Kain vs. Shinnok

Shinnok, Fallen Elder God
YouTube video
YouTube video

Fight:
Shinnok w/(real) Amulet vs. Kain at the end of Defiance w/Purified SouL Reaver
Battlefield: The place shown in the second video with Liu kang

at the end of defiance? heavens above lord

this guy better be tough, whats Shinnoks best powers and feats with this amulet, he doesnt seem like an opponent at all, more of a gnat, can he destroy worlds and such?

He and Rayden almost destroyed all of Earthrealm so...yeah.
And end of Defiance Kain is far from unbeatable.

not that far, he becomes conceptual, he is the direct guardian to what the pillars embody, time, death etc etc, he has control over those concepts, he would just make Shinnock die and that would be the end of the battle

make it pre-post defiance Kain and then we may have a fight, but any kain is undefeatable unless you take away scion status or reduce it, because he will always come back through the fact time is immutable for him

but this guy only destroys Earthrealm? he wouldnt touch post defiance kain, pre-post he may be able to wiggle about a bit with, but you need more than Shinnock, add the rest of the Mortal Kombat cast, infact no that would make it easier, maybe...hmm....add infact just make it pre-post defiance kain and it should be a fight for a few moments before kain freezes the guy in time, rips out his soul, imprisons it in the blade or drains Shinnoks blood if he has any (he must do he splatters good enough in the games) to gain his powers.

not that far, he becomes conceptual, he is the direct guardian to what the pillars embody, time, death etc etc, he has control over those concepts, he would just make Shinnock die and that would be the end of the battle

A. He never used his power over Time or Dimension or Nature or any of that. We don't know his limits with it so it's not valid in a debate.
B. Shinnok is immortal.

but this guy only destroys Earthrealm? he wouldnt touch post defiance kain, pre-post he may be able to wiggle about a bit with, but you need more than Shinnock, add the rest of the Mortal Kombat cast, infact no that would make it easier, maybe...hmm....add infact just make it pre-post defiance kain and it should be a fight for a few moments before kain freezes the guy in time, rips out his soul, imprisons it in the blade or drains Shinnoks blood if he has any (he must do he splatters good enough in the games) to gain his powers.

A. Kain isn't even close to destroying a dimension like Shinnok did.
B. Kain can't freeze time, only slow it.
C. Shinnok's soul is far older and more powerful than anything the Reaver ever came close to being able to absorb.

Originally posted by IdiotGod
A. He never used his power over Time or Dimension or Nature or any of that. We don't know his limits with it so it's not valid in a debate.
B. Shinnok is immortal.

A. Kain isn't even close to destroying a dimension like Shinnok did.
B. Kain can't freeze time, only slow it.
C. Shinnok's soul is far older and more powerful than anything the Reaver ever came close to being able to absorb.

A1. its a conceptual link, it means there is no limit, the concept is his toy

B1. So is Kain, in every way possible to be immortal, but Shinook would die if kain wished it so

A2: Kain with dimensional conceptual control would be able to do what he likes with dimentional voids, close them off, or use the concept of energy to just fill the space of a dimension

B2: he can only slow it with the blood reaver emblem, and that was a gameplay limit, the limit is not known in canon, however i was talking about conceptual kain, who has the concept of Time at his call

C1: The reaver has never been stopped to absorb a soul, once its impaled and swallows the soul youve had it, also show me the power of Shinnocks soul please, not Shinnock, his soul, what soul destroying attacks has he survived? what defenses does he have?

Kain would just regulate Shinnocks magic to zero and Shin will be powerless

A1. its a conceptual link, it means there is no limit, the concept is his toy

This never happened with any of the other Guardians. No Limits Fallacy is not allowed in debates.

B1. So is Kain, in every way possible to be immortal, but Shinook would die if kain wished it so

No he wouldn't.

A2: Kain with dimensional conceptual control would be able to do what he likes with dimentional voids, close them off, or use the concept of energy to just fill the space of a dimension

No feats, No Limit Fallacy, wrong.

B2: he can only slow it with the blood reaver emblem, and that was a gameplay limit, the limit is not known in canon, however i was talking about conceptual kain, who has the concept of Time at his call

Yay for conceptual Kain
I'm using factual Kain.

