Originally posted by Sado22
i know what you're trying to say but you missed the point. i'm not tlaking about point blank range. if he gets shot in point blank range after hearing a shot, i dont blame him. i've done martial arts and boxing for a long time myself and i know dodging a punch you see coming is almost impossible unless its telegraphed in a way (dropping a shoulder, wide step in etc.)
I'm not talking about point blank range either.. 😕
The reference was to point out that you can see something coming and still get hit by it.
Whether this is due to issues of balance, distractions, awareness etc etc.. the point still remains that logan can not only see bullets but dodge them when he has to far more often than not.. that's not however to say he's perfect.
Originally posted by Sado22
but from the scans that battlehammer provided, he seems to imply that Wolveirne can dodge bullets........but just gets shot for the heck of it. now THAT i don't understand. sure, he can heal, but why do it fights with opponents who are tough?
Because with an HF like his (when it's working properly), bullets are really little more than bee stings, and the fastest distance between to points is....
Originally posted by Sado22
not to mention that the links he provided din't prove that logan can dodge bullets since:
-the first one, he only picked up the scent as the wind blew in
-the second one he was right there when the person was shooting and he just put his claws forward
-the third he caught the bullet........and we don't know what happens before it or after it
-and in other threads there have been shots from recent post civil war times when he got shot in the face despite seeing the guy aim at him 😐~Sado
Like I said, he's not perfect, but are you honestly going to try arguing that Wolverine can't dodge bullets?
Daredevil's senses have had DD outright state that Wolverine was dodging "all those bullets" from machine gun fire.
Spidey's senses have allowed him to recognize that Wolverine was dodging lazers along side him.
Wolverine says dodging bullets are easy.
Wolverine's been stated on panel by the third person narrative to dodge lazers and bullets...
It's not really up for debate...
Again, that's not to say he's untouchable. I'm sure even the best of dodgeball champions get nailed with a ball when they're in gameplay. 😬
Originally posted by BattlehammerAlright, numbnut. Punisher has weapon stashes everywhere in the city. Nobody ever argued that he would have access to SHIELD or Starktech. So like I said, your point is moot.
-Punisher does not have access to SHIELD and only had a few of there guns for roughly an issue.-Punisher does not have accesses to Starch Tech and his partner blow up the base containing it during the alien invasion.
So you are mistaken my point is not moot though your however is.
Originally posted by BattlehammerAnd I am talking about Punisher War Journal #13. Which is the second time he nearly kills Rhino and clearly is post-Civil War. So stop trying to argue a moot point. Nobody is trying to establish that he has Starktech. But it is obvious that he has conventional weapon stashes in the city from his weaponry in issue #13; which included a god damn revolving rocket launcher.
You do realize that the issue you are referring to Punisher War Journal #4. I am referring to events that transpired issues later. Such as issue 12 in which he faces the aliens and has to blow up his last remaining base the one that housed all the Stark Tech.I find it funny that you think issue 4 of war journal is a new issue and referencing it as if it was.
Originally posted by BattlehammerOver a decade ago means not a god damn thing in Marvel time. You do know that comics continuity runs differently then actual real world publishing time? Don't even try to suggest that 'Fatal Attractions' took place over a decade ago in Wolverine's mind. EPIC PHAIL.
How it baseless or ridiculous assumption? It was clearly stated that it had not been this weak in years. Key word is years not a decade or over a decade, but years. If he was referring to over a decade it would have been stated, just like it was stated that he had not felt such” adrenalin in over a century.” So there nothing ridiculous about my statement, it the logical conclusion that his healing factor has digress some were between 2 to 9 years.
Originally posted by BattlehammerSmoke grenades. Punisher knows about Wolverine's sense acuity. If you don't think he couldn't blow a few dozen smoke grenades in the warehouse to mask scents during the hour prep time or during the battle then you clearly underestimate Punisher's intelligence. I mean, how the hell would you go about prepping a warehouse for Wolverine's arrival with basic knowledge of Wolverine? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Not when he was going to face the opponent and knows the opponents smell.Logan being ambushed period with his known is very rare and not something Punisher could achieve in a forum battle. Logan would have far better chance ambushing Punisher then vice versa.
