I suppose that's a definitive difference between you and I...
I don't see putting himself in a position to get the hell out of dodge as a win.
he could cut him, up, take a sledge hammer and repeatedly beat the crap out of him till he passed out, steamroll him again, shoot him in the head bash him with a hammer AND steam roll him. he just left Logan there (along with spidey and DD) and went off on his own. he LET him stay that way.
now unless you think that doesn't count as a win, i'm pretty sure he won 😬
~Sado
Originally posted by jinzin
you're missing the point; Wolverine'shealing factor is ridiculous when it's not being depleted by some outside factor... and unfortunately it is like 60% of his comic career. Hell this goes back to pre-adamantium extraction.The 200 pts thing is to demonstrate how absurd his HF really is when it's been seen at it's full capacity, and since these characters are supposed to fight at that capacity...
You're downplaying what he can take..simple as that.
The point I was simply trying to make is that if he said that his HF hasnt been this bad, we give examples of his HF being bad not to give examples of when his HF was great. For example when DP messed him up in Wolverine 88, thats when his HF was reduced. When he got his adamantuim back his HF had improved. 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
🤨
He had a huge flamin hole where his heart used to be.. you don't think that's impressive..pffbwahaha!Nah, I can't be bothered to actually.
My point was not that it wasnt impressive, heres what I was thinking.
1. He got shot.....AGAIN. Please elaborate on the circumstances.
2. Frank doesnt have weapons that can put a hole through his chest? From what you seem to be telling me is that the weapon stopped him, If Wolverine stops this will give Frank even more opportunities to pile on even more damage.
Originally posted by jinzin
I'm not even talking about the note per-se' I'm talking about the entire arc.... hell he isn't even intelligent enough to get on the right train to new york during that arc...
Even if the arc was out of character, what he did in that specific incident was not. Again Wolverine can allow his temper to get him into trouble its not out of his character.
Originally posted by jinzin
It's not an accurate portrayal of his character but it really doesn't matter since it wasn't a fight.
The thread states that he has 1 hrs prep, that situation involved prep can you see the connection?
Originally posted by jinzin
No I don't....Punisher is hostile, and he has weapons that he prepped himself up for.. and that's where the similarities end.
Wolverine wasn't expecting to be attacked.
Wolverine was distracted by a dead body.
It wasn't in an enclosed environment (i.e. hightened senses).
Wolverine wasnt expecting to be attacked because he got distracted. Punisher set the challenge out they were looking for him, Wolverine put his guard down. So Frank cant use a something else to distract him? Just because its an enclosed envinronment doesnt neccesarily mean a thing. So Wolverine doesnt have heightened senses outside?
Originally posted by jinzin
And to be honest it really isn't even a win as Battlehammer stated he wasn't even KOed. 😐
Well its a TKO. 😐 Furthermore it would have been a KO if Frank decided to hit him with more weapons , for example he could have reduced him down to a skeleton.
Originally posted by jinzin
No you can't unless punisher's strategy involves getting a bunch of cronies...
Or a dead body and note.
Originally posted by jinzin
Even though he did from a plasma blast through his chest? 🙄
Punisher has acess to Plutonuim he can get stuff that can go through Wolverines chest.
Originally posted by jinzin
And here's the thing, Logan's been set aflame and come out on top about... oh I don't know 100% more times than he's lost..The same way he's been able to take class 100 shots far more often than not.
Hes alos been downed by a shot in the leg and a shot in the nuts. So Wolverine wins the majority when there other examples that contradict this?
Originally posted by jinzin
Then you're still wrong, since Logan wasn't even KOed...
He has one win AT BEST
Logan has 2.
Well next time two people fight and one of them ends up on the floor not able to get up. Im going to assume that the one on the floor is the winner.
He wasn't incapacitated. It wasn't a KO, a kill or a BFR.
Frank actually lost according to KMC rules since he left the "arena" before winning by any of those other options.... He BFR'd himself. 😬
Now Frank may or may not have been able to incapacitate Logan from there on, Logan's upper body was still in working order and there weren't any steam rollers around, so who knows.
