Punisher vs Wolverine

Started by Creshosk58 pages

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Actually thats my point. Einnis gave good reasons as to why DD and Spiderman could have been beaten.
Good reasons in the opinions of a person whom thinks that punisher can beat Darkseid without knowledge of DC you mean? Yeah that's laughable.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Wolverine did say this about his nuts "Theres no adamantuim down there." Thats your explanation.
Yes, because the adamantium helps with the pain. 🙄

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He still gave legit reasons for why DD, Spiderman and Wolverine lost in CoD.
Legit in the opinions of someone whom thinks that Hulk should give off shockwaves simply from moving...

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Thats not an explanation it a fact. Also there no adamatium a lot of palces were Logan has taken direct hits far more painfull then a nut shot and was not put down.

thats the explanation Wolverine gave about his nuts. Complain to Wolverine not me.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Then there also the fact he taken a nut shot and not eben dropped as well, but of courses we must uses logan at his lowest ennis showings..........

not to mention ennis controdicts his own crap.

really what was the reason? I love to hear it. Becuases I read the issue and it was god awful. Completely ignored there abilities and gave really no logical reason for why they lost.

See below.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Oh yeah and concernind DDs senses. I dont know how far away its was but it was defintely further than THIS.

http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=daredevilvol2009209ze.jpg

Note how DD hears it but only just in time. Yeah he would have heard the missle going off but not neccarily Frank before he fired the missle. DDs senses have limitations. Here he has to concentrate to detect Frank 6 blocks away. (6 blocks up and two over, 6 up two across)

http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doubleedgeomega335tq.jpg

Frank stated that he knew that DD had radar senses so im assuming that it was at a distance were DD would have trouble detecting him.

Spiderman senses also did not go off because he was not aiming at him and he was not in Wolverines vicinity.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I cant be assed with this but heres some stuff on spidermans senses.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3140/feat10sspd4.jpg

note how the door has an explosive trap but Spiderman senses only warn him when she puts the key in, and thus triggering the bomb.

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2306/feat7ssml0.jpg

note how Spiderman is hanging on a rotten rafter but his spider sense only warns him just before its about to break.

Oh and it doesnt matter even if his senses warn him when other people are in danger because he wasnt even in Wolverines vicinity. Spiderman and DD were swinging away in the distance.

You do realize that Garth Ennis is well known for taking a piss on superheroes right? His books that involve other characters are so much of a joke that Frank Tieri hinted at Punisher being gay in the follow up to punisher 16 and 17. http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=990 http://wolverine.x-knights.com/wolverine186.html
So if you want to talk about inconsistency lets talk about writers who are notorious for not handling characters well contributing to the problem, shall we?

so you post link here to prove what we all have been saying for a long time: that writers are inconsistent. and so tieri does a tip of the hat by making frank lose. great.and your point was what really?

so the next time people tell me that wolverine beat frank, i'll just turn around and say that it was a "tip of the hat to garth ennis". sounds fair.

and sine you to like to talk about inconsistency, lets talk about 3 grenades barely scratching wolverine, or how frank had a bike INSIDE a mall.......or my favorite, how frank says that he has nothing to do with logan and comes after him here. oh and the best of all..........he comes at him with a knife and an uzi

if anything teiri's an even bigger dumbass than garth. so now not only do we have to argue about the characters, we can safely turn this into a full fledge writers bash. this thread gets betta and betta.

Stop with the bro stuff.

no way, BRO! 😄

NOTICE: logan has been dropped by less (and has withstood more) than a nutshot. that must be garth ennis' fault too.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
so you post link here to prove what we all have been saying for a long time: that writers are inconsistent. and so tieri does a tip of the hat by making frank lose. great.and your point was what really?

so the next time people tell me that wolverine beat frank, i'll just turn around and say that it was a "tip of the hat to garth ennis". sounds fair.

and sine you to like to talk about inconsistency, lets talk about 3 grenades barely scratching wolverine, or how frank had a bike INSIDE a mall.......or my favorite, how frank says that he has nothing to do with logan and comes after him here. oh and the best of all..........he comes at him with a knife and an uzi

if anything teiri's an even bigger dumbass than garth. so now not only do we have to argue about the characters, we can safely turn this into a full fledge writers bash. this thread gets betta and betta.

no way, BRO! 😄

LOl yeah that actually what a crtic said about that Wolverine issue i'll try and find what the critic has to say. What issue was it again?

Man Zone you suck so bad.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
thats the explanation Wolverine gave about his nuts. Complain to Wolverine not me.
Orhow bout we complain to/about the writer who gave the shitty explination... Oh that would be Garth Einnis...

