Gears of War 2!!!

Started by NonSensi-Klown31 pages
Originally posted by BackFire
[B]Did you miss the part where there's a civil war in Gears 2?

Which hardly mattered because at the end ofthe day you ended up killing any locust you saw just the same.

You seem to confuse potential for a good story with a good story.

No I don't. I never said Halo had a good story. Matter of fact,

Halo's twists weren't "good" twists, but it had twists and underlying themes none-the-less.

My posts are strictly referring to Halo vs. Gears only. Not in general. I am aware that Halo's story is lack-luster, but compared to Gears' it's sex.

If you take out Halo 2 and all the stuff they did in that (which they subsequently dropped universally in Halo 3)

Halo 3 didn't "drop" the story it just finished it. In a trilogy it's the 1st one's job to introduce the story, it's the 2nd one's job to extrapolate on it and introduce the majority of the story changing twists, and it's the third installments job to wrap it all up, which Halo 3 did, and did soundly.

then the story becomes just as simple as Gears'.

But why would you "take out all they did in Halo 2" at all? It's a trilogy. If you want to compare one game at a time Halo 2beats out Gears 2 as well.

You seem to think that a complex story is inherently better than a simple one. It isn't. But that doesn't really matter since Halo's story is about as complicated as first grade reading material.

And if that's true, Gears' story is about Kindergarten level, maybe Pre-School.

What you seem to think is that I think Halo's story is "good". I don't. I just think it's better and more of a "story" than Gears has. Halo does, at the least, have something that you can take away from it.

No, to reiterate both story's are crappy in comparison to games that tell good stories or have good character development.

I never said otherwise, or even implied such.

It says a lot about a game when the commercials for the games give off a better sense of atmosphere and despair than either of the games themselves. The Halo commercials suggest a sense of somberness and maturity that the actual games never even attempt to reach, because they can't, the writers aren't talented enough.

Opinion. As I was telling Zack, I genuinely felt bad when Johnson died, even though I knew he was going to from the beginning and I didn't allow myself to be attached to that character. I felt bad when Miranda died and when I didn't see the ending cutscene because I skipped the credits and I thought the Chief had died, I felt bad then too. And I'm not the only person in the world who feels that way. Keep in mind that, as I said, I didn't give a shit when Aerith died, so that says something.

Halo's storyline isn't as good as many others games are. But to state that Halo objectively didn't have any somber moments or couldn't create any is flawed. If you were just stating how you felt when playing it, my mistake.

No, that's not what I meant at all, you should read what I say properly.

Read properly?

I know how to read and I read it perfectly fine. haermm Just because I didn't grasp the true meaning of your words, which can be interpreted differently, doesn't mean I didn't read it properly.

The world of Halo is not coherent. Each level feels like a disparate level made purely to create a glorified shooting gallery. It doesn't feel like a part of a cohesive singular world.

... it's not a cohesive singular world. There are different habitats following different structures and lay-outs. However I get what you're saying, and I agree to an extent.

There's the ice level, and then there's the jungle level and so on. Each level feels like a level, not a segment of the same universe, they don't flow.

That's my point from before. So I did read it right, apparently. It's not the games fault that it doesn't flow like that. The reason why there's different habitats (jungle, desert, ice), is because they're fighting over the course of an entire Galaxy, and thus over entire planets. HALO is a machine that is essentially a planet; it has it's own polar caps, magnetic fields, atmosphere, habitats, etc. Considering that the war is a galactic war, which involves space ships that can travel across an entire planet in minutes and can drop troops off anywhere, of course fighting wouldn't be confined to one city, or part of the world. That wouldn't make sense. That's like hating on Star Wars because in the beginning of RotJ the setting is on a desert, than the next minute they're on a big space station, than the next minute they're fighting on a jungle planet. It's a galaxy wide event, man. Considering that all of Gears of War 1 was spent in one city, of course the environment will look similar.