C1: The reaver has never been stopped to absorb a soul, once its impaled and swallows the soul youve had it, also show me the power of Shinnocks soul please, not Shinnock, his soul, what soul destroying attacks has he survived? what defenses does he have?

Well, for one, he is the ruler supreme of a dimension full of souls. He has been defeated twice and both times the victor was unable to kill him or do anything to his soul.

Originally posted by IdiotGod
This never happened with any of the other Guardians. No Limits Fallacy is not allowed in debates.

No he wouldn't.

No feats, No Limit Fallacy, wrong.

Yay for conceptual Kain
I'm using factual Kain.

Well, for one, he is the ruler supreme of a dimension full of souls. He has been defeated twice and both times the victor was unable to kill him or do anything to his soul.

The other guardians documented were the following that reduced all their powers in comparison to kain:

Human: The pillars were built to channel conceptual power for Vampires not humans

the guardians were gaining the small amount of power they had through their link with the balance guardian, who also regulated their power and could make them weak if she so wished because she regulates magic

problem is, Kain regulates because he is the balance guardian, he is a vampire, meaning he is meant for the pillars, he has links to all other conceptual powers and is the scion of the pillars which gives him the full power of the concepts, he is not going to regulate his own power and he doesnt have to link with anyone to reduce his power, furthermore, he has his full soul back.

seems youve got a lot to learn about the Guardians and about kain

he would, someone with control over the very concept of death would snuff Shinnock, saying kain could not would be the same as saying "Death" out of Marvel couldnt kill Shinnock, ime quite sure she can

ime not using no limits as a fallacy, he is the conceptually controller, he would not have a limit, who is giving him this limit other than you? he regulates his own power, and has links to all the concepts full power. Although if you want feats, then dont use this conceptual kain....as you said the kain AFTER Defiance, which is the conceptual one, your logic is both broken by asking for feats for a character after a game which is foolish anyway.

erm factual kain? thats a lame argument incredibly, what do you call a fact? your definition of a "fact" must be very peculier, what facts can you go by then, heres the facts:

Kain controls concepts, Kain is immortal and cannot be killed, kain has 101 (exageration, hes basically got more than i wish to list) powers he can use to defeat this lame @ss fallen Elder God

but going by actual feats (hehe see what i did there) hes never actually survived directly a sou destroying attack? did they try to take his soul? show me if your answers are yes please

heres what will happen, ill use the pre-post defiance kain, conceptual is more powerful than you seem to be able to understand and by asking for feats from a character at the end of a game whos powers are completly diffrent by then, is logically broken.....this is more fair...sort off:

Kain shields, soul wracks, Shinnocks soul gone, Kain replaces it, takes the replacement soul out, Shinnocks body rots into nothingness, the end.......
to add insult to injury he could imprison Shinnocks soul in the blade, the guy can be as immortal as he likes in there

seems its not so fair afterall lol.......

Considering about 90% of your post's points are speculation...

Anyway, I don't know enough about Shin to decide.

its not more speculation really than it is to belive Mr fantastic could make a modern day toaster with materials, even if he has not done it

do you not belive Mr fantastic could do so?

also no, not 90% speculation, a more probable percentage is 60% since most of the post is telling facts of what has happened

but its not real speculation, its just logic as in 2+2=4, Conceptual power+Kain=Conceptual Kain etc etc

So...Shinnok destroys Kain. Kain can't destroy dimensions but Shinnok can.

Originally posted by Pyron_is_God
So...Shinnok destroys Kain. Kain can't destroy dimensions but Shinnok can.

You are using "A can but B can not logic"?

Almost as lousy an argument as "A > B > C logic".

No, it's a feat of power.
If Character A can blow up planets but Character B can't, Character B loses. Unless Character B is made out of A's weakness or some other variable.

Or if Character B has other advantages that grants him victory against Character A. Say, for example, speed? Or other powers.

Well, both Shinnok and Kain can teleport so speed means nothing.
Kain has nothing except maybe TK but that's not enough to overcome Shinnok.

He has a sword that with one strike drains Shinnok of his soul. That is the difference here 🙂

Shinnok's soul has survived longer than the planet Nosgoth has existed and couldn't be destroyed by all of MK's Elder Gods or the Netherrealm.

MK's Elder Gods are soul eaters?

They don't eat them but they could destroy them.

Shinnok is a fvcking queer that wants to have bum sex with Taven. Kain beats the sh1t out of Shittock.