Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What difference does it make???? What kind of insane rationale is this. Obvoulsy they have a scent dont they? If his sense of smell is greater than DDs he would know that some people where there spying on him.....and they were in human form so theres a good chance they had a human scent. Furthermore hasnt Wolverine come across Atlanteans before?
It matters WHAT kind of scent they give off. If they give off a human scent this is still only ONE legitimate example you brought to the table.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What about before he blew him up???? He was still across the street wasnt he???
Again he was indoors, DP was outside.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dunno man I think you better speak for yourself one of the raesons why Wolverine was given a 7/10 majority was because of his senses.
Yes... one of. As in one of MANY. 😐
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Will considering that he may have a venom based suit and the satans claw he could win 10/10.
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneBoth of which have been true in his case and you know it.
Exactly, "he was distracted" is a better excuse than "he knew but didnt do anything".
Originally posted by jinzin
A huge one?
If they smell like fish Wolverine's not exactly gonna be inclined to worry about it when he's in the wilderness next to an ocean... 😐
Has Wolverine been around Atlanteans before wouldnt he know they have a unique scent?
Originally posted by jinzin
It matters WHAT kind of scent they give off. If they give off a human scent this is still only ONE legitimate example you brought to the table.
Well they were in humanform and when Wolverine fought Janus he said whos this token black male superhero with Luke Cages powers.....I mean he said whos this black guy. The only strange thing he fought about the guy was that he had powers and im sure Wolverine has been around Atlanteans and would know they would have a unique scent.
Originally posted by jinzin
Who knows?Again he was indoors, DP was outside.
Help me out, he can sense Cyber from the mountains but cant sense DP across the street?
Originally posted by jinzin
😂
Well he gives Wolverine enough hassle without prep I guess even with that equipment and Ihrs prep Wolverine will still win the majority.
Originally posted by jinzin
Both of which have been true in his case and you know it.
No I dont actually saying he knows is a stupid excuse because if his senses are as accurate as you described he would knopw proximity. Even if he was distracted it doesnt take that much to distract him.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hes beaten Wolverine without prep and has done well without prep. He also has a venom based suit and a glove that is powerful enough to stun the Rhino with one punch through brute force.
What's Frank gonna use to put Wolverine down? A conveniently-placed bulldozer with the key in the ignition? An Odin-enchanted, mutant-crippling, nutsack-shattering baseball bat? A Satan Claw? That hi-tech SHIELD gun that broke the Rhino's ribs and put him in a wheelchair (with one shot)? A mock-Venom suit?
Believe me, I love reading up on The Punisher, and would consider him one of my top 5 favorite characters (along with Wolverine), but lately he's been pulling out a bunch of victories via plot device. Lose that, and Castle's back to his standard arsenal (in fact, it's completely out of character for him to use anything but conventional weaponry), and Wolverine's shrugged off worse more often than not.
True, I'm judging this fight based on classic levels. We haven't seen much of Wolverine's current healing factor levels, so this is still up for debate.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
What's Frank gonna use to put Wolverine down? A conveniently-placed bulldozer with the key in the ignition? An Odin-enchanted, mutant-crippling, nutsack-shattering baseball bat? A Satan Claw? That hi-tech SHIELD gun that broke the Rhino's ribs and put him in a wheelchair (with one shot)? A mock-Venom suit?
Ok so let me get this straight.,.....you saw how powerful the venom suit was and how powerful the satans claw was and you're asking me how is he going to put him down?
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Believe me, I love reading up on The Punisher, and would consider him one of my top 5 favorite characters (along with Wolverine), but lately he's been pulling out a bunch of victories via plot device. Lose that, and Castle's back to his standard arsenal (in fact, it's completely out of character for him to use anything but conventional weaponry), and Wolverine's shrugged off worse more often than not.
Eventhough he hasnt used convetional weaponry in the comics?
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
True, I'm judging this fight based on classic levels. We haven't seen much of Wolverine's current healing factor levels, so this is still up for debate.
Wolverine can now get gunned down by bullets.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok so let me get this straight.,.....you saw how powerful the venom suit was and how powerful the satans claw was and you're asking me how is he going to put him down?