Originally posted by jinzin
I mean let's face it, Punisher said outright that Winter Soldier would kill him in fight..
Yeah and WS ended up backing down because he didnt want get hes brains blown out. 😐
Originally posted by jinzin
but wolverine wasn't that's the thing... When wolverine has been ready for a hostilities he's snuck into:
The baxter building
The white house
in and out of sheild hellicarriers.
the x-mansion
the brood empire
the x-mansion filled with Shiar guards.
the Harada household.
multiple Korean, Nazi, and spy organizations during wartime.I just don't see the rocket launcher incident as a win. The variables were different in MAJOR ways compared to this scenario.
You see heres the problem. Whenever we give and examples of Wolverine losing you give an example of Wolverine not losing. That doesnt mean he wins the majority! If anything that proves it 5/5 split. I mean hell Wolverines been:
Humiliated by Molly Hayes.
Humiliated by MK who according to you is a third tier fighter. MK was fighting other people at the time when Wolverine jumped him.
Hit in the nuts with a baseball bat by Punisher and all most get set on fire. Punsiher was standing up and Wolverine was one the floor and thats not a win?
Im sure there are other examples as well.
Originally posted by jinzin
He wasn't incapacitated. It wasn't a KO, a kill or a BFR.Frank actually lost according to KMC rules since he left the "arena" before winning by any of those other options.... He BFR'd himself. 😬
Now Frank may or may not have been able to incapacitate Logan from there on, Logan's upper body was still in working order and there weren't any steam rollers around, so who knows.
It may not be a win by KMC standards but its still a win. What that shows us is that Frank can get Wolverine in a comprimising position. Under KMC rules Frank would have hit Wolverine with another rocket launcher puttting him down to a skeleton. 😬
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The point I was simply trying to make is that if he said that his HF hasnt been this bad, we give examples of his HF being bad not to give examples of when his HF was great. For example when DP messed him up in Wolverine 88, thats when his HF was reduced. When he got his adamantuim back his HF had improved. 😬
Thus far his showings indicate he can still take massive damage and heal quite quickly from it.
I mean for god sakes, in the 70's Wolverine's HF had him taking horrible damage, while fighting off a brood infestation, and fighting nonstop for hours...
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
My point was not that it wasnt impressive, heres what I was thinking.1. He got shot.....AGAIN. Please elaborate on the circumstances.
2. Frank doesnt have weapons that can put a hole through his chest? From what you seem to be telling me is that the weapon stopped him, If Wolverine stops this will give Frank even more opportunities to pile on even more damage.
Well if you can see that it's an impressive feat, then you're just arguing over the HF for the sake of giving Frank an advantage you only HOPE that he has. You can't prove shit.
Wolverine was fighting members of the wrecking crew off and this chick blasts him from behind through his chest with a plasma blast. Punisher can't reproduce the same feat unless he's working with the wrecking crew, and they're included in his prepping abilities.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Even if the arc was out of character, what he did in that specific incident was not. Again Wolverine can allow his temper to get him into trouble its not out of his character.
Sure it was out of character.
Punisher's 30 feet away but Wolverine can't smell him?
Both DD and Spidey are smart enough to know what the note implies but Wolverine isn't?
Wolverine doesn't hear the rocket coming?
Hell it was out of character for Spidey and DD even, they just leave Wolvie hanging to take the hit? Spiderman refuses to let Wolverine be in a carwreck for fear of his safety but getting hit by a rocket launcher is okay?
Wolverine's dodged sniper fire from behind based off scent alone.
He's avoided lazer's shot at him from behind... But Punisher's just to much for him right? 🙄
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The thread states that he has 1 hrs prep, that situation involved prep can you see the connection?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wolverine wasnt expecting to be attacked
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneSure he can try. It's just going to be a lot harder when Wolverine knows he's in a fight/hostile environment.
because he got distracted. Punisher set the challenge out they were looking for him, Wolverine put his guard down. So Frank cant use a something else to distract him?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Just because its an enclosed envinronment doesnt neccesarily mean a thing. So Wolverine doesnt have heightened senses outside?
