Punisher vs Wolverine

Originally posted by Sado22
what wasn't a fight? when challenged them to try and stop him. stop me if you can is a challenge and if the person shows up then its a fight. i'm not going to debate word meanings and semantics with you.

Originally posted by Sado22
i honestly don't know what you're going on about.
this thread says frank gets one hour of prep time. in that issue frank was prepared. he made sure logan was distracted by the dead body and the note. sure as hell he can come up with something in ONE HOUR.

Originally posted by Sado22
is wolverine hotheaded? yes.
is wolveirne capable of blowing his top off and miss the big picture? yes.
is he impulsive? yes.
is he easy to reason with? no.
does he get all aggressive when things can be reached at a simpler conclusion? yes.
is he easy to tick off? yes.
is he easy to play emotionally? yes.
is he impatient and irrational? yes.
all of which was shown in character by Ennis. and the issue is canon. what more do you want? wolverien was distracted and frank got him. the same has happened time and time again. nuff said.
Fraid not,

Wolverine's been so level headed compared to his earlier comic career it's not even funny. Hell in recent years he didn't even go berserk while fighting Gorgon, or Sabretooth.

What isn't shown about the characters is more important.
His heightened senses? Gone.
Intelligence? Gone.
Speed? Gone.
Fighting Ability? Gone.
Agility? Gone.
DD's Radar sense? Gone.
Spidey's Spider sense? Gone.
DD's sense of smell? Gone.
Hulk's HF and stamina? Gone.

It was Ennis written crap "nuff said".

[QUOTE=10262220]Originally posted by Sado22
[B]all of this is there in ennis. he gets shot by frank. and that's been done before several times. he gets shot by a rocket launcher despite his senses. that's been done before. heck namor blindsided him during the Civil war era and he was a few paces away from him when he did it. i'm getting kinda tired of you and battlehammer trying to act like logain is impossible to surprise. he's not. its been done so many times that its practicaly a joke to imply otherwise. i just gave you the best example of that: namor and logan fighting, wolveirne getting preoccupied with something else and then getting ko'd by namor with a punch. he just walked up to him and punched him...............and all this time logan was standing there like a jackass cuz he was distracted by what some chick wsa telling him. where was his senses then?
and yet, here you're having a problem digesting the fact that he got shot by a rocket launcher which last time i checked tends to come at you faster than a haymaker.

Now, I don't think Wolverine's unsneakable, if I thought he wasn't capable of making mistakes, I wouldn't give Punisher any wins at all, but that isn't the case, I'm just not convinced he takes the majority.

Originally posted by Sado22
he wouldn't want to?
its more like he didn't need to. logan was there bleeding. there was nothing more for frank to do. and are you seriously arguing with me that frank couldn't do anything to logan there when he's done worse to a fully operating, pissedoff logan? get real man.

Hell no he wouldn't want to. You see again, my interpretation is made up of his entire career not just his low showings in Punisher books, Ennis written garbage.

Originally posted by Sado22
he did this? good for him. now please tell me how that matters when he already has his nose full of some dead body AND is distracted by something else. why didn't he just smell namor when he knocked him out. why didnt' he just smell frank when he shot him down from a few yards away? answer me that.

It matters because it calls into question the validity of an already bias and PIS filled issue. Sure it's canon, that doesn't mean that it takes precidence over Wolverine's career.

Umm Wolverine already knew where Namor was at, hell he put him there.. Why would his sense of smell help alert Wolverine to the fact that Namor was concious again? 😕

Originally posted by Sado22
no they weren't. they were a few paces behind him. and i can post the pic for you too.

Originally posted by Sado22
he gets a note saying "sucker" from a man he has only run into a grand total of 5 times. and we both know he's not as smart as Matt or Peter. the real crapola is how someone as clearly limited in intelligence is said to be as smart as 4 computers. all that and he speaks like some trailer trash junkie and acts like (to quote scott summers) "a reject from a clint eastwood movie".

Wolverine's clearly limited in intelligence? Is that why he's been on practically every government branch of the U.S. , every military organization, and covert opts organization?
is that how he hacked into the Weapon X files, infiltrated the White House, The X-mansion, SHEILD? Is that why Fury thinks Wolverine would make "THE perfect shield agent"?
Cause he has limited intelligence?
Scott doesn't like Wolverine it's not hard to see why he'd insult him.

