Yes. Revan had all of the ancient sith artifacts and treasures. Dooku had a few of Sidious' teachings. Your argument of quantity>quality is defeated.
This is unsupported, for one we know that there are plenty of Sith holocrons in the Korriban academy in Kotor 1. We also know that Kreia and the Sith triumvirate as a whole studied at Malachor for just over half a decade. All we know is that Revan plundered Korriban and Malachor acquired a treasure trove of artifacts and must have learned from a good number of these.
We know as much about Revan's overall knowledge as we do about Dooku's. The difference is Dooku had 80 years of study under his belt .
Doesn't matter. Revan's skill in the force was unmatched during his time, and the techniques he learned were enough to give Bane a woodie. Dooku doesn't compare..
Even this is unsupported, apart from beating Malak - who himself wasn't all that impressive - what leads you to believe he was the most skilled?
Duh.. Just like Yoda's 800 years weren't nearly enough against Palpatine's 60 years..
Where's the proof? Revan's knowledge is pure speculation unsupported by any kind of evidence outside of Bane being apparently awed by his knowledge of Sith rituals. How can we determine what would awe a relative initiate like Bane, especially during an era where it seemed Sith knowledge was at an all time low?
Except you're not an authority on how long it would take Revan to learn something.
I didn't say that I was. We've seen Dooku's power on display against powerful opponents, we haven't seen Revan's. So how do you know how Revan's power would affect a Jedi the caliber of Dooku?
Logic dictates that with Dooku's skill with the force coupled with his undoubted power, this fight boils down to sabers where Dooku prevails.
This is unsupported, for one we know that there are plenty of Sith holocrons in the Korriban academy in Kotor 1. We also know that Kreia and the Sith triumvirate as a whole studied at Malachor for just over half a decade. All we know is that Revan plundered Korriban and Malachor acquired a treasure trove of artifacts and must have learned from a good number of these.
We know as much about Revan's overall knowledge as we do about Dooku's. The difference is Dooku had 80 years of study under his belt .
Even this is unsupported, apart from beating Malak - who himself wasn't all that impressive - what leads you to believe he was the most skilled?
Where's the proof? Revan's knowledge is pure speculation unsupported by any kind of evidence outside of Bane being apparently awed by his knowledge of Sith rituals. How can we determine what would awe a relative initiate like Bane, especially during an era where it seemed Sith knowledge was at an all time low?
I didn't say that I was. We've seen Dooku's power on display against powerful opponents, we haven't seen Revan's. So how do you know how Revan's power would affect a Jedi the caliber of Dooku?
Logic dictates that with Dooku's skill with the force coupled with his undoubted power, this fight boils down to sabers where Dooku prevails. [/B]
Actually it was revan and his predecessors whom were scared to perform certain techniques, this ALONE indicates you have yet to actually read POD or already read it just that you have poor reading skills.
or
Considering Revan's knowledge was more useful than anything on Korriban according to Bane, considering Bane could barely wrap his mind around the techniques Revan taught him, you have no point.
Choose.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Dooku would certainly lose to Revan in all aspects. After all, his greatest feat is merely standing up to Yoda.
How can you say "merely standing up to Yoda", as though this accomplishment is nothing worthy? Yoda is the most powerful Jedi ever up to that point, and stalemated Darth friggin' Sidious. Therefore the feet is hugely substantial, considering only 2, maybe 3, other people in the era could do the same.
Also, Revan actually knew how to win a war instead of simply relying on a Psycho.
A Psycho who - in case you missed Episode 3,4,5 and 6 - did win the war.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
He plundered Korriban before the other sith, he plundered the underground cities of Malachor V. Furthermore, Revan was constantly searching for more force knowledge so it stands that Revan learned all that he could from all of his sources. Not to mention, in his little 1 year tenure as a sith lord, he learned how to create holocrons, but yes lets call it unsupportive assumptions. Riiight..
I think I already said that. But we see in Kotor 1 and 2 evidence that there was plenty of information in both Korriban and Malachor, information that allowed people like Kreia to drain the force out of three experienced Jedi, hide her force presence in the middle of powerful Jedi etc etc Learning how to create holocrons is proof of nothing?
It doesn't quantify Revan's knowledge anymore than Dooku's knowledge has been quantified. You want to make assumptions about Revan's knowledge, be my guest, just don't try to force it down our throats.
Dooku's knowledge was exemplified by skill and poise born of 80 years of experience.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
SO what.. Absence of proof isn't proof of Absence. Considering Dooku didn't have nearly the resources Revan possessed, your point is moot. There is nothing indicating Dooku's equality with Revan in the force.. Nothing..
He had the Jedi archives (which we know contained Sith artifacts accessible to Jedi Masters), he had Palpatine who we know collected a great number of Sith artifacts himself. What piece of empirical evidence do you have to say Revan had more resources?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Nobody cares what you think. Revan and Malak were #1 and #2 in the old republic. Revan was #1. There was nobody better.