No, however outside there are a lot more scents and sounds. Pinpointing Punisher's position in an enclosed area is going to be easier for Wolverine to do.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well its a TKO. 😐 Furthermore it would have been a KO if Frank decided to hit him with more weapons , for example he could have reduced him down to a skeleton.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Or a dead body and note.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Punisher has acess to Plutonuim he can get stuff that can go through Wolverines chest.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hes alos been downed by a shot in the leg and a shot in the nuts. So Wolverine wins the majority when there other examples that contradict this?
And yet there are FAR FAR FARRRRRRR more examples that contradict Wolverine going down to things as simple as those and you ignore them.
AND, the record doesn't contradict this, Wolverine has 2 wins, Punisher has 1.
you just keep giving Punisher "wins" in circumstantial scenarios that can't even be counted as fights....
it's like when Majin Vegeta KOed Goku.. OMG VEGETA WON! uhhh no...
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well next time two people fight and one of them ends up on the floor not able to get up. Im going to assume that the one on the floor is the winner.
I don't think I said that.. Even though technically Punisher BFR'd himself in that scenario. Point was that fight for fight Logan has more wins than Punisher.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah and WS ended up backing down because he didnt want get hes brains blown out. 😐
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
You see heres the problem. Whenever we give and examples of Wolverine losing you give an example of Wolverine not losing. That doesnt mean he wins the majority! If anything that proves it 5/5 split. I mean hell Wolverines been:
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Humiliated by Molly Hayes.
Humiliated by MK who according to you is a third tier fighter. MK was fighting other people at the time when Wolverine jumped him.
Hit in the nuts with a baseball bat by Punisher and all most get set on fire. Punsiher was standing up and Wolverine was one the floor and thats not a win?
Im sure there are other examples as well.
As for MK "humiliating" Logan.. he judo threw him.. that's not really a fight or a win or anything for that matter. 😬
I don't really see what you're getting at here though.. if your back on your shpiel that Wolverine isn't top tier then you're out of your mind...
Without use of a real-working healing factor Wolverine's outfought:
Cap,
Winter Soldier,
Ogun,
and
Deadpool
That right there is enough to speak for itself.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It may not be a win by KMC standards
Well next time two people fight and one of them ends up on the floor not able to get up. Im going to assume that the one on the floor is the winner.
He wasn't incapacitated. It wasn't a KO, a kill or a BFR.
Frank actually lost according to KMC rules since he left the "arena" before winning by any of those other options.... He BFR'd himself.
Now Frank may or may not have been able to incapacitate Logan from there on, Logan's upper body was still in working order and there weren't any steam rollers around, so who knows.
Punisher's 30 feet away but Wolverine can't smell him?
Both DD and Spidey are smart enough to know what the note implies but Wolverine isn't? Wolverine doesn't hear the rocket coming?
and he didn't hear the rocket coming for the same reasons he didn't hear the gunshots coming in the issue where Frank shot him. he was distracted. makes all the sense in the world.
Hell it was out of character for Spidey and DD even, they just leave Wolvie hanging to take the hit? Spiderman refuses to let Wolverine be in a carwreck for fear of his safety but getting hit by a rocket launcher is okay?
Wolverine's dodged sniper fire from behind based off scent alone.
But Punisher's just to much for him right?
also Frank challenged the 3 stoogies. they came there. if logan got distracted that's his goddamn fault. and finally, frank has floored him on two occassions. Frank wasn't KO'd by logan in either of the cases you mentioned, so i'm guessing that doesnt count as a win either then, right?
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22
because Frank left him there. why aren't you getting it? frank left them all after beating them.
look, logan was there lying practically incinerated waist below. there are all those things Frnak could have done to him if he wanted to. he just let him there. the same way he let DD there. Frank won. deal with it.
Now I'm not the one who keeps calling it a fight though.
Can you or can you not see how that scenario and the one here differ? And if you can do you not concede that those differences can make all the difference in a battle?