It has shit to do with the architecture of the buildings, it simply has to do with the quality of the level design. This shouldn't come as a shock, Halo's level design ranges from piss poor to mediocre and it's known as one of the consistently weak points throughout the entire series. Gears' levels segway from one to another in a convincing and effective way, each level feels like it's part of the larger world as a whole, not that it was simply created when you put the disk in the player.

Halo is structured the way it is for the reasons above, but I agree that some parts of it are shit, like the flood levels. Gears levels are more realistic but I found a lot of it to be boring and repetitive. The interior of the building all looked basically the same with few changes, for example. But that's not counting it against it necessarily.

[quote]Everything about Halo is less real. From the atmosphere (for a world about on the brink of annihilation your fellow soldiers sure are in high spirits; they constantly crack jokes and engage and 1337 speak) to the look (as AC said, it looks like a rave night club more than a war torn galaxy) to the settings to the characters. [/quote[

It is less real. Doesn't mean it's worse though.

Hahahaha, "Halo's story is sex compared to Gears.", "Halo has something you can take away from it.".

Like what? I guarantee you that anything you can take from Halo, someone can take from Gears.

There's no story element in Halo's three games that is any more complicated or intricate than in Gears. You being emotionally attached to the characters means nothing besides that's the experience you had. That doesn't mean Halo's story is better. There's as much to Halo as there is to Gears.

Your remark about Halo being able to create sombre moments, or having created any, is as subjective as him saying that it can't. You're judging the stories the wrong way. "Halo's had more to it because I got more invested in it and took more from it.", seems to be your argument, and that's not true. Your emotional investment doesn't make it a more intricate story. There are people out there who say Good Charlotte lyrics saved their lives, they took something away from it. Point proven.

Originally posted by Spartan005
Oh of course I'm a fanboy, I'll admit that. Why else would my name be Spartan005 and why would I have an avatar and signature with the Master Chief in it? I love the story to Halo, I love the music, I love the books, the setting, the characters... I'm pretty much obsessed.

To answer your question (and I'm seriously not trying to start an argument here) I think that the first two Halos probably were over hyped. Looking back Halo did have repetive levels, and Halo two did have a sucky ending and a somewhat short campaign overall. But believe it or not, and trust me this is not bullshit.... I wasn't even that excited about Halo 3 until maybe a week or two before it was released. I saw the trailer and thought it didn't even look that great even though I kept telling myself that it HAD to be awesome. When I finally beat the game, I called my best friend (also a huge Halo fan) and said "I just beat Halo 3 - it was actually better than the original" I thought the game was flawless. The gameplay was better, the graphics, the music, and the insane amount of new environments made Halo 3 the best out of the trilogy for me.

So did I think Halo 3 had too much hype? maybe for others but absolutely not for me.

You think the millions and millions of dollars spend on press and internet promotion/coverage, the celebrity endorsements, the worldwide celebrity launch parties etc, truly reflect how good the game is?

If so, then you really are a fanboy. Then again, you've admitted to it. So getting you to admit that would be like asking Hitler if he though he went about his beliefs the wrong way.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]Like what? I guarantee you that anything you can take from Halo, someone can take from Gears.

Really? What I got from the Covenant side of the story at least is the danger of having a blind faith to any object or idea, in that it can be used against you. Case in point, the Prophet's manipulation of the Elites and the Brutes and every other life form serving in the Covanenent. When the Arbiter kills the heretic leader, who realized the truth, the wool was slowly pulled over his eyes, and he realized that the Elites blind faith in the rings and Prophet's would ultimately lead them to destruction, which it almost did.

Hardly an original concept, but a concept that was displayed through the game none-the-less.

You being emotionally attached to the characters means nothing besides that's the experience you had.

Well if the game managed to make me emotionally attached to the characters even though I tried to not be then that means that the game succeeded, since that was Bungie's aim.

That doesn't mean Halo's story is better. There's as much to Halo as there is to Gears.