Originally posted by BattlehammerI read it, I own it and guess what, my interpretation is more faithful then yours. You listed his infiltration into the Baxter Building as if he snuck in completely undetected, whereas we both know the truth: 1) He had use of teleportation tech; of which HYDRA clearly made extensive use during the infiltration; 2) Wolverine was still located by Reed, DESPITE your affinity for describing him as being untraceable; 3) Sue knocked the crap out of him and Wolverine would have been paste if HYDRA didn't teleport his butt out. So what does this mean? Wolverine isn't nearly the perfect ghost that you make him out to be. Think of the context of this battle, where Punisher knows Wolverine is coming in one hour and rethink your position.
The issue is Wolverine # 22.
Wolverine did not teleport into the Baxter building nor was it ever implied that he had. Logan snuck in and implied that he did so throw vents. The teleportation idea of your never happen and makes me wonder if you even read the issue your trying to debate over. Teleporting never would have worked it would have set off the alarms and there teleportation device was not accurate at all and could have placed him any were within the building. As for Wolverine being detected it was not his presences that set off the alarms. Logan was only caught due to the fact he was hacking into there computers which again was made clear if you read the issue. Reed noticed it and then was able to locate Wolverine. Also by slap silly you mean he had hacked there computer program so well prior to reed catching him that he was able to uses voice commands to fire distinguishers to put John Storm out. Then he easily took out Ben with a single attack. All Reed manage to do was contain Wolverine and Sue was the only one that actually did anything to him.So next time you try and give this superior attitude about an issue I own, you should read it first so you don’t spit out incorrect events.
Originally posted by BattlehammerShe snuck onto SHIELD helicarrier in Mighty Avengers #6. Not Avengers Tower, my bads. Nobody's perfect. Funny thing though. After thinking about my mistake, I remembered 'Fallen Son.' Wolverine had Dr. Strange teleport and mask Wolverine onto the SHIELD helicarrier. Where were his vaulted infiltration skills there? Keep in mind that once Strange stopped cloaking him, SHIELD helicarrier security detected him immediately. So while my initial assumption was incorrect that Wolverine's infiltration abilities are on par with Spiderwoman and perhaps Avengers Tower has crappy security, it appears his infiltration skills are clearly below Spiderwoman's. Hmph.
By sneak in you mean Spiderwoman walked through the front door? Because as I recall she never snuck into anything and given your track record in this very post alone with accurately portraying an event, I am going to go out on a limb and assume your incorrect again.
Originally posted by BattlehammerOnce again, you've completely ignored the 1 hour prep time in which Punisher could easily mask their scent with smoke. Read X-Men: Messiah Complex #1 where the X-Men are in the burning hospital. Or friggin read Wolverin: Origins #21 where a bomb was hidden inside a duck. Maybe Punisher has time to go to the Chinese market and grab a few ducks? 😆
You mean just like Wolverine did in Wolverine tooth and claws. Claymores are not odorless, the human nose simply can not detect it smell, because it not strong nor sensitive enough to do so. Logan sense of smell is superhuman and easily strong enough to smell the Claymore.
Originally posted by BattlehammerGibberish. You have done nothing to counter the point that Wolverine's sense of smell has been circumvented. And you do know how people utilize flashbangs? When the guy using them sets one off, he usually closes his eyes for a second to avoid being blinded. Your idea of Punisher trying to ambush Wolverine is by running around throwing smoke bombs AFTER Wolverine gets there, throwing flashbangs and NOT closing his eyes, blinding himself and putting claymores out in the open. For crap's sake, Punisher has more experience with explosives and knows about Wolverine's sense of acuity. Even I, with no military training can think of ways around Wolverine's senses, what tricks do you think a trained black ops on Punisher's level wouldn't think of?
He could do that, but then again he would be unable to see them himself... Also further more Claymores hidden in warehouse would be pretty dam easy to see much easier then in a jungle.