Furthermore are you still under the impression that an Ennis written Wolverine is definitive of his character.
Originally posted by Sado22
all he really needed to do was smash his head repeatedly with a rock, shoot him with more rocket launchers, bash his head open with the butt of his rifle. plenty of things he could have done............unless you think the only way logan can be KO'd is by being roadrollered. which obviously isn't the case.
It's not a fact he had more rockets. He wouldn't want to go h2h even with just a torso of Wolverine.
It wasn't a fight to be won... period.
Originally posted by Sado22
that had nothing to do with intelligence.
-one, logan was too busy having his nostrils filled with the smell of the corpse.
Originally posted by Sado22
-two, LOGAN was the one reading the letter and thus more preoccupied (and then there is the smelll again)
Originally posted by Sado22
-three, Spidey and DD know Frank and have come across him more than Logan has. logan has only come across frank around 5 times. makes sense that he didn't know what was coming. nad don't even tell me that he's smarter than Matt Murdoch and Peter Parker. he isn't.
Originally posted by Sado22
and he didn't hear the rocket coming for the same reasons he didn't hear the gunshots coming in the issue where Frank shot him. he was distracted. makes all the sense in the world.
Originally posted by Sado22
how much time did they have? a few split seconds? i'm pretty sure they were conscerened about themselves. and this happened a little after wolverine went berserker and attacked both Spidey and DD in the bar. maybe they held a grudge 🙂
Are you talking about the same DD and Spidey that I've been readin about for the last 20 years?
Cause it sure as hell doesn't sound like it.
Wolverine attacked matt in his own home, no grudge.
Spiderman doesn't even let his most hated enemies get seriously hurt if he can help it..
It was Ennis written agenda driven crap.. that's all there is to it.
Originally posted by Sado22
was there a dead body there? was it open spaced? no. the only time logan dodged a snipe from far away was when he picked up the scent in the wind. not otherwise. and it doesn't explain the several other times where he was sniped, shot, maimed etc.
Ignoring all the other times Logan's dodged bullets and lazers without warning.
Originally posted by Sado22
considering the very few have roadrolled him before, i'd say (in best Steve Austin imiation) "OH HELL YEAH!!!" 🍺
If that's a serious opinion then this is a joke.
Originally posted by Sado22Frank lost actual fights. Wolverine incapacitated Frank to the point that Frank couldn't fight back. big difference. Had frank wondered down to the street where Logan was Logan would have still been going after him just like when Punisher had to resort to using a steamroller.
also Frank challenged the 3 stoogies. they came there. if logan got distracted that's his goddamn fault. and finally, frank has floored him on two occassions. Frank wasn't KO'd by logan in either of the cases you mentioned, so i'm guessing that doesnt count as a win either then, right?~Sado
Again, your interpretation of Wolverine in this fight is based off of some of the most bias filled writing of the character to date, if you refuse to see that then you're being just as bias.
Originally posted by jinzin
And your point doesn't mean a ****in thing since it still needs to be shown what his limit is currently at.Thus far his showings indicate he can still take massive damage and heal quite quickly from it.
I mean for god sakes, in the 70's Wolverine's HF had him taking horrible damage, while fighting off a brood infestation, and fighting nonstop for hours...
The points simple, if were not sure of what his limits are and he says that his HF hasnt been this bad in years, you find examples of where his HF has been considerably worse. You keep giving me examples of where his HF was really good. Illogical. Anyway we'll have to see how his appearances go.
Originally posted by jinzin
Well if you can see that it's an impressive feat, then you're just arguing over the HF for the sake of giving Frank an advantage you only HOPE that he has. You can't prove shit.Wolverine was fighting members of the wrecking crew off and this chick blasts him from behind through his chest with a plasma blast. Punisher can't reproduce the same feat unless he's working with the wrecking crew, and they're included in his prepping abilities.
Thats just tttterrible logic. So in other words he needs to replicate the exact same cirumstances to shot Wolverine.