Depends on who you ask.

Halo 3's story line blows and Gears 2's story line is better.

Nah.

Yeah, by far.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Really? What I got from the Covenant side of the story at least is the danger of having a blind faith to any object or idea, in that it can be used against you. Case in point, the Prophet's manipulation of the Elites and the Brutes and every other life form serving in the Covanenent. When the Arbiter kills the heretic leader, who realized the truth, the wool was slowly pulled over his eyes, and he realized that the Elites blind faith in the rings and Prophet's would ultimately lead them to destruction, which it almost did.

Hardly an original concept, but a concept that was displayed through the game none-the-less.

Yeah, and Gears is a tale about how desperate people get in the heart of war, how conflict changes people when everything you call home or everyone you love is destroyed or ruined in the midst of it all. How the very desire to survive and progress exists in every single being, even monsters, but manifests in different ways.

See? I can extract meanings that happen to sound deep from "Bad guys invade and are a thread, heroes have to rise and win.". That's essentially Gears and Halo.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Well if the game managed to make me emotionally attached to the characters even though I tried to not be then that means that the game succeeded, since that was Bungie's aim.

So? That doesn't make Halo's plot objectively deeper or better. It means you got into it and enjoyed it more, PERSONALLY extracting things. Your argument seemed to be that Halo had an objectively more complex story, it doesn't.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Depends on who you ask.

Well, no, it doesn't.

You subjectively taking something out of the game's plot doesn't mean there's more there than Gears. You've not given any objective arguments. I suggest you change it to "Personally, I found Halo's story to be a lot more involving.", because that's what you did. You've not proven Halo to be deeper than Gears objectively, and the reasons you've given for believing so are, as I said, subjective extractions.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
[B]Yeah, by far.

Nah.

Yeah, and Gears is a tale about how desperate people get in the heart of war, how conflict changes people when everything you call home or everyone you love is destroyed or ruined in the midst of it all. How the very desire to survive and progress exists in every single being, even monsters, but manifests in different ways.

Cool. I'd never thought about it that way. Kudos to you.

See? I can extract meanings that happen to sound deep from "Bad guys invade and are a thread, heroes have to rise and win.". That's essentially Gears and Halo.

They are deep. That's a very deep and thoughtful meaning from a video game.
I suppose then that it's a bit shoddy to overly simplify everything, then.

So? That doesn't make Halo's plot objectively deeper or better. It means you got into it and enjoyed it more, PERSONALLY extracting things. Your argument seemed to be that Halo had an objectively more complex story, it doesn't.

Well, no, it doesn't.

You subjectively taking something out of the game's plot doesn't mean there's more there than Gears. You've not given any objective arguments. I suggest you change it to "Personally, I found Halo's story to be a lot more involving.", because that's what you did. You've not proven Halo to be deeper than Gears objectively, and the reasons you've given for believing so are, as I said, subjective extractions.

Where did I ever state that what I've been saying is objective? I think it's incredibly foolish to try to say that one story is "objectively better" then another considering "better" is subjective anyway. I had thought by this time after the various discussions you and I have had that you'd know that I hardly ever talk outside of my own opinion, man.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Nah.

Cool. I'd never thought about it that way. Kudos to you.

They are deep. That's a very deep and thoughtful meaning from a video game.
I suppose then that it's a bit shoddy to overly simplify everything, then.

They're not, though. They're not deep.

They're actually two of the most simple, overused, humanity-backslapping premises in modern art. It's actually such a cliche that it's beyond belief, that's the point.

However, if you wanted to make something seem deeper than it is, you can. So to say Halo's story is "sex" compared to Gears is actually ridiculous. They're both minimal.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Where did I ever state that what I've been saying is objective? I think it's incredibly foolish to try to say that one story is "objectively better" then another considering "better" is subjective anyway. I had thought by this time after the various discussions you and I have had that you'd know that I hardly ever talk outside of my own opinion, man.