Originally posted by BattlehammerSorry, I think your observation on the Savage Land, while reasonable, is ambiguous and not very clear. Here are the lines: Cage, "Why'd you jump her, Man?" Wolverine, "I'm bein tracked. Puh! I'm bein' followed and I couldnt take no chances. Didnt expect y'all, and I didnt recognized either of your scents. This place is screwy like that. RRRR..." Kazar's got no problems, Iron Man's radar had no problems, Spiderman's spidey sense has no problems (besides the point, I know). Fact is, he did smell them. It's not like he can't smell in the Savage Land. And when did the Savage Land mess with radar? It didn't mess with Iron Man's radar in New Avengers #6. So while I think your position is reasonable, I don't think it's as clear as you maek it out to be. So we'll have to agree to disagree. Overall, this side debate is a completely moot point since we're not arguing about a jungle scenario.
You mean New Avengers issue 5. Again misrepresenting what had occurred. Logan does not have trouble using his superhuman senses in a jungle, so please, don’t imply such a thing with out having read the issue and knowing the facts. The savage land messes with ones senses, radar, ect. It not due to being a jungle it do to the very nature of the Savage Land which was made very clear in the issue.You are referring to X-Men Messiah Complex issue 1. Again misrepresenting what had occurred, seems to be quite the pattern with you. It was not the smoke that did any thing. It was a hospital that was blown to hell. Logan stated that the chemicals from the room were in the smoke making it difficult to discern what had happen. Even with that covering the smell if not mistaken Logan was still was able to tell them that the baby escaped.
It wasn't just the chemicals in the room that screwed with Wolverine's sense of smell. It was also the smoke. And Emma was the one that deduced the baby escaped when she looked at the paperwork for three babies and saw only two babies were left behind.
Originally posted by BattlehammerYou think Wolverine can pick out a man's heartbeat through detonated explosions inside a warehouse. And Punisher would be stupid enough to set claymores around where they would hurt him? Why? Because he doesn't know the range of claymores? BWAHAHAHA!
... Again he only has an hour of prep. That’s a very unlikely scenario. Also he be able to smell Frank not to mention he could simply listen for a heart beat.Again he only has a single hour. Again his armory were destroy or taken over. Not to mention the fact that he could cause the place damage and it could cave in and I wonder who that worse for the guy with the healing factor or the one with out. Also makes you think that would distract Wolverine? A Man who has fought in almost ever war since War World I, explosions are not going to be that bothersome.
Originally posted by Battlehammer..... You really think Wolverine used his senses to track a person over the god damn English Channel? .... Are you even kidding me with this?! He may have used his senses to pick out Mystique in the mosque, but are you seriously implying that he followed her scent from Muir Island to Iran? And when I read the comic, the only depiction of Wolverine sniffing around is at the beginning where Wolverine is talking about her scent being all over the place and then gutting the Iranian girl... only oops... you see at the end it was Mystique acting as an imposter the whole time to anger the local people.
Actually it was, Logan used his senses to find her.Showcase his underworld connection? Is that seriously your responses?
First of all why would Logan have connections in Iran? Not to mention almost every one of his connections are dead. Plus Logan’s not part of the underworld any more, most of them that are left want him dead. As for SHIELD are you kidding me? Logan’s wanted by the government, and is one of the most wanted people by SHIELD.
Then on top of that how the hell is any one going to aid Wolverine in finding her? She a shaped shifter, unless you have superhuman senses of a very high degree and already know her scent there would be no way for you to tell it was her.
He used his senses to find her, though your attempts to try and say other wise were amusing. Also the issue is Wolverine 62. No were in the arc did it imply that he used any type of connections to find her. He used his senses which any one can see from reading the issue.
Originally posted by BattlehammerYou've tried to prove: 1) That Punisher doen't have any weapon stashes. Clearly wrong. 2) That Wolverine's senses cannot be circumvented. Clearly wrong. 3) That Punisher doesn't have enough time to prep his killzone in the warehouse? LAME. Where is the proof that Punisher would be pressed for time? All you do is express some incredulity at his ability to do so. No proof, no nothing. If I were to describe how I'd spend my hour prepping it: 5 minute drive to a stash. 5 minutes to load up dozen claymores, a few dozen smoke grenades, a dozen flash bangs, a sniper rifle + random guns. 5 minutes back to the warehouse. 35 minutes setting up trip wire claymores, flashbangs and various explosives, all the while looking to see where his best hiding spots and sniping positions would be. 5 minutes to set off and throw around 3 dozen smoke grenades throughout the warehouse to fill warehouse with smoke. 5 minutes to get to his first hiding spot. There. But bottom-line, you're just going to say he'd need more time and I'd say he has enough time. So we'll just have to agree to disagree. Because we both know that your argument is a simple conclusory, "No, he can't." To which I can only respond, "Yes, he can. That's the op's whole point behind the hour prep."