1. DP using the Wrecking Crew to shot Wolverine.
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverine154page074mq.jpg
2. Frank has shot Spiderman and nailed him to the wall with a knife. Spiderman has faster reflexes than Wolverine.
Originally posted by jinzin
Sure it was out of character.
Punisher's 30 feet away but Wolverine can't smell him?
Both DD and Spidey are smart enough to know what the note implies but Wolverine isn't?
Wolverine doesn't hear the rocket coming?
1. You dont know if it was 30 feet.
2. In the scans with Wolverine detecting snipers he notes the wind helped him detect the snipers, so it could well be argued the wind was not in his favour.
3. You yourself argued his senses are not perfect.
4. He was concentrating on the note and flipping out. He has a tendency when he gets insulted to trip.
Originally posted by jinzin
Hell it was out of character for Spidey and DD even, they just leave Wolvie hanging to take the hit? Spiderman refuses to let Wolverine be in a carwreck for fear of his safety but getting hit by a rocket launcher is okay?
It could damn well be argued that they were getting out of dodge. Wolverine has a HF they dont. Furthermore its not out of character for Wolverine to flip out when he gets insulted. Hell when Wolverine and Guardian went out he had to watch him just in case he attacked somebody.
Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine's dodged sniper fire from behind based off scent alone.
He's avoided lazer's shot at him from behind... But Punisher's just to much for him right? 🙄
Yeah and he couldnt stop himself from being shot by DP who was right in front of him. Considering that Punisher is supposed to be one of the best marksman in marvel we can assume that Frank can do it as well.
Originally posted by jinzin
Pretty sure I've already stated that I did.. 😕
No you dont see the connection because you keep arguing that the situation where he got hit by a missle launcher is different.
Originally posted by jinzin
Exactly.. so it's already unuseable evidence.
Er no you missed the point. He didnt expect to be attacked because he got distracted. Punsiher could have been anywhere, he let his guard down. The same with this example.
Originally posted by jinzin
Sure he can try. It's just going to be a lot harder when Wolverine knows he's in a fight/hostile environment.
Sure like DP had trouble shooting Wolverine.
Originally posted by jinzin
Do your legs ever get tired from jumping so much to these ridiculous conclusions?No, however outside there are a lot more scents and sounds. Pinpointing Punisher's position in an enclosed area is going to be easier for Wolverine to do.
No I get tired of having to explain the obvious. Right so Frank cant disguise his scent because hes indoors?
Originally posted by jinzin
It isn't a win by forum rules. 😐
He could have with what?
Er...another missle launcher. One reduced the lower part of his body to a skeleton another one to the top would have reduced his other half to a skeleton. 😕
Originally posted by jinzin
Which we all know wherehouses are just chalk full of. pffft.
Yeah because he cant shot some thug and get a note. pfft "Oh where oh where am I gonna get a criminal to shoot....paper, where am I gonna get paper from????? Oh and a knife to stab it to the body....oh yeah." Not that I think it would work twice but im just astounded at your logic that if Wolverine gets tricked one way the exact circumstances have to be replicated. Just terrible.
Originally posted by jinzinBut if he hasn't hired the wrecking crew it doesn't matter.
Yeah for example when DP shot Wolverine he had to use the wrecking crew to do it. 🙄
Originally posted by jinzinAnd yet there are FAR FAR FARRRRRRR more examples that contradict Wolverine going down to things as simple as those and you ignore them.
AND, the record doesn't contradict this, Wolverine has 2 wins, Punisher has 1.you just keep giving Punisher "wins" in circumstantial scenarios that can't even be counted as fights....
it's like when Majin Vegeta KOed Goku.. OMG VEGETA WON! uhhh no...
No they dont contradict it thats ABC logic. Wolverine has dodged lasers from behind but still got shot by DP who was standing right in front of him. According to your logic Cap should lose to Spiderman because he cant punch at the speed of light. Spiderman still got punked. Spiderman can dodge lasers all day long but hes still getting pawned by Cap in H2H.
Originally posted by jinzin
I don't think I said that.. Even though technically Punisher BFR'd himself in that scenario. Point was that fight for fight Logan has more wins than Punisher.
