin has a very good chance of winning and Revan would be in trouble if he can't get some distance between them.
think about it. if we arent talking about In the zone anakin, who are we talking about? all the other anakins are not powerful enough to even take out a minor sith lord like duku, much less a major, more powerful sith like revan. In the zone Anakin is the only one who would pose a challenge, and would have a very hard fight against revan, but eventually revans superior intelligence would find the weakness, and then turn it against him,
Anakin in the zone is vs dooku and please tell me how Dooku is a minor sith lord there are not many sith lords who can defeat him in saber duels and dare i say Revan(based on the known details of his dueks) aint one of them yet. It is one thing to spot a weakness and another to exploit it. Furthermore it is hard to find a weakness in a duel especially without shatterpoint.
Heck why wouldnt revan even do a little research before he attacked anakin? he could know that the weakness is padme with his intelligence before he even fought him.
Wow just wow. First of all there is none of this research crap before a vs duel unless stated otherwise. Second of all Revan is not Ob1 so he can't exploit it the same way ob1 did. And who's to say Anakin can't do the same to Revan with Bastilla or some other type of weakness.
Brains over brawn and skill, dude.
he took over the galaxy twice. malak turned on him the first time and the second time he was on the lightside so he helped the republic to take over the sith and kill the threat.... but if your on the darkside, you see his potential in which he takes over the galaxy a second time.
WRONG, he came close to doing it with Malak but failed. Heck if even mentions in the game that sith empire did not attack the core world yet and this was after Revan's defeats during the quest for the star forge and so they would have more ships and didn't have control of the galaxy. And no Revan SAVED the galaxy not take it over. He saved the republic and that doesn't mean take it over. And for the millionth time the darkside version is not canon. So nothing that happens unless it happens the same exact way on the lightsided version matters. So in the end Revan tried to take over the galaxy once and didn't.
Did you play the game?
I should ask you this. I haven't played it in months and i still know more about it than you.
dude I havent played it in a year.
secondly. your whole obsession for the newer people continues. Dooku was not nearly as powerful as malak when revan killed him. why? dooku was not in a superweapon like the star forge. he did not have the souls of jedi to feed off of, he was not as skilled. If you look at malak during gameplay, he uses far more fancy moves, and has acomplished way more in way less time. Revan still kills him. THIS IS CANNON and you cant argue against the fact that malak had the superweapon and was a skilled dueler and had loads of power when he was killed by revan. if you compare them in their states (malak in the star forge to duku in the Invisible hand) you will find Malak way more powerful at the point of time in which he was killed. sorry about blowing a hole in the theory that dooku would beat revan.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
dude I havent played it in a year.
And that obviously shows
secondly. your whole obsession for the newer people continues.
I have said in the past that I am big fans of Exar Kun,Ragnos,Revan, and Bane but I don't let my personal preferences get in the way of my arguments.
Dooku was not nearly as powerful as malak when revan killed him. why? dooku was not in a superweapon like the star forge. he did not have the souls of jedi to feed off of, he was not as skilled. If you look at malak during gameplay, he uses far more fancy moves, and has acomplished way more in way less time.
Revan still kills him. THIS IS CANNON and you cant argue against the fact that malak had the superweapon and was a skilled dueler and had loads of power when he was killed by revan.Nope but I can argue what happened in the duel. Since we don't know what happened in the duel I could say that Malak was winning the majority of it. All we know is that they crossed blades at least once and Malak died (based on Qel droma's vision.)
if you compare them in their states (malak in the star forge to duku in the Invisible hand) you will find Malak way more powerful at the point of time in which he was killed. sorry about blowing a hole in the theory that dooku would beat revan.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
the following is not cannon, it is a possibility and in no way reflects any material.Pluss if the ancient sith say palps was the most powerful sith ever to live, who knows if he was Battle Meditating for anakin as he knew that anakin was going to be his next apprentice.
I give you props for the theory I really do however this would have been stated in the ROTS novel in one form or another. Put since it is not mentioned once so it doesn't hold any water. So I don't really see the point in bringing this up.
also, we can defenitely tell that palpatine was rooting for anakin and was back seat driving. the inferiorated "get--" during the fight certainly shows this when dooku turns around and kicks obi wan's butt.
He tells Anakin to kill him but the novel makes it clear that Anakin was "in the zone" mindset before hand. So he all he really did was tell him to kill Dooku nothing more in the end of things.
Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
i think u mistook what I meantduku was cleaning anakins clock and obi wan was coming up behind him. palps said "get--" and duku turned around and incapacitated obi wan.
You also have to remember the 2 v 1 can also be a disadvantage vs a skilled duelist such as Dooku. It is also worth pointing out that Dooku even admitted Anakin was holding back yet still winning.
truly, if duku was on malaks territory fighting him in the star forge with sabers, he would die.
Who would die Dooku?
since there are few comments about revans power with the saber, i kind of doubt that anybody knows what tehy are talking about when they say "saber only" anakin wins.
We know that Anakin rivals Mace,Yoda and Sidious and see my Anakin vs dooku quotes from the last page for more reasons why Anakin is above Revan.
For christ's sake, Knightfall, I never said Revan sucks or anything of the sort, the only thing I said was that he would not be able to defeat someone like Anakin. Hell, I didn't even say it wouldn't be close. Revan is one of the greatest duelists ever, definitely on the 'top 10', but I will say it again: Revan is not a better duelist than Anakin. You just can't admit that.