No I really don’t see how Punisher with an hour of prep can distract Wolverine in such a way as to gain the ability to take the majority.It has nothing to do with single minded. I like my arguments no to be reaching and unlikely to come about. You have through out the debate have given Punisher much more credit then he deserves. You for some odd reason think within an hour he can get anything that he needs, but in reality that’s not the case. The time limited completely restricts the items he will be able to lay his hands on. It also restricts how well he able to set up the warehouse. All of which you seem to ignore and act as if it some unlimited amount of time.
Originally posted by BattlehammerBlah blah blah. More conclusory statements, of which I've already shot down. And I won't even bother rebuking the inane argument that Punisher's own claymores would hurt him more then Wolverine or would collapse the warehouse. Punisher knows the range of those god damn armaments and has seen what they do. You dont think Wolverine would fall for trip wires? That's reasonable. How about afer several remote flashbangs go off and a remote detonated claymore drives him into a killzone filled with them? Better yet, forget the trip wires, remote detonate them all. Trying to respond to the foolishness of your arguments calls for simple answers. And the fight takes place INSIDE the warehouse you ninny.
Actual again you misrepresent the event. The scan is not showing that simply distracting Logan will allow you to snipe him. Logan’s not being distracted by items, but people and that’s a massive differences. Logan was fighting other combatants that were many times more powerful then himself and he was shouting order. These two distractions Punisher can not mimic because he does not have a team of men for Logan to lead nor a group of powerful mutants for him to battle.None of the distraction you listed above comes close to mimicking what had actually occurred.
Remote detonated claymores? That he could get in an hour with out any armory to go to... Also there’s always the chance Logan could stay out side the warehouse and simply way for Punisher to come out which is about as likely as Punisher blowing up haft the warehouse, which is very unlikely.
Originally posted by BattlehammerI'm not talking about general accuracy. I'm talking about marksmanship with a sniper rifle. Punisher, by far, has the most experience. Bullseye specializes in throwing objects. Hawkeye specializes in a bow. Cap specializes with his shield. They're all above world class, but not clearly above Punisher's skill with a rifle. Besides, that's not the f'ing point.
I find it amusing how you are bias without recognizing it. You love to use Wolverines low end feats as the norm and then use Punishers high end feats as the norm.……….please tell me you’re not that bias. Second maybe to Bullseye…….come on are you kidding me? There is no maybe, Bulleye is simply better. Punisher not second I am sorry to say, but people such as hawk eye, Captain America and so forth are superior in accuracy.
Originally posted by BattlehammerYes. It is. Distractions work. And for you to sincerely argue that Punisher could only shoot Wolverine through the eye ONLY IF he gets several superpowered mutants to join him in this fight is just asinine. You are not asinine. I'm not insulting you this time. But that arguments is just asinine. The relvancy of the scan is not meant to be literal but illustrative. You deduce that Scalphunter was able to snipe Wolverine because Wolverine was distracted. You don't deduce that Scalphunter was only able to snipe Wolverine because he had several mutants fighting him and thus ONLY in such a situation could such a feat EVER be replicated. EPIC PHAIL.
It is really not that relevant. A gun shot to the eye is not going to KO Wolverine. The shot would need to travel into the brain and bounces around his skull, which is very unlikely from happening. There’s also the factor that scupthunter has superhuman accuracy and the fact he had distractions that Punisher can replicate. So no, it really not relevant.
Originally posted by BattlehammerHe only sensed the opponent in the first and third scan. The fourth doesn't worl. AND you used a non-canon crossover for your first scan, the most impressive, but alas, according to forum rules, illegitimate use of a feat. Nice try. And I, among others have already explained how the use of a downwind scent enabled Logan to detect his attacker in the legitimate third scan.
How it irrelevant to my above posts again? There all relevant. Logan can sense the attacker and the bullet being fire. This is all very relevant, because as shown Punisher not going to be hitting Wolverine unaware when Logan knows that he his opponent.