I know what your saying but your just not getting it and im getting tired of having to explain.
Originally posted by jinzin
As Soljer already pointed out to you, Punisher pulled a gun on an un-armed man and still got put in a position where he could have died. Winter Soldier wasn't there looking for a fight, that simple.
I couldnt careless what Soljer said. He pulled a gun on an unarmed man so what? So that changes the fact that he lost? The whole point is that Frank is fast enough to pull his gun on top tiers, the fact that he was unarmed is tough. He wasnt looking for a fight, so? He may not have come looking for a fight but it ended with him about to kill him. As far as im concerned it was close range, WS is better trained and has a cybernetic arm, that levels things out, hell when WS fought BW he used his arm to block her widow bites. If they started at long range thats another matter.
Originally posted by jinzin
Not when Wolverine has a winning record.
No he does not. Im not going to go into the defintion of what a fight is and KMC rules I already explained.
Originally posted by jinzin
Well first off we've already said that the pre-midget fight was a win for Pun, so I don't know what you're crying about there...As for MK "humiliating" Logan.. he judo threw him.. that's not really a fight or a win or anything for that matter. 😬
I don't really see what you're getting at here though.. if your back on your shpiel that Wolverine isn't top tier then you're out of your mind...
Without use of a real-working healing factor Wolverine's outfought:
Cap,
Winter Soldier,
Ogun,
and
DeadpoolThat right there is enough to speak for itself.
No it does not speak for itself. For startes without a proper HF he had actually lost to DP.
Hes been shot by DP.
The whole point aboout MK punking Wolverine is the fact that if MK can do that to Wolverine, Frank Castle can shoot him. Frank has shown his equal in H2H to MK on numerous ocassions.
If Molly Haye can punk Wolverine Frank Castle can shoot him. Hell Frank got punked by Molly and he didnt even know she was a mutant, Wolverine did what does that tell you?
Furthermore if Frank can blast him in the face with a shot gun I cant see why hes gonna have a problem shooting him.
Originally posted by jinzin
Exactly.
No its not im not going over it again.
See, I like how you imply I'm the one who isn't getting it when you keep insisting it was a fight to be won. If you want to keep calling it a fight when it wasn't, then I have to burst that bubble, because even though it may be a technicality it's still a fact that going by KMC standards it doesn't count as a win on Frank's record but a loss, he BFR'd himself.
Can you or can you not see how that scenario and the one here differ? And if you can do you not concede that those differences can make all the difference in a battle?
furthermore are you still under the impression that an Ennis written Wolverine is definitive of his character.
all of this is there in ennis. he gets shot by frank. and that's been done before several times. he gets shot by a rocket launcher despite his senses. that's been done before. heck namor blindsided him during the Civil war era and he was a few paces away from him when he did it. i'm getting kinda tired of you and battlehammer trying to act like logain is impossible to surprise. he's not. its been done so many times that its practicaly a joke to imply otherwise. i just gave you the best example of that: namor and logan fighting, wolveirne getting preoccupied with something else and then getting ko'd by namor with a punch. he just walked up to him and punched him...............and all this time logan was standing there like a jackass cuz he was distracted by what some chick wsa telling him. where was his senses then?
and yet, here you're having a problem digesting the fact that he got shot by a rocket launcher which last time i checked tends to come at you faster than a haymaker.
It's not a fact he had more rockets. He wouldn't want to go h2h even with just a torso of Wolverine. It wasn't a fight to be won... period.
And? The man was able to pinpoint terror inc. in a freakin Morgue. He's able to tell the difference between 616 characters and their AOA counterparts. He was able to sniff out the difference between 616 heroes and their clones during the infinity war even though DD couldn't. Ennis written crapola here.
Spiderman and DD were standing there behind his shoulder reading the note with him.
they just had enough sense to know what it meant... But he didn't.... I mean of course he didn't, he's only been part of multiple conspiracy theories, was a military spook for over 100 years, has the stated intelligence of four super computers, and knows 17 different languages but he's a friggin idiot. More Ennis written crap.