Can you say "Plot Device" ? 😬
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Eventhough he hasnt used convetional weaponry in the comics?
Umm.... Guns and knives are considered conventional weaponry... am I right? 😕
Like I said.... heavy artillery, meaning explosives.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wolverine can now get gunned down by bullets.
Okay, well that's fair enough. Again, I based my decision off the classic versions of both characters. Still, not enough showings to say Wolverine is put down by a barrage of bullets right away.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Can you say "Plot Device" ? 😬
Thats neither here nor there. The items are powerful and he has them.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Umm.... Guns and knives are considered conventional weaponry... am I right? 😕
Satans claw and venom suit are not conventional weapons, he doesnt just have to use guns, bombs and knives.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Okay, well that's fair enough. Again, I based my decision off the classic versions of both characters. Still, not enough showings to say Wolverine is put down by a barrage of bullets right away.
Well he did say his HF hasnt been this worse in years, he also got put down by getting his huts blown off and in the 80s hes been dropped by a bullet to the leg by the Punisher.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats neither here nor there. The items are powerful and he has them.
But he's only used them once, and both were conveniently pulled out of Clarke's ass to help Castle win a fight he hadn't much chance of winning without them. That's what a plot device is, isn't it?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Satans claw and venom suit are not conventional weapons
Right. They're plot devices.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well he did say his HF hasnt been this worse in years, he also got put down by getting his huts blown off and in the 80s hes been dropped by a bullet to the leg by the Punisher.
But if anything, those were low showings for Wolverine, who's been knocked around by top-tiers like Hulk and Wendigo, and eviscerated and/or gutted by people like Sabretooth and Lady Deathstrike. He faired much better against most of those encounters. Now you might say those are high showings for Logan, but even if you were to take his average showings, they'd still be more impressive than getting put down by a few shots.
His healing factor's a pain in the ass to debate, so until we see what its current level CONSISTENTLY can or can't take, it's still up for debate.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
But he's only used them once, and both were conveniently pulled out of Clarke's ass to help Castle win a fight he hadn't much chance of winning without them. That's what a plot device is, isn't it?Right. They're plot devices.
Again irrelevant he has them in his possesion. The grenade launcher wasnt a plot device and to be quite hoesnt even with conventional weapons and prep he could still beat Rhino and probably those aliens. He actually has a good showing against Ulik where he could have beaten him but he would have died in the process.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
But if anything, those were low showings for Wolverine, who's been knocked around by top-tiers like Hulk and Wendigo, and eviscerated and/or gutted by people like Sabretooth and Lady Deathstrike. He faired much better against most of those encounters. Now you might say those are high showings for Logan, but even if you were to take his average showings, they'd still be more impressive than getting put down by a few shots.His healing factor's a pain in the ass to debate, so until we see what its current level CONSISTENTLY can or can't take, it's still up for debate.
Wolverine is an inconsistent character but people with skill have been shown to be able mess Wolverine up. The skill makes up for the brute force....again his HF is reduced hes also been Koed by a shotgun to the head by DP recently. So there is evidence to say that bullets can KO him.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again irrelevant he has them in his possesion. The grenade launcher wasnt a plot device and to be quite hoesnt even with conventional weapons and prep he could still beat Rhino and probably those aliens. He actually has a good showing against Ulik where he could have beaten him but he would have died in the process.
A grenade launcher isn't something that was made up for a specific fight. It's an existing conventional weapon. The grand majority of Frank's history depicts him using nothing but firearms, knives, and explosives. His using a grenade launcher does not deviate from that. That's why the grenade launcher would not be considered a plot device, unless it just magically appeared to save his ass at the last minute.