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
See below.
Six blocks away is now just across the street. Who knew!

Oh look at that, he was ignoring his spider sense...

You bring great evidence against yourself.

Originally posted by Sado22
so you post link here to prove what we all have been saying for a long time: that writers are inconsistent. and so tieri does a tip of the hat by making frank lose. great.and your point was what really?
Are you even trying to comprehend or do you just see a bunch of squiggles when you read posts?

Originally posted by Sado22
so the next time people tell me that wolverine beat frank, i'll just turn around and say that it was a "tip of the hat to garth ennis". sounds fair.
Because seriously... the level of incompetence on your part is astounding... But here I'll spell it out for you:

The making Punisher look gay with the body building magazines was what was being refered to...

Originally posted by Sado22
and sine you to like to talk about inconsistency, lets talk about 3 grenades barely scratching wolverine, or how frank had a bike INSIDE a mall.......
What's so odd about having a bike inside a mall? They've had cars and trucks in malls before. They usually have an enterance which opens up for these sort of things.

Originally posted by Sado22
or my favorite, how frank says that he has nothing to do with logan and comes after him here. oh and the best of all..........he comes at him with a knife and an uzi

if anything teiri's an even bigger dumbass than garth. so now not only do we have to argue about the characters, we can safely turn this into a full fledge writers bash. this thread gets betta and betta.

CAuse of people like you. 🙂

Originally posted by Sado22
no way, BRO! 😄

NOTICE: logan has been dropped by less (and has withstood more) than a nutshot. that must be garth ennis' fault too.

Naw, just tht Einnis is a hack when it comes to other characters. 🙂

The critic does actually say that Einnis writing of Wolverine is bad but see what he has to say about Wolverine 186

http://www.thexaxis.com/wolverine/wolverine186.htm

Ah. This one.

Wolverine #186 sounded like a bad idea from the moment it was announced, but the reality is many times worse. It's supposed to be a response to Punisher #16-17, in which a hapless guest-starring Wolverine was humiliatingly destroyed by writer Garth Ennis.

Ennis' evisceration of Wolverine in Punisher is very far from his best work. Its version of Wolverine was a deliberate conflation of all the cliches that had dominated the character for years - the endless tough-guy talk, the stream of internal monologue and so forth. It was a calculated piece of bad writing, parodying and mimicking the worst and least inspired Wolverine stories of the last ten years, and showing how one of Marvel's better characters could so easily degenerate into a ridiculous collection of tics.

And then beating the living shit out of him, in the slapstick ultraviolence style which characterises black comedy approach that dominates Ennis' take on the Punisher - one which recognises the obvious absurdity of the character and deals with it by playing it as a consciously ludicrous wish-fulfilment fantasy, for readers to laugh with rather than seriously endorsing.

So, Frank Tieri wishes to answer back on behalf of his character.

[Now, if I was a talent on the level of Frank Tieri, I think the last thing I would do is invite direct comparisons with Garth Ennis. On a certain level, I almost have to admire Tieri's insane disregard for common sense in even trying. Nonetheless, I will resist the temptation to draw direct comparisons. They would give the unwarranted impression that Tieri is in the same league. And let's be blunt, Ennis could phone in a script from the pub at 2.30am, and it would still be better than 99% of Tieri's published output. If I were to say that Tieri was the poor man's Garth Ennis, it would be an insult to the taste of Big Issue vendors.

The issue consists, in its entirety, of a fight between Wolverine and the Punisher. The nominal basis is that the Punisher isn't very happy that Wolverine installed a new mob leader in the previous storyline, but that's just an excuse for the fight. Wolverine delivers a rather dry argument to the effect that the Punisher is a nutcase who shouldn't be taken seriously, thereby missing the point of the Punisher's comic by a million miles. Finally, Tieri's attempt at revenge on behalf of his character is to tell us that the Punisher is gay.

Tieri manages to take aim at a barn door target in the form of the Punisher, and fail to land a single hit. His criticism of the character is already implicit in the way the character's been written for years, save for that embarrassing period in the mid-nineties when they seemed to be taking him at face value. The point of the Punisher is that he's a lunatic obsessive on a futile mission; Tieri seems to have missed the fact that this is a deliberate feature of the concept. Moreover, Tieri proves unable to dramatise any of his points. His story is just a mediocre fight scene with two people talking at one another. And protestations of the importance of moral ambiguity sit uneasily coming from a writer like Tieri, whose back catalogue contains some of the most simplistic nonsense Marvel have published in recent years.

Having failed to make any convincing response to Ennis at all, Tieri finally resorts to "Oh yeah? Well, your character's gay."