He's more cunning and more experienced. Furthermore Logan has come accross frank quite a few more times than that, specifically when they've teamed up, there's no excuse there for Ennis writing. He may not be as book smart as Pete but that's about it.
and here's a thought:
the rocket launcher came the moment logan read "suckers". must be true since at just that moment spidey and DD make a run for it.
Right.. The infamous note is farrrrr too distracting to a guy who can dodge a sniper round from behind shot from a mile away even though he's carrying a 50 cal and in mid conversation.
Are you talking about the same DD and Spidey that I've been readin about for the last 20 years?
Ignoring all the other times Logan's dodged bullets and lazers without warning.
if that's a serious opinion then this is a joke.
Frank lost actual fights. Wolverine incapacitated Frank to the point that Frank couldn't fight back. big difference.
to you the latter isn't a win cuz logan wasn't outcold. well, frank wasn't out either in any of the parts you mentioned.
Had frank wondered down to the street where Logan was Logan would have still been going after him just like when Punisher had to resort to using a steamroller.
Again, your interpretation of Wolverine in this fight is based off of some of the most bias filled writing of the character to date, if you refuse to see that then you're being just as bias.
~Sado
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The points simple, if were not sure of what his limits are and he says that his HF blablabla..good. Illogical. Anyway we'll have to see how his appearances go.
If he says it hasn't been this bad in years then I give you examples of his HF years ago. Which at it's best is still impressive, and which isn't illogical considering he's walking away from holes in his chest and bullets in his head already.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats just tttterrible logic. So in other words he needs to replicate the exact same cirumstances to shot Wolverine.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. DP using the Wrecking Crew to shot Wolverine.
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverine154page074mq.jpg
2. Frank has shot Spiderman and nailed him to the wall with a knife. Spiderman has faster reflexes than Wolverine.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
1. You dont know if it was 30 feet.
2. In the scans with Wolverine detecting snipers he notes the wind helped him detect the snipers, so it could well be argued the wind was not in his favour.
3. You yourself argued his senses are not perfect.
4. He was concentrating on the note and flipping out. He has a tendency when he gets insulted to trip.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It could damn well be argued that they were getting out of dodge. Wolverine has a HF they dont. Furthermore its not out of character for Wolverine to flip out when he gets insulted. Hell when Wolverine and Guardian went out he had to watch him just in case he attacked somebody.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneAlready explained to you.
Yeah and he couldnt stop himself from being shot by DP who was right in front of him. Considering that Punisher is supposed to be one of the best marksman in marvel we can assume that Frank can do it as well.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneIt is...
No you dont see the connection because you keep arguing that the situation where he got hit by a missle launcher is different.
As I said, there's a point where the similarities end, and the differences are big enough to change the outcome of the events.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er no you missed the point. He didnt expect to be attacked because he got distracted. Punsiher could have been anywhere, he let his guard down. The same with this example.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Sure like DP had trouble shooting Wolverine.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No I get tired of having to explain the obvious. Right so Frank cant disguise his scent because hes indoors?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er...another missle launcher. One reduced the lower part of his body to a skeleton another one to the top would have reduced his other half to a skeleton.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah because he cant shot some thug and get a note. pfft "Oh where oh where am I gonna get a criminal to shoot....paper, where am I gonna get paper from????? Oh and a knife to stab it to the body....oh yeah." Not that I think it would work twice but im just astounded at your logic that if Wolverine gets tricked one way the exact circumstances have to be replicated. Just terrible.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah for example when DP shot Wolverine he had to use the wrecking crew to do it. 🙄
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No they dont contradict it thats ABC logic. Wolverine has dodged lasers from behind but still got shot by DP who was standing right in front of him. According to your logic Cap should lose to Spiderman because he cant punch at the speed of light. Spiderman still got punked. Spiderman can dodge lasers all day long but hes still getting pawned by Cap in H2H.