Well then you shouldn't have stated so matter of factly that Halo's story was more complex.

-AC

Just because I didn't say "imo" doesn't mean I stated it "matter of factly". Matter of factly would be like,

"Halo's story is just better, period. It's not even debatable. Gears story is just factually crap."

That, is a matter of fact statement. Saying "Gears story sucks compared to Halo's," or "Halo's story is better", is not factual. That's you being paranoid. 😬

They're not, though. They're not deep.

They're actually two of the most simple, overused, humanity-backslapping premises in modern art. It's actually such a cliche that it's beyond belief, that's the point.

However, if you wanted to make something seem deeper than it is, you can. So to say Halo's story is "sex" compared to Gears is actually ridiculous. They're both minimal.

Being cliche does not mean that it's not deep.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Which hardly mattered because at the end ofthe day you ended up killing any locust you saw just the same.

We don't know if it will matter, the story isn't finished yet, there will be a third game to finish the story.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
My posts are strictly referring to Halo vs. Gears only. Not in general. I am aware that Halo's story is lack-luster, but compared to Gears' it's sex.

Nah, compared to Gears it's pretty much just as mediocre. Both are generic and predictable, both follow the same tired trails.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Halo 3 didn't "drop" the story it just finished it. In a trilogy it's the 1st one's job to introduce the story, it's the 2nd one's job to extrapolate on it and introduce the majority of the story changing twists, and it's the third installments job to wrap it all up, which Halo 3 did, and did soundly.

No, it dropped it. Why did they drop it? Because they realized it was too difficult for them, they bit off more than they could chew with Halo 2's ambition and dumbed it down for Halo 3.

For proof, look at the disparity between the games. Halo 1 is a simple "oh shit there's aliens kill them all" story, in Halo 2 they tried to do more and I give them credit for that, but they didn't have the writing skills to pull it off, and so they reverted back to the simplicity of the first game for Halo 3.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
But why would you "take out all they did in Halo 2" at all? It's a trilogy. If you want to compare one game at a time Halo 2beats out Gears 2 as well.

I'd take it out because Bungie took it out, they admitted that they were too ambitious with Halo 2 and simplified things for the third game. And Halo 2 didn't beat out Gears 2. They both attempted to expand on the first game in similar ways.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
And if that's true, Gears' story is about Kindergarten level, maybe Pre-School.

Nah, also first grade.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
What you seem to think is that I think Halo's story is "good". I don't. I just think it's better and more of a "story" than Gears has. Halo does, at the least, have something that you can take away from it.

It does? What's that? As AC said, anything you could take away from Halo you could take away from Gears.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Opinion. As I was telling Zack, I genuinely felt bad when Johnson died, even though I knew he was going to from the beginning and I didn't allow myself to be attached to that character. I felt bad when Miranda died and when I didn't see the ending cutscene because I skipped the credits and I thought the Chief had died, I felt bad then too. And I'm not the only person in the world who feels that way. Keep in mind that, as I said, I didn't give a shit when Aerith died, so that says something.

You feeling bad doesn't mean anything. Objectively there isn't that somber sense throughout, it's usually corny and goofy. Lazily killing a character for a cheap ineffective heart poke doesn't make up for the rest of the game sounding like the end of the world is some fun filled amusement park ride to everyone surrounding the Master Chief. There was no consistency in tone. A telltale sign of poor storytelling. Gears has that consistency, at least.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Halo's storyline isn't as good as many others games are. But to state that Halo objectively didn't have any somber moments or couldn't create any is flawed. If you were just stating how you felt when playing it, my mistake.

No, I was stating how I didn't feel when playing it. The game is too shallow to have any genuine emotional connection unless it was garnered by hype and the commercials.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Read properly?

I know how to read and I read it perfectly fine. haermm Just because I didn't grasp the true meaning of your words, which can be interpreted differently, doesn't mean I didn't read it properly.