I was one of the fans who wanted the Punisher to join the big leagues and take on superpowered villains using his regular arsenal, or something a bit more advanced. I'm glad he's finally getting his chance. However, the mock-symbiote and the Satan Claw? It seems a bit much, and out-of-place. Though it makes sense for Frank to use whatever he can grab to get the job done, it still feels out of character. It's like Wolverine grabbing the Blackbird and bombarding everyone of his targets-- it just doesn't happen. Possible? Yeah, but it's not their styles.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
A grenade launcher isn't something that was made up for a specific fight. It's an existing conventional weapon. The grand majority of Frank's history depicts him using nothing but firearms, knives, and explosives. His using a grenade launcher does not deviate from that. That's why the grenade launcher would not be considered a plot device, unless it just magically appeared to save his ass at the last minute.
Yeah I know anyway Im saying it does not matter wether those items are plot devices becuse there is no rule against it on this forum. Its part of his arsenal he can use it however I think the venom based suit is damaged.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I was one of the fans who wanted the Punisher to join the big leagues and take on superpowered villains using his regular arsenal, or something a bit more advanced. I'm glad he's finally getting his chance. However, the mock-symbiote and the Satan Claw? It seems a bit much, and out-of-place. Though it makes sense for Frank to use whatever he can grab to get the job done, it still feels out of character. It's like Wolverine grabbing the Blackbird and bombarding everyone of his targets-- it just doesn't happen. Possible? Yeah, but it's not their styles.
Bad comparison. Wolverine just uses his powers 90 percent of the time. Punisher use his skills and equipment now hes just using more advanced equipment. Its totally in character.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah I know anyway Im saying it does not matter wether those items are plot devices becuse there is no rule against it on this forum. Its part of his arsenal he can use it however I think the venom based suit is damaged.
If it's going to be that way, then what stops Wolverine from taking the Blackbird and annihilating Frank while cruising around in Shiar stealth mode? He has access to it, right?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Bad comparison. Wolverine just uses his powers 90 percent of the time. Punisher use his skills and equipment now hes just using more advanced equipment. It's totally in character.
Again, I'm going to have to disagree. The Punisher sticks to what he knows best, and that's firearms, knives, and explosives. Having Castle use things like the mock-symbiote or the Satan Claw is just as off as Wolverine borrowing one of Iron Man's suits of armor. He's done it once, but that was under the circumstances, much like the SHIELD tech Castle's got a hold of.
I think this is going to wind up just as it always has before-- ugly, and bloody.... except Frank dies in the end.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
If it's going to be that way, then what stops Wolverine from taking the Blackbird and annihilating Frank while cruising around in Shiar stealth mode? He has access to it, right?
That not part of his personal stash. The satans claw is part of Frank Castles personal stash. Thats like you saying that Tony Starks shouldnt use the Hulkbuster armour. 😬
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Again, I'm going to have to disagree. The Punisher sticks to what he knows best, and that's firearms, knives, and explosives. Having Castle use things like the mock-symbiote or the Satan Claw is just as off as Wolverine borrowing one of Iron Man's suits of armor. He's done it once, but that was under the circumstances, much like the
SHIELD tech Castle's got a hold of.
Right so eventhough writers have decided that now hes going to use more hi-tech equipment your going to argue that its out of character? Furthermore Frank Castle has never had somebody of Stus calber with him, at the end of the day he wants to take out supervillains if hes going to use more hi-tech equipment he doesnt care. A steamroller isnt what Frank Castle usually uses to take out opponents he still used it. Hell he even used a pizza once, why wouldnt he use an exoskeleton? Frank Castle uses whatever is useful.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I think this is going to wind up just as it always has before-- ugly, and bloody.... except Frank dies in the end.
Hes beaten Wolverine with prep and wthout prep, he had a good showing against Wolverine while injured.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Right so eventhough writers have decided that now hes going to use more hi-tech equipment your going to argue that its out of character? Furthermore Frank Castle has never had somebody of Stus calber with him, at the end of the day he wants to take out supervillains if hes going to use more hi-tech equipment he doesnt care.Hell even Cap at some point has used hi-tech devices.
If the writers suddenly had Spider-Man using a car, a helicopter, or a jet to get around the city because it was more time-efficient than web-slinging, wouldn't that strike you as a bit odd? It makes more sense. It helps get the job done quicker. But does it fit the character?