I'm talking about skill, I don't care about power (Malak wasn't even second and Nihilus appeared more powerful than both). I'm asking how do you know he was the most skilled?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Considering Revan's knowledge was more useful than anything on Korriban according to Bane, considering Bane could barely wrap his mind around the techniques Revan taught him, you have no point..
You missed the entire point. Bane was not some Sith scholar being awed by great information, he was an initiate, in an era where dark side knowledge was not as abundant as in previous eras.
The point is, if you're trying to make Revan's knowledge seem genuinely vast, Bane is the wrong character to be using to describe the vastness of that knowledge, only because he's an initiate (more or less) and his era seems to be lacking, in dark side knowledge relative to other eras.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Because nothing suggests Dooku was even in Revan's league in terms of force mastery. Nobody cares if he studied for 80 years. Sidious studied for less and would pwn Dooku. Kun studied for under 3 as a sith, and would pwn DOoku.
There's no doubt Revan achieved some degree of force mastery but what makes you believe it was even on the level of Dooku's? What has Revan done with the force that Dooku couldn't replicate? Don't mention FS on some Rakata.
Dooku was holding his own against Yoda, after defeating Anakin and Obi Wan in AOTC. We later see him overwhelm Obi Wan with TK in the middle of a fight in ROTS, I mean that kind of display is uncommon, especially against a tough opponent like that.
You honestly believe Revan even holds his own against Anakin and Obi Wan without losing? Malak was Revan's rival. The likes of Dooku, Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda are a different kettle of fish.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Logic dictates that you've been spouting your anti Revan bias for a long time now, without any positive effects.
Now, no need to get testy. I'm looking for evidence that Revan beats Dooku in a one on one fight, and I can't find any.
No force feats, no definitive combat feats for us to gauge his level compared to Dooku. I have huge doubts that Revan's FP would scare or overwhelm Dooku, seeing as he had the capacity to hold is own against Yoda.
It doesn't quantify Revan's knowledge anymore than Dooku's knowledge has been quantified. You want to make assumptions about Revan's knowledge, be my guest, just don't try to force it down our throats.
Dooku's knowledge was exemplified by skill and poise born of 80 years of experience.
He had the Jedi archives (which we know contained Sith artifacts accessible to Jedi Masters), he had Palpatine who we know collected a great number of Sith artifacts himself. What piece of empirical evidence do you have to say Revan had more resources?
I'm talking about skill, I don't care about power (Malak wasn't even second and Nihilus appeared more powerful than both). I'm asking how do you know he was the most skilled?
You missed the entire point. Bane was not some Sith scholar being awed by great information, he was an initiate, in an era where dark side knowledge was not as abundant as in previous eras.
The point is, if you're trying to make Revan's knowledge seem genuinely vast, Bane is the wrong character to be using to describe the vastness of that knowledge, only because he's an initiate (more or less) and his era seems to be lacking, in dark side knowledge relative to other eras.
There's no doubt Revan achieved some degree of force mastery but what makes you believe it was even on the level of Dooku's? What has Revan done with the force that Dooku couldn't replicate? Don't mention FS on some Rakata.
Dooku was holding his own against Yoda, after defeating Anakin and Obi Wan in AOTC. We later see him overwhelm Obi Wan with TK in the middle of a fight in ROTS, I mean that kind of display is uncommon, especially against a tough opponent like that.
Y[quote\ou honestly believe Revan even holds his own against Anakin and Obi Wan without losing? Malak was Revan's rival. The likes of Dooku, Anakin, Obi Wan, Yoda are a different kettle of fish. [/quote]
In the force, only Yoda is more powerful than Revan at this point, (besides Sidious). In saber combat, he was #1 but his saber skills are relatively unknown so I wouldn't say he defeats Dooku here.
Now, no need to get testy. I'm looking for evidence that Revan beats Dooku in a one on one fight, and I can't find any.
I'm talking about skill, I don't care about power (Malak wasn't even second and Nihilus appeared more powerful than both). I'm asking how do you know he was the most skilled?
Well, using the Star Forge would probably require some skill. It needs a powerfull force-user to work and creates ships out of the raw elements of a sun. Thats...... tough to say the least.
Theres nothing to even surgest that Dooku had extensive Force knowledge. He only ever uses TK and lightning. When Dooku knows techniques that can destroy whole worlds then I might start to respect him, but not before.
Originally posted by Darth ExodusYour constant stupidity surpasses most of the shit i had seen.Theres nothing to even surgest that Dooku had extensive Force knowledge. He only ever uses TK and lightning. When Dooku knows techniques that can destroy whole worlds then I might start to respect him, but not before.
I guess it does not occur to you that dooku had 80 years of force knowledge aka access to the entire jedi archives and the fact that he has been stated to be one of the most powerful jedi ever and an even greater sith lord.
You seem to forget the fact that he himself studied under the most powerful sith lord ever for 13 years which would mean he had plenty of dark side knowledge.
You too seem to forget that he could fight yoda toe to toe whom was stated to be the most powerful jedi up until that time.
Originally posted by Ivalice
Your constant stupidity surpasses most of the shit i had seen.I guess it does not occur to you that dooku had 80 years of force knowledge aka access to the entire jedi archives and the fact that he has been stated to be one of the most powerful jedi ever and an even greater sith lord.