It does. I said Gears' world felt plausible and felt like it could be a real place and that it didn't feel like random levels generated to shoot things on, it suspended disbelief. You then retorted that I meant the world of Halo was somehow to fantastical or something. A fantastical world can still be very cohesive and coherent. It can still feel like a real place and draw you in. Perfect example is Bioshock, game about an underwater city, about as silly sounding as you can get, but it's one of the most well realized gaming worlds in existence. Half Life 2 games as well. Criticizing Halo's levels has nothing to do with it being too futuristic or spread across multiple worlds, it simply has to do with them not feeling like real places, again, they feel like levels in a shooting gallery, nothing more. Has shit to do with anything else.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
That's my point from before. So I did read it right, apparently. It's not the games fault that it doesn't flow like that. The reason why there's different habitats (jungle, desert, ice), is because they're fighting over the course of an entire Galaxy, and thus over entire planets. HALO is a machine that is essentially a planet; it has it's own polar caps, magnetic fields, atmosphere, habitats, etc. Considering that the war is a galactic war, which involves space ships that can travel across an entire planet in minutes and can drop troops off anywhere, of course fighting wouldn't be confined to one city, or part of the world. That wouldn't make sense. That's like hating on Star Wars because in the beginning of RotJ the setting is on a desert, than the next minute they're on a big space station, than the next minute they're fighting on a jungle planet. It's a galaxy wide event, man. Considering that all of Gears of War 1 was spent in one city, of course the environment will look similar.

It's absolutely the game's faults. Star Wars doesn't get criticized because it's universe and setting feels like a realized place, it sucks you in and makes you forget that these are sets. Halo does not. The excuse you use for Halo is weak anyways. In Halo 3 the first 5 or so levels all take place on earth, basically they are meant to flow from one level to the next. But there is no sense of coherency, they each just feel like a level and nothing more. I never forget that they were made just to shoot things in. That's simply because Bungie doesn't have very good level design.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Halo is structured the way it is for the reasons above, but I agree that some parts of it are shit, like the flood levels. Gears levels are more realistic but I found a lot of it to be boring and repetitive. The interior of the building all looked basically the same with few changes, for example. But that's not counting it against it necessarily.

Repetitive? Is this a joke? The first two halo games have some of the most notoriously repetitive levels in existence. They literally copy/paste areas over and over again in those games. You cross a bridge and fight through a room only to cross another bridge that looks identical to the last bridge and fight through another room that looks identical.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
It is less real. Doesn't mean it's worse though.

It's less believable, and yes, that does make it worse. It doesn't suspend disbelief as well, which is central to having a decent gaming experience.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Just because I didn't say "imo" doesn't mean I stated it "matter of factly". Matter of factly would be like,

"Halo's story is just better, period. It's not even debatable. Gears story is just factually crap."

[b]That, is a matter of fact statement. Saying "Gears story sucks compared to Halo's," or "Halo's story is better", is not factual. That's you being paranoid. 😬

[/b]

Saying something matter-of-factly is to say it with an air of objectivity, without explicitly saying it.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Being cliche does not mean that it's not deep.

That's sort of precisely what it means.

Something that was once true, valued and important/significant, but through overuse, has become hollow and meaningless.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
.". Your favourite series got by on using multiplayer as an excuse.

-AC

And Gears didnt?

Originally posted by BackFire

Repetitive? Is this a joke? The first two halo games have some of the most notoriously repetitive levels in existence. They literally copy/paste areas over and over again in those games. You cross a bridge and fight through a room only to cross another bridge that looks identical to the last bridge and fight through another room that looks identical.
[/B]

I love it when people say a game is repetitive. 😆 😆 Ladies and gentleman, every game is repetitive.