You almost feel sorry for the poor sod. It's like watching a comedian die on stage. This is quite, quite terrible. It lacks intelligence, insight, wit, imagination... it's totally worthless. It's downright moronic. Moronic can work when it's cut with something a little cleverer - look at Ennis. But this is just the pure stuff, utterly moronic from start to finish.

Terry and Rachel Dodson are hopelessly miscast with the Punisher and Wolverine in the first place, but this still represents a month of their lives they could have spent on something more productive.

This is horrible. A self-indulgent in-joke of no merit whatsoever, which should never have made it past pitch stage, let alone onto the shelves.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
The critic does actually say that Einnis writing of Wolverine is bad but see what he has to say about Wolverine 186

http://www.thexaxis.com/wolverine/wolverine186.htm

Ah. This one.

Wolverine #186 sounded like a bad idea from the moment it was announced, but the reality is many times worse. It's supposed to be a response to Punisher #16-17, in which a hapless guest-starring Wolverine was humiliatingly destroyed by writer Garth Ennis.

Ennis' evisceration of Wolverine in Punisher is very far from his best work. Its version of Wolverine was a deliberate conflation of all the cliches that had dominated the character for years - the endless tough-guy talk, the stream of internal monologue and so forth. It was a calculated piece of bad writing, parodying and mimicking the worst and least inspired Wolverine stories of the last ten years, and showing how one of Marvel's better characters could so easily degenerate into a ridiculous collection of tics.

And then beating the living shit out of him, in the slapstick ultraviolence style which characterises black comedy approach that dominates Ennis' take on the Punisher - one which recognises the obvious absurdity of the character and deals with it by playing it as a consciously ludicrous wish-fulfilment fantasy, for readers to laugh with rather than seriously endorsing.

So, Frank Tieri wishes to answer back on behalf of his character.

[Now, if I was a talent on the level of Frank Tieri, I think the last thing I would do is invite direct comparisons with Garth Ennis. On a certain level, I almost have to admire Tieri's insane disregard for common sense in even trying. Nonetheless, I will resist the temptation to draw direct comparisons. They would give the unwarranted impression that Tieri is in the same league. [B] And let's be blunt, Ennis could phone in a script from the pub at 2.30am, and it would still be better than 99% of Tieri's published output. If I were to say that Tieri was the poor man's Garth Ennis, it would be an insult to the taste of Big Issue vendors.

The issue consists, in its entirety, of a fight between Wolverine and the Punisher. The nominal basis is that the Punisher isn't very happy that Wolverine installed a new mob leader in the previous storyline, but that's just an excuse for the fight. Wolverine delivers a rather dry argument to the effect that the Punisher is a nutcase who shouldn't be taken seriously, thereby missing the point of the Punisher's comic by a million miles. Finally, Tieri's attempt at revenge on behalf of his character is to tell us that the Punisher is gay.

Tieri manages to take aim at a barn door target in the form of the Punisher, and fail to land a single hit. His criticism of the character is already implicit in the way the character's been written for years, save for that embarrassing period in the mid-nineties when they seemed to be taking him at face value. The point of the Punisher is that he's a lunatic obsessive on a futile mission; Tieri seems to have missed the fact that this is a deliberate feature of the concept. Moreover, Tieri proves unable to dramatise any of his points. His story is just a mediocre fight scene with two people talking at one another. And protestations of the importance of moral ambiguity sit uneasily coming from a writer like Tieri, whose back catalogue contains some of the most simplistic nonsense Marvel have published in recent years.

Having failed to make any convincing response to Ennis at all, Tieri finally resorts to "Oh yeah? Well, your character's gay."

You almost feel sorry for the poor sod. It's like watching a comedian die on stage. This is quite, quite terrible. It lacks intelligence, insight, wit, imagination... it's totally worthless. It's downright moronic. Moronic can work when it's cut with something a little cleverer - look at Ennis. But this is just the pure stuff, utterly moronic from start to finish.

Terry and Rachel Dodson are hopelessly miscast with the Punisher and Wolverine in the first place, but this still represents a month of their lives they could have spent on something more productive.

This is horrible. A self-indulgent in-joke of no merit whatsoever, which should never have made it past pitch stage, let alone onto the shelves. [/B]

And? How does this make Einnis not a hack? 🙂

But thanks for spamming the thread. doped

I dont really give a damn. The point is that if you think Einnis is bad Tieri is worse.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont really give a damn. The point is that if you think Einnis is bad Tieri is worse.
And way to miss the point of the comic. He was intentionally making a jab at Einnis due to how poorly Einnis handled Wolverine.