Originally posted by BattlehammerSuperhuman senses which a prepping Punisher can easily deal with. And your argument that he wouldn't have access to smoke grenades or flashbangs? Phail. And otherwise taken care of by the god damn op who says he's got his armories and if you don't even like that, I showed you up and proved that he's got weapon stashes despite the consfication efforts of SHIELD.
No need to. Logan can senses the attack prior to it assault in a similar manner to DD. As Logan is ready for the combat his senses can and do pick up on attacks such as bullets being fired, living lightning attempting an ambush and so on.Logan has superhuman senses which pick up on it and even more so if he knows his opponent is about.
Originally posted by BattlehammerYou've completely mangled the post. 'Blood and Glory' is an example of how Punisher has sniped an opponent with an uncanny knack for sensing attacks. Wolverine's senses are easily neutralized and without them, he'd have to rely on his experience and instinct. I just referred you to an example where someone with experience and instinct still got sniped. And it was by Punisher.
How is this relevant? Capt does not have Wolverines level of senses or even close to it. Capt also does not know hes going into a warehouse to face punisher.
Originally posted by BattlehammerDon't twist my words. I didn't mean his legs were literally blown off. I know they have adamantium. And if you look at the scan, his left leg's flesh is blown off. Your cheap attempts to undermine my arguments by twisting my words when compared to your own errors don't add any legitmacy or veracity of arguments. Because I referred to an issue where Wolverine got steamrolled and you were talking about another issue means that I'm trying to mislead you? Phail. And you know what? The fact is, you're better then that. Stick to substantive arguments.
Actually you did not at all. Sado tried and ended up contradicting himself.Really he acknowledge them? Really you truly believe that? Becuases if you do would you mind explain how punisher who only 20 feet up from Wolverine, Daredevil and Spiderman did not get sensed? Becuases both Wolverine and Daredevil know his smell and heart beat. He should have been notice with in seconds. Spidermans spider senses should have gone off and yet none of it did. Just showing how PIS the issue was. Further more Logan drank acid. A man with superhuman senses drank acid.
That’s just some of the PIS that was the core of the arc.The pot calling the kettle black. You have inaccurately presented almost every example you have given of Wolverine and your lecturing me about faulty memory pleases.
There’s nothing faulty about my memory, but yours on the other hand could use some work.
There was no steam roller in the issue I was referring to, so wrong again.
Actually Logan’s legs can’t be blown off due to adamtium and it was his stomach, so wrong again.Actually last time I checked blowing apart some ones stomach, but not KOing or even dropping them is not a win by KMC rules, so wrong again.
You tell me I have a faulty memory and then prove your ignorance by inaccurately stating what had occurred. That’s amusing.
And the scan of him being rocket launched is not a win? Are you kidding me? Wolverine can't move his legs! The only thing he could do would be move his arms around at best! Dropping a person into a helpless position like that is a win on these forums. And if you REALLY want to argue semantics, being incapacitated like that would make him a simple target for a follow up rocket, or a shot to the eye.
Originally posted by BattlehammerBottom-line is, you don't think he could do it. Your opinion. But your main arguments are: 1) Punisher doesn't have the weapons; 2) Wolverine's senses can't be fooled; 3) Punisher doesn't have enough time; 4) Punisher's latest feat against Wolverine was retconned. I already definitively proved you wrong on # 1 and #4. #2 you still argue, and even I admit his senses are still a factor, but it doesn't leave him completely invulnerable to attack since throwing in some distractions has proven to leave him open to gunfire. And #3, you just won't budge on. But if that's all you have, then all you're saying is Punisher doesn't have enough time. That's weak and conclusory. Because the only response is just as conclusory in nature. Yes, he does have enough time.
Wow I was wrong. Weird.
Certainly, in light of everything we've argued, your refusal to suspend your disbelief on Punisher prepping a killzone in an hour like I describe is very suspicious. Considering you're able to suspend your disbelief and believe that Wolverine was able to follow a scent over the English Channel. I mean... what did he do? Swim the whole way while sniffing her scent? Hang-glide the whole way to keep a trail on her scent? And somehow, Punisher prepping a warehouse, when the op stated he had time to do so is more unbelievable then that?
Punisher with 1 hour prep 6/10. Nuff said.