Absolutely not, and that's really the only point I want to get across. Cap using hi-tech equipment was circumstantial, and were more than likely plot devices.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hes beaten Wolverine with prep and wthout prep, he had a good showing against Wolverine while injured.
Canon? Penned by Garth Ennis?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That not part of his personal stash. The satans claw is part of Frank Castles personal stash. Thats like you saying that Tony Starks shouldnt use the Hulkbuster armour. 😬
If you want to get technical about it, it's actually Clarke's stash, but Castle has access to it. Wolverine has access to the X-Men's stash. I don't see what the difference is.
Blackbird >>>>>> Satan Claw and mock-symbiote
Therefore, Wolverine WTFpwnz The Punisher.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
If the writers suddenly had Spider-Man using a car, a helicopter, or a jet to get around the city because it was more time-efficient than web-slinging, wouldn't that strike you as a bit odd? It makes more sense. It helps get the job done quicker. But does it fit the character?
Spiderman is not in the habit of using anything else aprt from his web slingers and spider bug. The whole point is that Frank uses anything he can. Why did Frank use a pizza and a steam-roller to take out his opponents. According to your logic he should not have used it because hes used to guns and knives.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Absolutely not, and that's really the only point I want to get across. Cap using hi-tech equipment was circumstantial, and were more than likely plot devices.
Your getting nothing across. He used an energy shield as a replacment for his metal shield.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Canon? Penned by Garth Ennis?
Yes! Yes! 🤨
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
If you want to get technical about it, it's actually Clarke's stash, but Castle has access to it. Wolverine has access to the X-Men's stash. I don't see what the difference is.
Er im under the impression that Stu Clark gave it to him. Nobody 'giving' the Blackbird to Wolverine.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Blackbird >>>>>> Satan Claw and mock-symbioteTherefore, Wolverine WTFpwnz The Punisher.
Wolverines not using the blackbird.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Spiderman is not in the habit of using anything else aprt from his web slingers and spider bug. The whole point is that Frank uses anything he can. Why did Frank use a pizza and a steam-roller to take out his opponents. According to your logic he should not have used it because hes used to guns and knives.
Plot device? Frank should've gotten his ass kicked on BOTH occasions, but those things just happened to be readily available for him. Stab wounds won't affect the Russian in any which way but a readily available steaming-hot pizza will? Gimme a friggin' break.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Your getting nothing across.
Clearly.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He used an energy shield as a replacment for his metal shield.
Plot device.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes! Yes! 🤨
Ennis dumbs down super-powered heroes, so that's not really the most reliable source.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Er im under the impression that Stu Clark gave it to him. Nobody giving the Blackbird to Wolverine.Wolverines not using the blackbird.
Now you're just assuming. Nowhere did it say Clarke gave it to him. He just said something along the lines of "Are you ready to get to work?" It's Clarke's stash, and the Punisher has access to it, just like Wolverine would have access to the X-Men's stuff.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Plot device? Frank should've gotten his ass kicked on BOTH occasions, but those things just happened to be readily available for him. Stab wounds won't affect the Russian in any which way but a readily available steaming-hot pizza will? Gimme a friggin' break.
You missed the point! Is the pizza a gun? Is a steam-roller a gun? Why did Frank use it when its not normally part of his arsenal? Get it?????
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Plot device.
Irrelevant! Where does it say on this forum no plot devices allowed? What matters is that Cap uses his standard shield now and not the enregy shield, if he was still using it now its not a plot device...hell he was using the thing for loads of issues. You cant just come along and call it a plot device. 🤨
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Ennis dumbs down super-powered heroes, so that's not really the most reliable source.
Er my bad. Its not Einnis the fight is from the 80s.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Now you're just assuming. Nowhere did it say Clarke gave it to him. He just said something along the lines of "Are you ready to get to work?" It's Clarke's stash, and the Punisher has access to it, just like Wolverine would have access to the X-Men's stuff.
Nah really? Why did Clark get the stash and what is the main purpose? The main purpose is for Punisher to bust heads. Eventhough Wolverine can use the blackbird its main prupose is not for his personal use but for the X-men.