Yeah they do contradict it... finally are you arguing against ABC logic here, even though that was your staple argument in the black widow thread? Pathetic.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I couldnt careless what Soljer said. He pulled a gun on an unarmed man so what? So that changes the fact that he lost? The whole point is that Frank is fast enough to pull his gun on top tiers, the fact that he was unarmed is tough. He wasnt looking for a fight, so? He may not have come looking for a fight but it ended with him about to kill him. As far as im concerned it was close range, WS is better trained and has a cybernetic arm, that levels things out, hell when WS fought BW he used his arm to block her widow bites. If they started at long range thats another matter.
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No one lost. Hell punisher said Bucky'd kill him and even admitted he didn't know if he could kill Bucky. Punisher got schooled deal with it.
Wow, I had a hard time getting through all this nonsense, and Im not sure where to begin.
Yes that Punisher issue did have a fair amount of PIS in it, but to say its not cannon because no one talks about it is ridiculous. How often do you hear characters talk about a beating they took from a character who they rarely if ever interact with?
With an hour of prep, Puniser wins the majority here. Wolverine's hightend senses are more of a liability when you bring flash bombs and explosives into the picture. Deadpool was able to subdue Sabretooth for a while using a standard machine gun. Punisher with a chaingun and rockets will fair a lot better against Wolverine.
Speaking of Sabretooth, for the few of you who claim Wolverine cant be taken out by tranqs should read the old Sabretooth limited series. Creed, who's healing factor is roughly on par with Wolverine, was taken out long term by tranqs and a tazer.
As for Wolverine being above a ambush, why does it seem like at least 3 times a year he walk into a room just to have nameless Hand ninjas ambush him?
Damn i haven't been here for a while and look at what happen, a sh!t load of Punisher fanboy's pop up...damn, i was once special, now im just a face in the crowd...ahh well. Wolverine wins unless punisher has a day of prep and wolvie doesn't know he is comin for him.
With an hour of prep, Puniser wins the majority here. Wolverine's hightend senses are more of a liability when you bring flash bombs and explosives into the picture. Deadpool was able to subdue Sabretooth for a while using a standard machine gun. Punisher with a chaingun and rockets will fair a lot better against Wolverine.
Speaking of Sabretooth, for the few of you who claim Wolverine cant be taken out by tranqs should read the old Sabretooth limited series. Creed, who's healing factor is roughly on par with Wolverine, was taken out long term by tranqs and a tazer.
As for Wolverine being above a ambush, why does it seem like at least 3 times a year he walk into a room just to have nameless Hand ninjas ambush him?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I couldnt careless what Soljer said. He pulled a gun on an unarmed man so what? So that changes the fact that he lost? The whole point is that Frank is fast enough to pull his gun on top tiers, the fact that he was unarmed is tough. He wasnt looking for a fight, so? He may not have come looking for a fight but it ended with him about to kill him. As far as im concerned it was close range, WS is better trained and has a cybernetic arm, that levels things out, hell when WS fought BW he used his arm to block her widow bites. If they started at long range thats another matter.
Anyways... i know that you don't care about what Soljer has to say, ignoring the rationale of more reasonable members of the forum is part of what makes you a fanboy.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No he does not. Im not going to go into the defintion of what a fight is and KMC rules I already explained.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone🤨
No it does not speak for itself. For startes without a proper HF he had actually lost to DP.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneOnly.. EVER by Tranqs that Wolverine didn't think would put him down in a comic that had Wolverine dodging a gatling gun. But Wolverine dodged his bullets in the previously mentioned fight, AND did it again in their most recent encounter. Obviously your example sucks as always.
Hes been shot by DP.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The whole point aboout MK punking Wolverine is the fact that if MK can do that to Wolverine, Frank Castle can shoot him. Frank has shown his equal in H2H to MK on numerous ocassions.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If Molly Haye can punk Wolverine Frank Castle can shoot him. Hell Frank got punked by Molly and he didnt even know she was a mutant, Wolverine did what does that tell you?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Furthermore if Frank can blast him in the face with a shot gun I cant see why hes gonna have a problem shooting him.
Point Blank........ 😐