It can be a pretty even fight here. I think if frank uses some type of traping method, like blowing up the entire warehouse and having all the exits booby traped as well, hindering wolvies escape, he can get hurt pretty good allowing Frank to hit him with a sh!t load of firepower while he is down, but this can go either way. 5/10 for both.
Like I said, he's not perfect, but are you honestly going to try arguing that Wolverine can't dodge bullets?Daredevil's senses have had DD outright state that Wolverine was dodging "all those bullets" from machine gun fire.
Spidey's senses have allowed him to recognize that Wolverine was dodging lazers along side him.
Wolverine says dodging bullets are easy.
Wolverine's been stated on panel by the third person narrative to dodge lazers and bullets...
It's not really up for debate...Again, that's not to say he's untouchable. I'm sure even the best of dodgeball champions get nailed with a ball when they're in gameplay.
Frank's one of the best gunmen in marvel, as far as i've seen. he's so good that he can predict when the opponent is going to move, how he's going to move and where he's going to move. in a room full of mafia guys frank entered with a shot gun and killed them all despite them packing uzi's and mp5's. why? cuz he said it himself
"been doing it for so long i can tell how there gonna do it".
and that's just what happens. one guys moves to the left and frank knew it and blows his head off. the other guy hides behind a door and frank blows the door off 🙂
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22
okay granted that wolverine can dodge bullets. at the same time we also know that he's been shot. and thus it goes down to whose shooting him.Frank's one of the best gunmen in marvel, as far as i've seen. he's so good that he can predict when the opponent is going to move, how he's going to move and where he's going to move. in a room full of mafia guys frank entered with a shot gun and killed them all despite them packing uzi's and mp5's. why? cuz he said it himself
"been doing it for so long i can tell how there gonna do it".
and that's just what happens. one guys moves to the left and frank knew it and blows his head off. the other guy hides behind a door and frank blows the door off 🙂~Sado
Oh I wholy agree. He's shot Spiderman for god sakes. but likewise I think it depends on how on top of his game Wolverine is playing.
While punisher is one of the best marvel gunmen around.. Some of the things that Wolverine has dodged through have been upsurd.
Not to mention that having good aim isn't a dead certainty that he'll be able to put logan down... Lets look back to some of the times that Wolverine has been shot and just brushed it off like nothing or pounded on skilled marksmen.. get shot by 100 men armed with uzi's and killing them all.. reproducing the same feat against 50 armed men not two hours later. Being shot to hell with explosive adamantium bullets and waiding through them like nothing. running headlong into gunfire from viper without a flinch. Curbing solo. thrashing nuke. Clowning bushman. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head....
and lets not forget that Wolverine's stealth and heightened senses could easily turn this wherehouse scenario around on Frank into a full on cat and mouse game.
Frank can pull some wins here sure.. but trying to take away the majority from Wolverine (given his powers, training, instincts and experience) I believe would have Punisher fighting himself an uphill battle here.
Originally posted by jinzin
Oh I wholy agree. He's shot Spiderman for god sakes. but likewise I think it depends on how on top of his game Wolverine is playing.While punisher is one of the best marvel gunmen around.. Some of the things that Wolverine has dodged through have been upsurd.
Not to mention that having good aim isn't a dead certainty that he'll be able to put logan down... Lets look back to some of the times that Wolverine has been shot and just brushed it off like nothing or pounded on skilled marksmen.. get shot by 100 men armed with uzi's and killing them all.. reproducing the same feat against 50 armed men not two hours later. Being shot to hell with explosive adamantium bullets and waiding through them like nothing. running headlong into gunfire from viper without a flinch. Curbing solo. thrashing nuke. Clowning bushman. Those are just a few examples off the top of my head....
and lets not forget that Wolverine's stealth and heightened senses could easily turn this wherehouse scenario around on Frank into a full on cat and mouse game.
Frank can pull some wins here sure.. but trying to take away the majority from Wolverine (given his powers, training, instincts and experience) I believe would have Punisher fighting himself an uphill battle here.