Originally posted by Sado22
first, its canon.
second, answer my above questions first.

and here's a thought:
the rocket launcher came the moment logan read "suckers". must be true since at just that moment spidey and DD make a run for it.

Originally posted by Sado22
....and still gets pugged by namor, sniped in the eye by a guy he sees, shot by others, shot in the leg from a few yards away etc. etc. etc.
like i said, answer my above questions.

Originally posted by Sado22
and keeping in mind the zillion times he didn't 😉

Wolverine gets shot a lot because again, the quickest distance between two points is a straight line, and he knows he can take it.

Originally posted by Sado22
the real joke hasn't returned to the thread yet, actually.
the real joke is also that you bring up a few examples where logan dodges bullets.......and then me or somebody else brings up 10 others where he doesn't. the joke is also that your explanation is that he doesn't dodge on purpose. and then i could always tell you that maybe he didn't dodge the rocketlauncher on purpose either. 😆

Originally posted by Sado22
hit in the balls and just sitting there about to be toasted. big difference too.
having his lower body incinerated. obviously couldn't fight. big difference too.

Already established the first as a Punisher win.
Second wasn't a fight.

Originally posted by Sado22
to you the latter isn't a win cuz logan wasn't outcold. well, frank wasn't out either in any of the parts you mentioned..

Originally posted by Sado22
really? cuz logan wasn't. he was too busy screaming for someone to help him. frank left from the same area so why didn't logan chase after him? like i said, he was too busy screaming for help.

Originally posted by Sado22
if you want to resort to namecalling and titles, that's fine. fact remains, you haven't proven anything yet. all you seem to be suggesting is that wolverine can dodge anything frank throws at him despite frank being prepared for one hour for this. and what you say means nothing when compared to how many times he's been shot, sliced, diced, maimed, mashed, stabbed, roasted, toasted, gutted, run over.........and roadrollered.
like i said, you answer my questions and i'll be happy to concede where i need to. my life doesn't revolve around some dumbass fictional character.

~Sado

I never said Wolverine was untouchable, just that it's going to be harder for Punisher to take Logan down when he's not limited by Ennis' bias.
and what questions?

Originally posted by redhotrash
Wow, I had a hard time getting through all this nonsense, and Im not sure where to begin.
Yes that Punisher issue did have a fair amount of PIS in it, but to say its not cannon because no one talks about it is ridiculous. How often do you hear characters talk about a beating they took from a character who they rarely if ever interact with?
With an hour of prep, Puniser wins the majority here. Wolverine's hightend senses are more of a liability when you bring flash bombs and explosives into the picture. Deadpool was able to subdue Sabretooth for a while using a standard machine gun. Punisher with a chaingun and rockets will fair a lot better against Wolverine.
Speaking of Sabretooth, for the few of you who claim Wolverine cant be taken out by tranqs should read the old Sabretooth limited series. Creed, who's healing factor is roughly on par with Wolverine, was taken out long term by tranqs and a tazer.
As for Wolverine being above a ambush, why does it seem like at least 3 times a year he walk into a room just to have nameless Hand ninjas ambush him?

There are a few things that need to be addressed though.
I wouldn't say that DP subdued Sabretooth to any degree. And Sabretooth made absolutely no effort to avoid the bullets, cause well let's face it, he didn't have to. Not only this but Sabretooth didn't even have his adamantium skeleton at this point. When he did it was obvious that bullets were nothing short of be as effective as a solid whack with a feather.

It doesn't stand as a good example for anything that pretains to Wolverine who might be taking a far more cautious approach considering the circumstances.

I don't know who's arguing the Tranq thing, Wolverine's always shown a bit of an affinity for those and poisions and the like.

Finally.. any more clear examples than this? Most of the time hand ninjas just drop in on Logan while he's eating, or trying to sleep, or dancing.. I don't ever recall him heading into a hand ambush where he wasn't doing it intentionally.

Not to mention that hand ninja are skilled enough to sneak up on DD...

Now I think you bring up an interesting point in how Wolverine's heightened senses might be a liability to him if Punisher can make use of that advantage, however the reason why I'm so opposed to Punisher taking the majority here is because of how easily Wolverine can turn the tables on Punisher.

We're talking about a guy who ALSO snuck up on Daredevil.
A guy who can dissapear infront of nightcrawler in broad daylight.
And we have to take into account that aside from being a hit or miss thing, attacking Wolverine's senses might very well backfire.
Hulk did it and ended up KOed.
Sabretooth did it and Wolverine ran through him.
Typhoid Mary did it and he curbed her.

