Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Generalities aren't proof. Prove that this particular something - wielding a GL ring - increases in a linear rate or an exponential rate, the same for everyone. Prove that it increases and doesn't plateau. Prove that if it does plateau that the level of the plateau is the same for everyone. These are claims you're making, provide proof positive.
Rubbish. Next time time a character gets water thrown other him im going to have to prove that he would get wet? 👆
Originally posted by Phantom ZoneYou're stating that Punisher with a hundred years time will become a top ten GL.
Rubbish. Next time time a character gets water thrown other him im going to have to prove that he would get wet? 👆
You have nothing to base this upon except a false premise that there's some sort of exponential correlation to time with effectiveness of GL rings for anyone and everyone who gets one, and that there's no plateau or that the plateau is equally high for all GLs.
You've already been made aware that there are GLs who have been at it a lot longer than Hal, Kyle, Guy and John, yet have been surpassed. As stated above GLs are not created equal, and they do not develop equally.
Kyle Rayner's very existence disproves that. Rookie Kyle faced off against Parallax Hal Jordan.
You're the one making the claim that goes against the observed.
You're the one that needs to provide proof positive for your claim.
Punisher is not a Kyle. He is not a Hal. He is not a Guy. He is not a John.
But regardless of what anyone tells you, people who know the GLs better than you, people who know the GLs better than me, you will keep arguing and arguing and arguing for Punisher. And then say that you don't think he will win but "will go very far."
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Strawman fallacy. We know for certain that all GLs are not created equal.
Rubbish. The fact that GLS are not equal doesnt mean that people cant get better over time with practice. Apparently though im supposed to beleive that Xmarksthespot could beat the Thing in 1 year or 1 day.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're stating that Punisher with a hundred years time will become a top ten GL.You have nothing to base this upon except a false premise that there's some sort of exponential correlation to time with effectiveness of GL rings for anyone and everyone who gets one, and that there's no plateau or that the plateau is equally high for all GLs.
You've already been made aware that there are GLs who have been at it a lot longer than Hal, Kyle, Guy and John, yet have been surpassed. As stated above GLs are not created equal, and they do not develop equally.
Kyle Rayner's very existence disproves that. Rookie Kyle faced off against Parallax Hal Jordan.
You're the one making the claim that goes against the observed.
You're the one that needs to provide proof positive for your claim.Punisher is not a Kyle. He is not a Hal. He is not a Guy. He is not a John.
Ok let me be specific. I am going to stcik my neck out and think that he could become one of the best im not sure if thats top ten but lets put it this way if GLs were MA he could be second tier or third tier. I can settle for at least mid-tier
The fact that some GLs cant reach Kyle level does not prove anything because for starters I stated that I think it would be unlikely to reach Kyle level so we can forget about Kyle. However that doesnt mean that they have not been other GLS that get better over time they just didnt reach Kyle level. Hell im sure there are some rookie Gls that got better and didnt remain at that level. Furthermore as far as im concerned he has one of the best willpowers in the universe because more powerful characters have displayed less willpower. I dont think that somehow the aliens in the DCU are especially righteous so im assuming that he would be one of the best.
You are also claiming that you can beat Thing with a GL ring in 1 year and not providing any evidence. You hypocrite.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Rubbish. The fact that GLS are not equal doesnt mean that people cant get better over time with practice.
Sinestro had the ring for decades longer than Hal did but they still ended up as roughly equals. Inherent talent is much more important than practice. You have no way of proving that Frank has such inborn talent.
I didn't say that GLs can't improve.
That doesn't mean that all of them rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder. That doesn't mean Punisher will rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder. That certainly doesn't mean he'll become anywhere near the likes of the major Lanterns. You've yet to even show that Punisher has all the requisite innate qualities to even wield the ring. And you've shown nothing to imply he'd improve sufficiently to rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder.
Also lulz at taking my claim of being able to beat the Thing (with a year was what was referred to actually) so seriously. I can kick Batman's ass too. What evidence do you want me to provide? Construct making via teh interwebs?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I didn't say that GLs can't improve.That doesn't mean that all of them rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder. That doesn't mean Punisher will rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder. That certainly doesn't mean he'll become anywhere near the likes of the major Lanterns. You've yet to even show that Punisher has all the requisite innate qualities to even wield the ring.