Those are good point and I see what you're saying. Punisher has shot Spîderman and Wolverine has been in situations that should really be more dangerous than Punisher can think of. All I can say is that it doesnt always work that way. Thor is 1000s of years old but has limited H2H skills compared to other people, nukes can hurt Namor but Cap can still put Namor on the back with punch. Shin Kui has humiliated DP but still got owned by Taskmaster. The fact is Wolverine has a losing record against Punisher and therefore he loses the majority. Also remember Wolverine HF is reduced now.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Those are good point and I see what you're saying. Punisher has shot Spîderman and Wolverine has been in situations that should really be more dangerous than Punisher can think of. All I can say is that it doesnt always work that way. Thor is 1000s of years old but has limited H2H skills compared to other people, nukes can hurt Namor but Cap can still put Namor on the back with punch. Shin Kui has humiliated DP but still got owned by Taskmaster. The fact is Wolverine has a losing record against Punisher and therefore he loses the majority. Also remember Wolverine HF is reduced now.
reduced to what though.. Wolverine's HF was still upsurd back when he first got back his adamantium.
His most ridiculous stunts have only been within the last half a decade or so.
And yeah I think it does work that way a bit... but Punisher doesn't have a winning record against Wolverine..
Rocket launcher- wasn't a fight.
Steam Roller- Plot device where Punisher admitted that nothing else he could do would be capible of actually stopping Wolverine.
Jungle fight- 1 win for Logan, 1 "tie" ended before it even really got rolling.
Mall fight- decisive victory for Logan....
So even if you count the steam roller incident as a win for Punisher that's still a tie record.. 😬
Originally posted by jinzinSo even if you count the steam roller incident as a win for Punisher that's still a tie record.. 😬
reduced to what though.. Wolverine's HF was still upsurd back when he first got back his adamantium.
And yeah I think it does work that way a bit... but Punisher doesn't have a winning record against Wolverine..
Rocket launcher- wasn't a fight.
road roller- Plot device where Punisher admitted that nothing else he could do would be capible of actually stopping Wolverine.
Jungle fight- 1 win for Logan, 1 "tie" ended before it even really got rolling.
Mall fight- decisive victory for Logan....
So even if you count the steam roller incident as a win for Punisher that's still a tie record..
btw, thank you for being reasonable in this debate. i'm surprised how emotional people around here tend to get over their fav characters. hats off.
~Sado
Im not even sure that was a fight. I view scanns of it and it happen in issue 17 and they were not fighting. Punisher shot wolverine with a shotgun in the balls when they were supose to be teammates if not mistaken. Then Logan was attacked by a bunch of midgets. Then after defeating them punisher ran him over with a steam roller in a non fight scenerior if I am not to be mistaken.
Originally posted by Sado22
but wasnt he being dropped by shots to the head now? i saw that scan in one of the threads...can't remember which one. he got sniped in the eye and just dropped like a 9 pin.
Also it bounced around inside his skull. That’s a lot of damage. Also the bullets were designed to kill some one no matter were they were shot. A bullet to the shoulder almost killed Night Crawler if not mistaken. Night Crawler has still not fully healed.
Also that’s a bad example to use. Since Logan been shot there before and it never enter his brain and there’s also the fact the writer forgot that it impossible to achieve since the bullet would be stop by adamatium bones well before it ever reached the bian.
Originally posted by Sado22
no one ever said it was actually. we're just bringing it up as proof that the same could happen again. also it counts as a "fight" since punisher challenged wolverine (along with DD and spidey) *shrug*
Again using one showing as the norm. The likely hood of that happening is awful since well Logan senses will not be completely ignored in this forum match like they were in that Punisher arc.
Originally posted by Sado22logan made the drop on him. and punisher could have incapacitated him if he wanted.....he jsut didn't know that wolverine was a mutant. and one with HF for that matter.
Also that was not there first encounter between the two.
Originally posted by Sado22
which mall fight? 😕
Punisher goes all out. Wolverine more or less toys with him. Fight ends with Punisher on the ground unable to move and Wolverine who completely wrong implies Punisher is gay.
Originally posted by Sado22
steam roller and rocket launcher are decisive for punisher. he had him incapacitated long enough to escape.
Rocket launcher was unable to KO Wolverine or put him down.
Steam roller a plot device which Punisher won’t have. Also the two were not even fighting again one another, all it really shows is Punisher is a cheap so of a ***** who will back stab a partner.