I think Punisher stands to win here maybe even 4 outa 10 I still don't think he has a shot at taking the majority though.

Originally posted by Sado22
so is this you trying to be different then? 😄

word.

I saw that some one implied DP has shot Wolverine easily before.

That not true. When ever wolverine has attempted to dodge his fire such as the time his healing factor was on the frizt he did it easily.

Then there was the most recent issue in which wolverine dodge michine gune fire from DP and sniper firer.

I'm not namecalling.. If you think a book that has Punisher best not just Wolverine, but Spiderman, Daredevil, AND Hulk AND in the same arc is free from bias, then you too are either bias or fully dilusional... Considering you already said that Punisher would beat Black Widow before you knew much about her, and that he would beat both Wolverine AND Captain America.. well it's easy to see what conclusion I may be drawn to.

look i never said he'd beat Captain. don't put words in my mouth. also i'm the one who said he can't beat either of these people (spidey, DD, wolveirne, captain or hulk) without preperation either. the only person i said he would beat is DD in 5/5 chance since the one time they did fight to the finish, Frank outlasted him and beat him. THAT is what i'm saying. and that is what every person (and that'd be almost everyone) supporting Frank in this thread has been saying.

he beat them all with preperation. just like here. he beat hulk by blowing him up on the inside...............something no one has ever done before. so it holds. and he beat him over a course of a few weeks. or a week at one by feeding him C4. that is not pis. considering he was hiding the whole time. i never said he beat hulk............i said he stopped him/pwned him, considering that very few have done it. or even come close for that record.

as for Wolverine, i already asked you to reply to what i said. there are no explanations for him being shot or sniped before. and we both know that it has happened. hence, frank shooting him down with a rocket launcher is NOT pis.

as for wolveirne being capable of making a difference...........i think i gave frank a 8/10 win chance. meaning that wolveirne has 2/10 of pulling it off. but considering his record against frank (and with the added reduced HF) make even this hard to believe. but i'll give him the benefit of doubt. frank wins 8/10.

Namor threw the haymaker. yes, i know Namor is strong. but he WALKED UP TO HIM. where were his reflexes then? THAT is what i asked you. don't dodge the question.

Now, I don't think Wolverine's unsneakable, if I thought he wasn't capable of making mistakes, I wouldn't give Punisher any wins at all, but that isn't the case, I'm just not convinced he takes the majority.

Hell no he wouldn't want to. You see again, my interpretation is made up of his entire career not just his low showings in Punisher books, Ennis written garbage.

They were like 5 feet behind him. So what? You're talking about guys who move faster than the human eye can register.

Umm Wolverine already knew where Namor was at, hell he put him there.. Why would his sense of smell help alert Wolverine to the fact that Namor was concious again?

Fighting other people,Fighting other people, Running after other people.. your examples suck.

if you actually think about it, you'd see that all of us have been saying the same thing: that frank can shoot logan if he's distracted or preoccupied. which your post here shows too. talk about shooting yourself in the groin 😄

Your examples are either scewed by outside circumstances or they ignore that Wolverine isn't attempting to dodge so they mean little

~Sado

When you say he has a 5/5 chance of beating DD that means he beats him 100% of the time. 😛

When you say he has a 5/5 chance of beating DD that means he beats him 100% of the time.

Originally posted by jgiant
Damn i haven't been here for a while and look at what happen, a sh!t load of Punisher fanboy's pop up...damn, i was once special, now im just a face in the crowd...ahh well. Wolverine wins unless punisher has a day of prep and wolvie doesn't know he is comin for him.

How are we fanboys?

Originally posted by jgiant
Damn i haven't been here for a while and look at what happen, a sh!t load of Punisher fanboy's pop up...damn, i was once special, now im just a face in the crowd...ahh well. Wolverine wins unless punisher has a day of prep and wolvie doesn't know he is comin for him.

cosigned.

don't worry you will all ways be my number 1 😄

something everyone needs to know about that issue:

-first of all frank didn't send out an open challenge to the three idiots. it was in ways, but he didn't explicitly say "i'm here, come and get me"
-second, the trio were forming plans to stop him and all of a sudden DD heard someone scream in agony from miles away
-logan was dead set against going but followed the two goodytwoshoes
-they tracket it down to the spot where frank had gutted a man
-logan went up to read the note
-he read 'suckers' and DD and spidey ran for it
-logan didn't get it and was shot.