Also lulz at taking my claim of being able to beat the Thing (with a year was what was referred to actually) so seriously. I can kick Batman's ass too.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I didn't say that GLs can't improve.That doesn't mean that all of them rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder. That doesn't mean Punisher will rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder. That certainly doesn't mean he'll become anywhere near the likes of the major Lanterns. You've yet to even show that Punisher has all the requisite innate qualities to even wield the ring. And you've shown nothing to imply he'd improve sufficiently to rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder.
Also lulz at taking my claim of being able to beat the Thing (with a year was what was referred to actually) so seriously. I can kick Batman's ass too. What evidence do you want me to provide? Construct making via teh interwebs?
Do it.
Make a construct travel along mai intahweb connection and hit me in the face.
I dare you.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Sinestro had the ring for decades longer than Hal did but they still ended up as roughly equals. Inherent talent is much more important than practice. You have no way of proving that Frank has such inborn talent.
1. The fact that some people have inborn talent, still does not prove that some people can cath up to a certain level. As I stated I dont think he will be as good as Kyle but I think he can be one of the best and at least mid-tier.
2. My proof is that he has one of the best willpowers in the MU. In the fcat that alot of heroes and aliens cant take the stuff he has to deal with. Since I dont think DC characters are especillay rightoeous im going to assume that this is the case in the DCU. to. 131
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I didn't say that GLs can't improve.That doesn't mean that all of them rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder. That doesn't mean Punisher will rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder. That certainly doesn't mean he'll become anywhere near the likes of the major Lanterns. You've yet to even show that Punisher has all the requisite innate qualities to even wield the ring. And you've shown nothing to imply he'd improve sufficiently to rise above the level of Superboy-Prime fodder.
I already explained that he has one of the best willpowers in the MU and I dont see how DCu is different.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Also lulz at taking my claim of being able to beat the Thing (with a year was what was referred to actually) so seriously. I can kick Batman's ass too. What evidence do you want me to provide? Construct making via teh interwebs?
You were implying that being able to use the ring is relatively easy and were comparing your willpower to Franks. Yeah you could actually you could be describing your pain threshold for starters but obvoulsy it would be nothing like Franks. I do have proof that Frank has will power neccesary.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
2. My proof is that he has one of the best willpowers in the MU.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Lack of value for one's life doesn't imply willpower. Unless you think suicide bombers are incredibly strong willed people, and not just stupid desperate gullible kids.
Originally posted by Soljer
1. Its not just about killing yourself its his pain threshold so thats one part of the argument.
2. your assuming that all people that kill themselves arent doing it because they believe they are doing the right thing and it takes alot of guts to do it. you might not value your life but that doesnt mean you gut the guts to blow yuourself up and put yourself through intense pain.
So the post doesnt neccesarily prove anything.
Originally posted by Soljer
Having a high pain threshold has nothing to do with willpower.I've fought with intense bouts of masochism on several occasions. Doesn't mean I'm gonna be creating oblivion anytime soon.
It has nothing to do with willpower if you're a masocist, that example does not apply to Frank, terrible reasoning he does what he does because he thinks it right not because its "fun". Eating shit doesnt take willpower if you already like it.
Im bettng you dont do surgery on yourself on a regular basis.
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Can we go back to franks will power is one of the best in marvel based on what?
Based on the fcat that if characters with superpowers has the same powerset is Frank that would not be able to do what he does (savage beating does surgery on himself regularly).
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It has nothing to do with willpower if you're a masocist, that example does not apply to Frank, terrible reasoning he does what he does because he thinks it right not because its "fun". Eating shit doesnt take willpower if you already like it.Im bettng you dont do surgery on yourself on a regular basis.
Based on the fcat that if characters with superpowers has the same powerset is Frank that would not be able to do what he does.
You gonna give me some example's of these feat's of will power I honestly want to know.