But hey lets ignore that shall we? Let's go back to manipulating ourselves over punisher. 🙂

Originally posted by Creshosk
And way to miss the point of the comic. He was intentionally making a jab at Einnis due to how poorly Einnis handled Wolverine.

But hey lets ignore that shall we? Let's go back to manipulating ourselves over punisher. 🙂

*shrug* Punisher still wins....and maybe it was crap writing like the guy said, considering that the critic stated that Einnis is a much better writer.

phoney, spare us your crummy one liners. my 3 year old cousin can do better than this. or you the queer who has been socking sam z? 😆

Orhow bout we complain to/about the writer who gave the shitty explination... Oh that would be Garth Einnis...

its like i'm talking a nagging toddler who just refuses to listen to you...

Are you even trying to comprehend or do you just see a bunch of squiggles when you read posts?

i could say the same about you posting something that has already been decided. and stop the name calling. last time i checked, you were the little girl going and complaining to the mods 😬

The making Punisher look gay with the body building magazines was what was being refered to.

read it again, son. read it again.

What's so odd about having a bike inside a mall? They've had cars and trucks in malls before. They usually have an enterance which opens up for these sort of things.

did you read that issue? 😐
cuz damn...

Naw, just tht Einnis is a hack when it comes to other characters.

and that we already know if anything teiri's an even bigger dumbass and comes up with even more bull. phantom's above post proves it.

And way to miss the point of the comic. He was intentionally making a jab at Einnis due to how poorly Einnis handled Wolverine.

only it backfired horribly and he got his own ass crucified for it. the only one whose missing the point is baby boy.

~Sado

Wolverine 8/10

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*shrug* Punisher still wins....and maybe it was crap writing like the guy said, considering that the critic stated that Einnis is a much better writer.
Ogf course the punisher wins, the punisher can take on the entire DCU after all can't he? You don't even need to know anything aobut the DCU to know that Punisher wins. 🙄

Originally posted by Sado22
phoney, spare us your crummy one liners. my 3 year old cousin can do better than this. or you the queer who has been socking sam z? 😆

its like i'm talking a nagging toddler who just refuses to listen to you...

Now you know how the rest of the forum feels about you. You don't listen. You stick your fingers in your ears and chant tht Punisher beats everybody.

Did you notice how we were talking about it being a crappy excuse that Phantom says that Wolverine gave? Who was writing Wolverine's script?

Oh that's right it was Einnis. So whoi came up with the crappy excuse? Oh that's right it was Einnis. so who's the writer who's a hack with other people's characters... oh that's right it's einnis again.

But hey lets just give credit to the character for the crappy writing.

Originally posted by Sado22
i could say the same about you posting something that has already been decided. and stop the name calling. last time i checked, you were the little girl going and complaining to the mods 😬
And what name did I call you? Like you just called me a little girl.

You do know that's why the report buttons exist.

Originally posted by Sado22
read it again, son. read it again.
I did... You OBVIOUSLY didn't comprehend it. Surprise surprise.

Originally posted by Sado22
did you read that issue? 😐
cuz damn...[/b[]/quote] Yeah, you obviously didn't.

[QUOTE=10400895]Originally posted by Sado22
[B]and that we already know if anything teiri's an even bigger dumbass and comes up with even more bull. phantom's above post proves it.

Because one person didn't get the point of the comic? Oh that's wonderful proof. 🙄

And how does this make Einnis not a hack? Aside from you commiting the Et tu fallacy?

Originally posted by Sado22
only it backfired horribly and he got his own ass crucified for it. the only one whose missing the point is baby boy.
Why'd you just call yourself baby boy?

this thread has run its course, imo, unless someone brings something else to the table, i'll be closing it, the amount of reports alone could justify a closing...

Originally posted by Raoul
the amount of reports alone could justify a closing...
you get a lot of reports on this thread? seems like only 4 people are still debating in this thread. 😕

Originally posted by Creshosk
And? How does this make Einnis not a hack? 🙂

But thanks for spamming the thread. doped


If any thing that review proves he is a hack.

I mean the review pritty much states he purposly writes bad a story and characterization of guest stars within the story.

just show more how bias and silly he can be.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
you get a lot of reports on this thread? seems like only 4 people are still debating in this thread. 😕

wierd right?

I just waiitng for red whatever he calls to come barging in the thread and go Battlehammer an idiot and he also the one sending out warnings.

lol that kid always says that even though I never warn any one.

If it gets closed it will be made again.

Originally posted by phoney
If it gets closed it will be made again.

and then it'll be closed again and the maker warned...