I side with Halo for two reasons.
1. Its more Epic
2. It has characters I can actually care about because I find them to be more believable(which is funny since ones a cyborg). I'm sure I would care about Marcus and company if I were jacked up on steroids but I'm not. Someone said it best, "Master Chief is a hero" and unfortunately Marcus isn't because hes just too over the top. Hell Cortona is an android but shes more human than Anya, and look at Johnson and tell me he isn't more believable a commander than Hoffman.

And AC, I think its real funny that you think Halo's weapons are childish when Gears has the Lancer. Wow, a weapon with a chainsaw bayonet, that's not fvcking retarded at all. 🙄

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You don't see the double standard because it's not there. I'm not saying Gears' story is any better than Halo, I'm not acting like Gears is without flaw, and I'm not acting like Halo is the absolute worst game you could ever play.

Halo wasn't a sleeper hit, what the hell are you talking about? Halo was the most hyped game, it was the reason a lot of people even bought the Xbox, it was a launch title. You can't even compare the hype Halo had at first with Gears, because Gears had hardly any. Halo was intended to be the franchise of Xbox before it even got released. It was always meant to be the main, big series. Gears wasn't.

-AC


I have to disagree with you on this one. The first Halo could be considered a sleeper hit. Sure it was a launch title, but people/critics expected it to be a decent shooter (which it was) that people would forget about a while after it got released. Nobody expected it to get the praise it did. Whether that praise was justified or not, is a matter of opinion.

Gears on the other hand, I remember hearing about in 2005. I saw an E3-Special of a show I watch sometimes that same year, and the presenters were raving about it. Most big sites and magazines expected Gears to be awesome.

Gears' story line is kindegarten level? Screw you Nonsensi-Klown! You don't know jack ****! 😠

Originally posted by Slay
I have to disagree with you on this one. The first Halo could be considered a sleeper hit. Sure it was a launch title, but people/critics expected it to be a decent shooter (which it was) that people would forget about a while after it got released. Nobody expected it to get the praise it did. Whether that praise was justified or not, is a matter of opinion.

Gears on the other hand, I remember hearing about in 2005. I saw an E3-Special of a show I watch sometimes that same year, and the presenters were raving about it. Most big sites and magazines expected Gears to be awesome.

To be honest I didn't even buy Halo when I bought my X-box. I purchased DOA3 instead. I only bought Halo until a friend of mine talked to me about it and so I decided to check it out. Then ever since I first played it I became a fan.

I followed Gears of War ever since Epic first mentioned it. I pre-ordered it 5 months before release and I remember being extremely anxious about it by reading and watching everything regarding Gears--After all I was waiting for Halo 3 which would take another year and I was craving a damned killerapp for the 360. The game out and I became a fan as well.

Anyways that is my story.

Gears 2 is better than Halo 3. Does Halo 3 have giant monsters you can ride on? Does Halo 3 have you ripping creatures limb from limb with a chainsaw? Does Halo 3 really give you that much hype?

I don't see how any of you think Halo 3's story line is better than Gears 2. Halo 3's campaign made me want to hurt someone. Halo 1 and Halo 2 had better story lines than 3.

Originally posted by Nemesis X
Gears 2 is better than Halo 3. Does Halo 3 have giant monsters you can ride on? Does Halo 3 have you ripping creatures limb from limb with a chainsaw? Does Halo 3 really give you that much hype?

Since when did that make a game better than another game? It doesn't...

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I don't see how any of you think Halo 3's story line is better than Gears 2. Halo 3's campaign made me want to hurt someone. Halo 1 and Halo 2 had better story lines than 3.

As much as I love Gears 1 and 2 and Halo 1-3, in my honest to god opinion, I would take Halo's story line over Gears story line. Although, I enjoyed both very much.

You could say that Halo 1-2's story line is better. Halo 3's however makes me feel empty inside. I'm not trying to give Halo crap. I just don't like part 3. The only thing you can ever find amusing on that game would be the multiplayer. Beating the crap out of gamers online never gets old (unless of course you feel like you should play a game by yourself and not with anyone else).