things to notice here are the fact that logan didn't know it was Frank who wrote the note, that they were caught off guard (in that frank practically lured them out into a trap without them knowing), that frank was even around and that Frank fired the launcher at the EXACT MOMENT that logan read it.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
something everyone needs to know about that issue:

-first of all frank didn't send out an open challenge to the three idiots. it was in ways, but he didn't explicitly say "i'm here, come and get me"
-second, the trio were forming plans to stop him and all of a sudden DD heard someone scream in agony from miles away
-logan was dead set against going but followed the two goodytwoshoes
-they tracket it down to the spot where frank had gutted a man
-logan went up to read the note
-he read 'suckers' and DD and spidey ran for it
-logan didn't get it and was shot.

things to notice here are the fact that logan didn't know it was Frank who wrote the note, that they were caught off guard (in that frank practically lured them out into a trap without them knowing), that frank was even around and that Frank fired the launcher at the EXACT MOMENT that logan read it.

~Sado

OOO why didnt you say that.... anyway heres another example of Wolverines genuis. Wolverine gets punked while his other teamates dont. Anybody with any common sense would know that especially on an alien planet you dont underestimate your opponents.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2417/uncannyxmen108057iw.jpg

We also still have Molly Hayes punking Wolverine because he wasnt cautious and Cap and Iron Man not getting punked because they were cautious.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Runaways/Runawaysv2012-page07.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Runaways/Runawaysv2012-page08.jpg

Wolverine is not always a genuis. In fact it could damn well be argued that he smelt a rat and thats why he was reading the note.

Originally posted by jinzin
See now this is a reasonable and rational post, with a good argument for how Punisher can win in a fight.

Yeah but Wolverine still wins the majority.

OOO why didnt you say that....

In fact it could damn well be argued that he smelt a rat and thats why he was reading the note.

i'm surprised you haven't figured that out yet 🙄

Originally posted by Sado22
cuz i read the whole volume4 yesterday again after 3 years.

dude, he just stood there and got shot. don't you know that yet?!
heck, he let himself be kidnapped and go through the excruciating pain of being coated by adamantium..........heck he even let magneto rip the admantium off too. heck, he let himself be hit, shot, maimed all the time.

i'm surprised you haven't figured that out yet 🙄

Yeah ok im just...saying, before you explained it just seemed a bit dodgey. The thing is eventhough I think Frank wins the majority I think you are downplaying Wolverines intelligence a bit. Wolverine is prone to make mistakes but he is still highly intelligent for example he was actually given a postion to teach some younger students at the X mansion. I dont think its fair to say he lets himself get captured all the time though because everybody gets captured. I mean cap got captured by a Skrull once that dont mean he "let" himself get captured....but yeah Wolverine is prone to making mistakes. 🙁

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Frank has shot Spiderman and nailed him to the wall with a knife. Spiderman has faster reflexes than Wolverine.

Originally posted by jinzin

Wolverine is not spiderman.

Somebody help me!!!!! Could somebody please I beg you please point out to jinzin what an absurd response this is. Somebody help him.....for the love of God! baka

i'm afraid its too late. all we can do for jinzin is pray🙂

~Sado

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
[B]Somebody help me!!!!! Could somebody please I beg you please point out to jinzin what an absurd response this is. Somebody help him.....for the love of God! baka [/B]

All I'm saying is that Wolverine isn't inhibited by the same CIS that Spiderman was when Punisher did those things. And that's the ONLY reason Punisher even touched Spidey... I'm not trying to say that Wolverine's a better bullet dodger by any means, rather that your example against Spidey is a bit skewed.

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm afraid its too late. all we can do for jinzin is pray🙂

~Sado

Oh please I'm not going to take this from two guys who think that Punisher can take out DC earth not to mention think that Ennis writes a definitive marvel story for any character...

The man wrote Punisher kills the MU for god sakes...

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh please I'm not going to take this from two guys who think that Punisher can take out DC earth not to mention think that Ennis writes a definitive marvel story for any character...

The man wrote Punisher kills the MU for god sakes...

😂

Oh please I'm not going to take this from two guys who think that Punisher can take out DC earth not to mention think that Ennis writes a definitive marvel story for any character...

...but then again, you also seem to have a problem wrapping your head around frank having one hour here so i guess i can't blame you. like i said.....it's too late.

~Sado