You seem to forget the fact that he himself studied under the most powerful sith lord ever for 13 years which would mean he had plenty of dark side knowledge.
You too seem to forget that he could fight yoda toe to toe whom was stated to be the most powerful jedi up until that time.
You seem to forget that even in his young age, Revan's force mastery surpasses Dooku's. Exar Kun was in his mid 20s and he surpassed Dooku. Dooku could have 800 years of studying and it wouldn't be enough to defeat someone like Sidious because there are more powerful force users than him. He studied under Sidious but Sidious would HARDLY give him everything he knew, especially when he knew Dooku would be replaced.
Wasn't most of the sith knowledge that revan studied and learned destroyed at malachor IV. If sion, traya, and nihilus all learned their force drains from the limited (compared to what it was before) stores of knowledge at the academy, how much more powerfull and vast would the rest of the stores on Malachor IV be?
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You seem to forget that even in his young age, Revan's force mastery surpasses Dooku's. Exar Kun was in his mid 20s and he surpassed Dooku. Dooku could have 800 years of studying and it wouldn't be enough to defeat someone like Sidious because there are more powerful force users than him. He studied under Sidious but Sidious would HARDLY give him everything he knew, especially when he knew Dooku would be replaced.
Dooku was replaced by the chosen one himself, I don't see how that's much of a knock on Dooku. If he was replaced by Quinlan Vos (great character) then I might see your point. The point is with Revan the numbers don't add up, the evidence is non - existant, so it all boils down to assumptions.
If Dooku wasn't unfortunate to have been in the same era as the chosen one, and force giants like Yoda and Sidious, he would be the top force user in that era.
Dooku's power and skill was exemplified quite clearly throughout the clone wars. Revan? There just isn't any evidence he would even be able to replicate what Dooku did, given the same circumstance or opponents.
Malak wasn't even second in the whole era (certainly he was from the perspective of Kotor 1 and with the likes of Bastila, Uthar and Bandon as peers you'd expect that) but in the persons of Traya and Nihilus we see more impressive Sith Lords.
Dooku's power has been demonstrated to us, Revan's has not (at least not near enough the same degree for us to assume he automatically takes Dooku).
I would expect it to be close, but Dooku beats him all-out via sabers.
I guess it does not occur to you that dooku had 80 years of force knowledge aka access to the entire jedi archives and the fact that he has been stated to be one of the most powerful jedi ever and an even greater sith lord.
All of which gave him shit in his duels. If you can't produce any evidence of him doing anything special with the force (destroying planets, mind-raping billions etc) then you have no argument.
You seem to forget the fact that he himself studied under the most powerful sith lord ever for 13 years which would mean he had plenty of dark side knowledge.
And you seem to forget that Dooku was never the real apprentice.
Plus Vader studied under Sidious for 19 years and he never does any feats of skill except for Force crush and he did that instinctively. TK does not count as skill, but as power
If Dooku wasn't unfortunate to have been in the same era as the chosen one, and force giants like Yoda and Sidious, he would be the top force user in that era.
Dooku was powerful and might be in the top 20 Jedi/Sith.
Revan, on the other hand, is in the top 10. Easily.
but in the persons of Traya and Nihilus we see more impressive Sith Lords.
Revan surpassed Traya
Dooku's power and skill was exemplified quite clearly throughout the clone wars. Revan? There just isn't any evidence he would even be able to replicate what Dooku did, given the same circumstance or opponents.
What a funny joke!!!!😆 But allow me too spell it out for anyone who didn't get it. It's funny becuase it is so ridiculous. Revan would have easily won the clone wars and would have had the sense to dispose of Sidious early ( by tipping off the jedi across the street).
You cad!! You poor comedian!!! 😉
Originally posted by Allankles
[B]Dooku was replaced by the chosen one himself, I don't see how that's much of a knock on Dooku. If he was replaced by Quinlan Vos (great character) then I might see your point. The point is with Revan the numbers don't add up, the evidence is non - existant, so it all boils down to assumptions.
If Dooku wasn't unfortunate to have been in the same era as the chosen one, and force giants like Yoda and Sidious, he would be the top force user in that era.
Dooku's power and skill was exemplified quite clearly throughout the clone wars. Revan? There just isn't any evidence he would even be able to replicate what Dooku did, given the same circumstance or opponents.
Malak wasn't even second in the whole era (certainly he was from the perspective of Kotor 1 and with the likes of Bastila, Uthar and Bandon as peers you'd expect that) but in the persons of Traya and Nihilus we see more impressive Sith Lords.
Dooku's power has been demonstrated to us, Revan's has not (at least not near enough the same degree for us to assume he automatically takes Dooku).
Another thing that might limit Dooku's sith training is the fact that his master is the supreme chancellor of the republic. Sidious doesn't have the same amount of time to train Dooku,who he himself might face a tough time if he is seen with Sidious in secret or even in the general public being that he was in exile. Plus Dooku was busy laying in the ground works for the CIS and the upcoming clone wars.